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| Topic: Arizona Headlines... | |
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I just stopped in to say HI.. lmao didn't even realize..
Anyway (((Rose, Rob))) |
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lol dragon...you assume way too much...you can hear them while the nurse etc helps them fill out paperwork and they don't have (not just not know) SS# or visas not to mention i know people on border patrol and people that work in the hospitals. i used to do medical billing. i have seen it first hand and know people dealing with it first hand. you sit behond a desk and read the surveys etc that fit your thinking. my best friend in HS was mexican and would be (and has been) saying the same as me. he had been in the US a year before we became friends....him and his family did it the right way and got the work visa for the dad and visas for the other kids and worked to get citizenship. I don't read surveys to know what I know. You still cannot KNOW you are surrounded by illegals when at the hospitals. You assume too much there. My best friend in school was also mexican and they also did things legally, so should we not both assume that many do? The issue here is not to hate them, place them in a place of less human than us. The issue here is to stop employing them, reinforce the borders, etc..... Not have hate fests, they are struggling to live too, we have to recognize the human struggle. But I do believe we should be doing something about the employers who employ them and then reiforcing our borders to make us more safe. ok...now YOU are assuming. YOU used the word surrounded...NOT ME. and yes...employers who hire them need to be held more accountable. but do NOT dare accuse me of hating them. I feel for them because their country either can't or won't do something...but why should we???? those that do the legal correct thing...i have no problem with...i have a problem with those that don't pay taxes but get free education....medical etc funny...even your beloved Clinton sees a problem in texas... again...do NOT DARE ACCUSE ME OF HATING. i hate the problem...not the people |
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if the presidential candidates say there is a problem and want to fix it, then....
a. there IS a problem (like i have been saying) b. they are lying to only get votes c. you have some information that they don't seem to have. try seeing what i have seen first hand (without putting words in my mouth) about this and many other things. come live in a border town for a while |
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if the presidential candidates say there is a problem and want to fix it, then.... a. there IS a problem (like i have been saying) b. they are lying to only get votes c. you have some information that they don't seem to have. try seeing what i have seen first hand (without putting words in my mouth) about this and many other things. come live in a border town for a while You assume I have never been to a border town, etc... You don't know me. I am going on what is said here, if you do not hate the people good. It is a human problem with humans involved. We ALL need to remember that part. It really comes down to we need to stop employing them here and then they will stop coming here for the employment. And securing our border SHOULD HAVE BEEN of utmost importance after 9/11 but the great baby shrub had more important matters then our safety. |
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if the presidential candidates say there is a problem and want to fix it, then.... a. there IS a problem (like i have been saying) b. they are lying to only get votes c. you have some information that they don't seem to have. try seeing what i have seen first hand (without putting words in my mouth) about this and many other things. come live in a border town for a while You assume I have never been to a border town, etc... You don't know me. I am going on what is said here, if you do not hate the people good. It is a human problem with humans involved. We ALL need to remember that part. It really comes down to we need to stop employing them here and then they will stop coming here for the employment. And securing our border SHOULD HAVE BEEN of utmost importance after 9/11 but the great baby shrub had more important matters then our safety. since you feel i am assuming...i will ask you have you lived in a border town or state??? or just visited???? because there is a difference. but do not EVER assume i hate people. i hate the situation. explain how clinton sees the problem i have been arguing with you about???? i have been argeeing that laws should be harsher on the employers that hire them. you keep talking however about the humanity but yet want the employers to stop hiring them and tougher border control. how will these people survive if they can't get jobs or come into our country???? where is the humanity there? |
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Lady I have lived on my own since I was 16. I lived in a tent by the river outside of flat river, missouri, and rode a bike to work 100 hours a week at a place called Dix Greenhouse in Bonne Terre, Mo. My wage was a farm wage of 3.85 an hour with no o.t. I didn't cry, whine, or steal, I did what was right and made my own way. As an adult I have been laid off from a very good job, and got two fulltime jobs to make up for the wages that I lost. I moved on, and clawed my way to the top. Do not attempt to preach to me about crisis, I have lived it, and never once took a hand out. A real man, or woman will make whatever scarafices need to be made when the crap hits the fan. Stealing from one person to give to another in a pretense of help does not make it justified ROFL..wow Rob, if all that is true...no wonder we locked horns so hard!   
When we got into it, I seriously meant it as a joke in the thread. Then you shot out at me in e-mail and the fight was on. But now that I see a bit of your background, I see why. Looks like we both are fighters in this world with very simular backgrounds. I too was out on my own at 16, not that I had to, but was simpyl ready to. At 16 went through a flood back in Tulsa (yep we were state neighbors) and lost everything. never asked not received any "handouts" I just worked that much harder. On a long distance move, had a truck and trailer fire many years back, lost everything except the clothes on my back..even my wallet with ID and cash was sitting on the dash. Talking about starting from scratch...i had prayed and asked God for a "fresh start"...well, He gave me one! 
Again, no handouts, never even thought to ask. I just had to pick myself up by the bootstraps and move on. Nothing has ever been given to me in my life..I have earned everything I ever had. And I think myself a better man for it. I'm 42 now and semi-retired. So sounds like we have very simular backgrounds and at least for that part you have my respect. Could say, if we ever did actually have a fight, we should at least sell tickets, cause it would be one hell of a fight with two people as determined as we are. 
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Edited by
Dragoness
on
Tue 04/29/08 04:01 PM
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Yellow, isn't it funny that you have been arguing with yourself because all I have pointed out is the hate progression of these type of conversations. The generalizations that are made are part of the hatemonger ALL welfare recipients are ....... ALL illegals are ....... are hatemongering statements. Whenever we generalize our fellow humans into role of less then us it is hatemongering. Generalizations are more than generally WRONG because all people of the same background, culture, economical stand, etc.... are not the same. Generalizations are the method of the hatemongers to bring fear and loathing to the masses. If people would question it, instead of taking it as gospel there would be less hatred in the world. The problem with illegals is we hire them here. That is what brings them here and what keeps them here.
I lived in Falfurrias Tx and attended school there. Also lived in Longview Tx, and Crockett, Tx. |
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Yellow, isn't it funny that you have been arguing with yourself because all I have pointed out is the hate progression of these type of conversations. The generalizations that are made are part of the hatemonger ALL welfare recipients are ....... ALL illegals are ....... are hatemongering statements. Whenever we generalize our fellow humans into role of less then us it is hatemongering. Generalizations are more than generally WRONG because all people of the same background, culture, economical stand, etc.... are not the same. Generalizations are the method of the hatemongers to bring fear and loathing to the masses. If people would question it, instead of taking it as gospel there would be less hatred in the world. The problem with illegals is we hire them here. That is what brings them here and what keeps them here. I lived in Falfurrias Tx and attended school there. Also lived in Longview Tx, and Crockett, Tx. lol i love how you change things. i have been arguing with YOU because you don't seem to think it's a big deal when your own party running for presidency sees what i have been saying and want to do something. you keep skirting everything you don't want to answer. like...can't it be hatemongering to so they can't get jobs or come into the country like you want???? you generalize alot yourself. how about answering how you don't think it's a probelm but Clinton sees it????? and maybe i am talking to myself because you always seem to be a broken record and choose what you want to answer or change the subject |
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Way more citizens fraud the welfare then illegals do. does that make any sense???? illegal is illegal implying fraud, lying etc. what about those that get free medical???? They do not get free medical. If they go to a county hospital needing emergency care the hospital has the choice of serving them or not. But they get no medical from us otherwise. You would be surprised at how many of them actually pay their bills. I have seen it so I know. The hospitals bill them just like they do us and they actually pay. This is because someone here has illegally employed them here. you're right...ALL you were doing was arguing hatemongering... (sarcasm). most illigeal immigrants get paid very little but is alot in their country....how are they going to pay medical bills????? their are some that do i'm sure....but how do you bill someone who is here illegally???? again...the term ILLEGAL. i'm not arguing about that employers should have harsher punishments. but there are some that come over to have their kids in the hospitals so they can be US citizens. |
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Yellow, isn't it funny that you have been arguing with yourself because all I have pointed out is the hate progression of these type of conversations. The generalizations that are made are part of the hatemonger ALL welfare recipients are ....... ALL illegals are ....... are hatemongering statements. Whenever we generalize our fellow humans into role of less then us it is hatemongering. Generalizations are more than generally WRONG because all people of the same background, culture, economical stand, etc.... are not the same. Generalizations are the method of the hatemongers to bring fear and loathing to the masses. If people would question it, instead of taking it as gospel there would be less hatred in the world. The problem with illegals is we hire them here. That is what brings them here and what keeps them here. I lived in Falfurrias Tx and attended school there. Also lived in Longview Tx, and Crockett, Tx. lol i love how you change things. i have been arguing with YOU because you don't seem to think it's a big deal when your own party running for presidency sees what i have been saying and want to do something. you keep skirting everything you don't want to answer. like...can't it be hatemongering to so they can't get jobs or come into the country like you want???? you generalize alot yourself. how about answering how you don't think it's a probelm but Clinton sees it????? and maybe i am talking to myself because you always seem to be a broken record and choose what you want to answer or change the subject I have stayed on task for my point the whole time and that is that they receive welfare is inaccurate, that they are the only people who do not pay their hospital bills is inaccurate, etc.... So you have basically been arguing with yourself if you say that I said the issue is not a problem because I never said that. Show me where I said that the issue was not a problem??? I said the problem is that we hire them here and that brings them here and keeps them here. I said that information provided by some on here was inaccurate. And it is. I said that generalizing a certain type of person, welfare recipient or illegal is hatemongering and should not happen. Where did I say Clinton's ask for help was inaccurate? I am not arguing here, you are. I know what I say is accurate because I am coming from personal knowledge. |
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Way more citizens fraud the welfare then illegals do. does that make any sense???? illegal is illegal implying fraud, lying etc. what about those that get free medical???? They do not get free medical. If they go to a county hospital needing emergency care the hospital has the choice of serving them or not. But they get no medical from us otherwise. You would be surprised at how many of them actually pay their bills. I have seen it so I know. The hospitals bill them just like they do us and they actually pay. This is because someone here has illegally employed them here. you're right...ALL you were doing was arguing hatemongering... (sarcasm). most illigeal immigrants get paid very little but is alot in their country....how are they going to pay medical bills????? their are some that do i'm sure....but how do you bill someone who is here illegally???? again...the term ILLEGAL. i'm not arguing about that employers should have harsher punishments. but there are some that come over to have their kids in the hospitals so they can be US citizens. Well and here if you knew enough about their culture of living you would know that they support one another. That is how they have the money to live and pay bills. They deal in cash only so they cannot run up debt, they will share living quarters to lessen cost, they share meals lessens cost, etc.... They do not have government to turn to for support here so they support each other that is how they do well for themselves. But if they had no jobs to hire them then they would not want to be here. |
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Yellow, isn't it funny that you have been arguing with yourself because all I have pointed out is the hate progression of these type of conversations. The generalizations that are made are part of the hatemonger ALL welfare recipients are ....... ALL illegals are ....... are hatemongering statements. Whenever we generalize our fellow humans into role of less then us it is hatemongering. Generalizations are more than generally WRONG because all people of the same background, culture, economical stand, etc.... are not the same. Generalizations are the method of the hatemongers to bring fear and loathing to the masses. If people would question it, instead of taking it as gospel there would be less hatred in the world. The problem with illegals is we hire them here. That is what brings them here and what keeps them here. I lived in Falfurrias Tx and attended school there. Also lived in Longview Tx, and Crockett, Tx. lol i love how you change things. i have been arguing with YOU because you don't seem to think it's a big deal when your own party running for presidency sees what i have been saying and want to do something. you keep skirting everything you don't want to answer. like...can't it be hatemongering to so they can't get jobs or come into the country like you want???? you generalize alot yourself. how about answering how you don't think it's a probelm but Clinton sees it????? and maybe i am talking to myself because you always seem to be a broken record and choose what you want to answer or change the subject I have stayed on task for my point the whole time and that is that they receive welfare is inaccurate, that they are the only people who do not pay their hospital bills is inaccurate, etc.... So you have basically been arguing with yourself if you say that I said the issue is not a problem because I never said that. Show me where I said that the issue was not a problem??? I said the problem is that we hire them here and that brings them here and keeps them here. I said that information provided by some on here was inaccurate. And it is. I said that generalizing a certain type of person, welfare recipient or illegal is hatemongering and should not happen. Where did I say Clinton's ask for help was inaccurate? I am not arguing here, you are. I know what I say is accurate because I am coming from personal knowledge. open your eyes... i ASKED you about clinton's statement. i never said they were the only cost...in FACT i have said that legals do it too. the way you seem to talk in here indicates it's not as big as people think. how do you bill them???? when they earn little but in their country is alot???? you also said the hospitals (which i even said non-private) can NOT refuse service. the doctors took an oath and they can be held liable. i have said there are people that abuse the system...and the laws of welfare should change. i have also asked WHY should our country have to pay through taxes for education and medical. how do illegals (note the term illegals) pay taxes????? paying taxes....they would be caught and deported. ILLEGAL is the key word |
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Would it be hatemongering to say all illegals are not citizens? What about all illegals drain resources? I say drain because at some point they are using our countries resources and not putting back in with taxes. There are places for them to go for medical and dental care. My friend is in dental school and she was actually thinking about working at a place that does dental work for illegals. Personally I am glad she changed her mind about that, but thats just me.
I don't have a problem with immigration as long as they get her legitimately. |
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Way more citizens fraud the welfare then illegals do. does that make any sense???? illegal is illegal implying fraud, lying etc. what about those that get free medical???? They do not get free medical. If they go to a county hospital needing emergency care the hospital has the choice of serving them or not. But they get no medical from us otherwise. You would be surprised at how many of them actually pay their bills. I have seen it so I know. The hospitals bill them just like they do us and they actually pay. This is because someone here has illegally employed them here. you're right...ALL you were doing was arguing hatemongering... (sarcasm). most illigeal immigrants get paid very little but is alot in their country....how are they going to pay medical bills????? their are some that do i'm sure....but how do you bill someone who is here illegally???? again...the term ILLEGAL. i'm not arguing about that employers should have harsher punishments. but there are some that come over to have their kids in the hospitals so they can be US citizens. Well and here if you knew enough about their culture of living you would know that they support one another. That is how they have the money to live and pay bills. They deal in cash only so they cannot run up debt, they will share living quarters to lessen cost, they share meals lessens cost, etc.... They do not have government to turn to for support here so they support each other that is how they do well for themselves. But if they had no jobs to hire them then they would not want to be here. don't assume I don't know how they live...I DO. but again you forget education and medical. that is another reason to come here. AGAIN i say that there should be tougher punishments for the employers. how does dealing in only cash not run up debt???? that makes no sense. people with bank accounts do not necessarily run up debt. dealing in cash is not why...they deal in cash because that is how the employers pay and to not get caught. has nothing to do with debt....people run up debt at hospitals etc whether they are legal or not |
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Yellow, isn't it funny that you have been arguing with yourself because all I have pointed out is the hate progression of these type of conversations. The generalizations that are made are part of the hatemonger ALL welfare recipients are ....... ALL illegals are ....... are hatemongering statements. Whenever we generalize our fellow humans into role of less then us it is hatemongering. Generalizations are more than generally WRONG because all people of the same background, culture, economical stand, etc.... are not the same. Generalizations are the method of the hatemongers to bring fear and loathing to the masses. If people would question it, instead of taking it as gospel there would be less hatred in the world. The problem with illegals is we hire them here. That is what brings them here and what keeps them here. I lived in Falfurrias Tx and attended school there. Also lived in Longview Tx, and Crockett, Tx. lol i love how you change things. i have been arguing with YOU because you don't seem to think it's a big deal when your own party running for presidency sees what i have been saying and want to do something. you keep skirting everything you don't want to answer. like...can't it be hatemongering to so they can't get jobs or come into the country like you want???? you generalize alot yourself. how about answering how you don't think it's a probelm but Clinton sees it????? and maybe i am talking to myself because you always seem to be a broken record and choose what you want to answer or change the subject I have stayed on task for my point the whole time and that is that they receive welfare is inaccurate, that they are the only people who do not pay their hospital bills is inaccurate, etc.... So you have basically been arguing with yourself if you say that I said the issue is not a problem because I never said that. Show me where I said that the issue was not a problem??? I said the problem is that we hire them here and that brings them here and keeps them here. I said that information provided by some on here was inaccurate. And it is. I said that generalizing a certain type of person, welfare recipient or illegal is hatemongering and should not happen. Where did I say Clinton's ask for help was inaccurate? I am not arguing here, you are. I know what I say is accurate because I am coming from personal knowledge. open your eyes... i ASKED you about clinton's statement. i never said they were the only cost...in FACT i have said that legals do it too. the way you seem to talk in here indicates it's not as big as people think. how do you bill them???? when they earn little but in their country is alot???? you also said the hospitals (which i even said non-private) can NOT refuse service. the doctors took an oath and they can be held liable. i have said there are people that abuse the system...and the laws of welfare should change. i have also asked WHY should our country have to pay through taxes for education and medical. how do illegals (note the term illegals) pay taxes????? paying taxes....they would be caught and deported. ILLEGAL is the key word They do pay taxes they buy all their goods, gas, etc... here that is paying taxes. Considering that most of the low income people get all their taxes back at the end of the year, they are paying the same taxes low income citizens do. But that is not the point, the point for me is to not take the human element out of the equation, we have irresponsible citizens who are just as bad and we ourselves cannot pass judgement on other humans simply for their nationality, not in good conscience anyway. I have not said that illegals are not a problem, I said to generalize them is a problem, they do pay taxes, they do pay hospital bills, they do live and work and struggle just like we do. That is my point in a nutshell. They are humans and should be regarded as such. They should not be victims of hatred, just like we should not. |
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Way more citizens fraud the welfare then illegals do. does that make any sense???? illegal is illegal implying fraud, lying etc. what about those that get free medical???? They do not get free medical. If they go to a county hospital needing emergency care the hospital has the choice of serving them or not. But they get no medical from us otherwise. You would be surprised at how many of them actually pay their bills. I have seen it so I know. The hospitals bill them just like they do us and they actually pay. This is because someone here has illegally employed them here. you're right...ALL you were doing was arguing hatemongering... (sarcasm). most illigeal immigrants get paid very little but is alot in their country....how are they going to pay medical bills????? their are some that do i'm sure....but how do you bill someone who is here illegally???? again...the term ILLEGAL. i'm not arguing about that employers should have harsher punishments. but there are some that come over to have their kids in the hospitals so they can be US citizens. Well and here if you knew enough about their culture of living you would know that they support one another. That is how they have the money to live and pay bills. They deal in cash only so they cannot run up debt, they will share living quarters to lessen cost, they share meals lessens cost, etc.... They do not have government to turn to for support here so they support each other that is how they do well for themselves. But if they had no jobs to hire them then they would not want to be here. don't assume I don't know how they live...I DO. but again you forget education and medical. that is another reason to come here. AGAIN i say that there should be tougher punishments for the employers. how does dealing in only cash not run up debt???? that makes no sense. people with bank accounts do not necessarily run up debt. dealing in cash is not why...they deal in cash because that is how the employers pay and to not get caught. has nothing to do with debt....people run up debt at hospitals etc whether they are legal or not My point there with the debt is that if you cannot run up debt then you have money to pay a hospital bill. If you live sparingly sharing housing and meals you have more money for paying an emergency hospital bill. If you cannot get a loan, get furniture on credit, get a car on credit, buy a house, etc... then you have the extra to pay a hospital bill. They buy their cars with cash, they buy everything with cash. That is the point there. |
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Way more citizens fraud the welfare then illegals do. does that make any sense???? illegal is illegal implying fraud, lying etc. what about those that get free medical???? They do not get free medical. If they go to a county hospital needing emergency care the hospital has the choice of serving them or not. But they get no medical from us otherwise. You would be surprised at how many of them actually pay their bills. I have seen it so I know. The hospitals bill them just like they do us and they actually pay. This is because someone here has illegally employed them here. you're right...ALL you were doing was arguing hatemongering... (sarcasm). most illigeal immigrants get paid very little but is alot in their country....how are they going to pay medical bills????? their are some that do i'm sure....but how do you bill someone who is here illegally???? again...the term ILLEGAL. i'm not arguing about that employers should have harsher punishments. but there are some that come over to have their kids in the hospitals so they can be US citizens. Well and here if you knew enough about their culture of living you would know that they support one another. That is how they have the money to live and pay bills. They deal in cash only so they cannot run up debt, they will share living quarters to lessen cost, they share meals lessens cost, etc.... They do not have government to turn to for support here so they support each other that is how they do well for themselves. But if they had no jobs to hire them then they would not want to be here. don't assume I don't know how they live...I DO. but again you forget education and medical. that is another reason to come here. AGAIN i say that there should be tougher punishments for the employers. how does dealing in only cash not run up debt???? that makes no sense. people with bank accounts do not necessarily run up debt. dealing in cash is not why...they deal in cash because that is how the employers pay and to not get caught. has nothing to do with debt....people run up debt at hospitals etc whether they are legal or not My point there with the debt is that if you cannot run up debt then you have money to pay a hospital bill. If you live sparingly sharing housing and meals you have more money for paying an emergency hospital bill. If you cannot get a loan, get furniture on credit, get a car on credit, buy a house, etc... then you have the extra to pay a hospital bill. They buy their cars with cash, they buy everything with cash. That is the point there. |
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they get paid lower than minimum wage and under the table...that is why they pay in cash. i pay taxes through buying things too...as well as taxes out of income. so they are only paying tax because they have to to get food, gas etc????? that is a drop in the bucket. most send a majority of their money to their families back home...that is why they live together etc. cash has nothing to do with whether or not someone can get in debt. how do you explain a pregnant woman about to give birth coming here to give birth???? how does she get billed???? the hospitals can't refuse to treat her. keeping them out of the sountry by border control and not giving them jobs...is the same haemongering as you are complaining about then. it's not hatemongering to think it's wrong for citizens to pay for illegals...which it is a problem. i never once said that citizens abuse the systems too. you are generalizing in here. you put words in my mouth like surrounded. they have to support their families on less than minimum wage...do you realize how much it costs to buy a car or hospital bills??????
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well said rob...i actually didn't think of that point. i wonder who paid for the medical, repairs etc from the accident in the OP
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they are paid less than minimum wage. they ive together so they can send money home and because they can't afford rent. they still have to pay the same amount for food, water, clothes, etc.....where do they save all this money with very little money to pay the hospitals or buy cars etc????? they don't pay cash to keep from being in debt. you are missing the key word ILLEGAL
1il·le·gal Pronunciation: \(ˌ)i(l)-ˈlē-gəl\ Function: adjective Etymology: Middle French or Medieval Latin; Middle French illegal, from Medieval Latin illegalis, from Latin in- + legalis legal Date: 1538 : not according to or authorized by law : unlawful, illicit; also : not sanctioned by official rules (as of a game) it is a drain on the economy. |
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