It was not God that brought any of it.....Go back and read of Moses and Pharaoh.......God does not bring wrath upon man for no reason...He is not a vengeful God....You need to read and see this for yourself. And I do know God because I know this...plain and simple.

Then Perhaps the "wrath of God" is simply the "Law of Karma." Perhaps they mean the same thing. There is not God with wrath causing all this havoc, it is simply the law of Karma. It is a law put in place for this universe.

JB

Here are your posts about the wrath of God:

JMO I have always believed that Karma and the Golden Rule are one in the same....just called different things by different people. there maybe other names for them as well that I, admit, I am not aware of

its pretty silly they make kids say the pledge in the first place
get them while theyre young

This kind of rhetoric could never be from an all-wise supreme being and pretty much verifies that John was making things up or just repeating rumor.

Why? Because an all-wise supreme being would know that to not believe in something is not the same as rejecting it.

Most people don’t believe in Zeus. Does that mean then are rejecting him? Of course not! How can you reject something you don’t even believed ever existed in the first place?

The whole idea that to not believe in the Bible is to reject God is total hogwash. It’s just demagoguery created by the authors to try to scare people into believing it. If you don’t believe this God will be peeved at you. It’s a really underhanded tactic actually.

What most people don’t realize is that Christianity was in serious competition with the Greek religions (they weren’t considered to be mythologies at that time (early A.D.).

In fact, the Christians set up churches in Greece very near Greek holy places where the Greeks worshipped their Gods. And the Christians even embraced the Greek Gods to a point in order to capture an audience and convert them to a more Christian way of thinking.

The biblical texts evolved during that time. To believe that any of the gospels, or any other part of the Bible, wasn’t modified as it was transcribed and translated would be ludicrous.

People often accuse me of hating Christianity, but that’s utterly silly. That would be like accusing people of hating Greek Mythology just because they no longer believe it. I view Christianity no differently than I view Greek Mythology. It’s just more of the same. There’s nothing to hate. It’s just a myth.

How does this fit in with the topic?

Well, unless someone can prove that a God exists what business do they have to suggest that everyone should be made to say a pledge to God? To even include things like that in the lives of small children indicate to the children that we know something we honestly don’t know.

Why are we so anxious to deceive our children? Why not tell them the truth that we have no clue what’s going on and everyone is just guessing.

After all, would even a God want us to tell the truth.

If there is a God wouldn’t he be more pleased by my honest sincere confession that I can’t know that he exists, than he would be if I actually lied about knowing that he exists?

Does anyone really believe that God would want us to lie about anything? Even him???

To believe in a God that you can’t possible know exists is to live a lie. Is that what God wants from us? To live a lie, and to preach that lie to our children?

I don’t believe God would want that. If God wants us to know he exists he’ll show himself. Otherwise he clearly doesn’t want us to know. So why pretend that we do?

The biblical picture of God can’t be true because that is a picture who favors deception, hide & seek, and playing guessing games. A game-playing God who will become angry with those who guess wrong? I don’t believe God is like that at all. Why would God set things up so your salvation depends on a crap shoot?

..er.."feralcatlady" how can God bring wrath but yet God is not vengeful? ..so are you saying that God only brings nice good wholesome wrath that doesn't harm anyone ...er..I'm not sure that the parents of the first born of Egypt during the time of Pharo would agree with that accessment

ok I'm confused. Maybe I have misread some people. I know I have debated about this before...but where in America is someone forced to say the pledge? again, this is onyl a question for clarify. and are we not able to say "no, I don't want to say the pledge" and where can't the parents stand up for the kids about it?

grade school is the only place ive had to say it
didnt question it then its odd tho you couldnt start the day without the entire school reciting it

I agree it's said, but not forced. I spoke to my nephew just now (15 yrs old), he wasn't raised "christian", believes there is a God but not sure about all of it. He made the point that you aren't a "captive audience". I thought that was a good point. My son's school district hasn't said the pledge, as a school thing, since he was in 1st grade. They may have prayer groups and such where they do say the pledge. It's similar to teaching sex ed. If the parents don't want their child to learn that, then it's the parent's duty to say something. I hope no problem with it as a patriotic stand point, but I have no problem with omitting the "Under God" or changing the word of God to another deity or another word.

personally i think you could omit god and put in big bird for all i cared when i was saying
i remeber being excited learning it but reciting it everyday just made it part of the routine
just one of the many things you learn by saying out loud in grade school

curious though...the teachers didn't explain the pledge or your parents?

not that i know of ive always assumed that they had to say it to
i dont see how its an issue god's a pretty general term

i don't believe you should have to omit it. i'd rather those words just be removed. add them if you wish, but don't have a national pledge for all that bases loyalty for the nation on loyalty for the lord

I can understand that but until it is removed...then what?

...idle *****ing?

I don't want to step all over someone's belief in God, I just wonder about all of the contradictions. "God is loving, God is forgiving,God is angry, God's wrath will be upon those who do not obey or believe... then you say God is not vengeful.

Is wrath and vengeful different? Perhaps there is no emotion involved at all, perhaps God's acts are unfeeling or cold blooded.

I see contradiction and that is not the puzzle. The puzzle is when I see people who embrace the contradiction as if it makes sense.

***

As for a tiny child refusing to say the pledge... that is absurd. They are only children, they are at school, they do as they are instructed. They don't even understand what they are saying.

JB

When I consider a thing as being true, I would like it not to contradict itself. I would like to understand it intelligently, and not be told that I should have "faith" in what I don't understand and in what does not make sense.

turd

staying with the topic...do those schools not explain it to them in words they can understand? do the parents not explain them?

example of something else...my son came home when he was little and asked me about the N word that he heard. I explained to him the origin of it and that it is a derogatory term used that can be hurtful. it wasn't something he heard in class but from a kid. later on, he learn about american history and came home saying "wow mom, now I really get what you said". it was all a matter of not understanding words. if the schools don't explain the pledge then the parents should. I personally explain things even if the school has already taught it

I'm not sure if the law of Karma and the law of cause and effect are even the same thing. The golden rule, do unto others.. is a nice idea but it is not a law.

Laws are things that are automatic. If these laws are in place down to the quantum level there is no need for a wrathful or angry deity to dole out punishment to people for their deeds. The laws are in place and are automatic.

(Hence the wrath of God is just the law of Karma)

JB

JB

well that's a different topic, but I don't feel Karma is a law but to me the Golden Rule is. It's all in what someone believes