I actually already believe you!

I'm not sure that's necessarily true, as a generalization.

Usually, the man is the bread winner - historically because of social norms, and because women are hypergamous.

I think what you speak to is, a power dynamic that men usually had; therefor, men having the control of the relationship. But in my estimation, mother nature balanced this power by:

- women having the power to choose the mate.
Men hit on women, they have the privilege of accepting or refusing.

- men having the power to control the relationship. They are the ones expected to propose. They are also the ones that get to be the players.

I feel as though in your anecdotal perspective, there would have been inevitably resentment on both sides, had it played out long enough. It doesn't matter who ended it. But you're right, in that they would resent it, because they failed as a man - but you'd resent them too because chances are, you're looking for a man.

Proof!

I'd ask you what your point is.... but apparently you don't have one

Nine of the 10 richest women inherited their fortunes, either from fathers, husbands or in one case, mother.

This is on a big end of the scale - if you think that these women are doing on their own, you're delusional.

The fact that you brought this up, solidifies one of Goodguy's point on why men are reluctant to marry

Proud and pride....semantics. Means the same.
Yes, you are correct about the 7

Do we need one?

He's not wrong...

I think that the age is also a supporting factor. I think marriage is a young people's game. I feel that it's about building a life and a great foundation for making children.

At 52, there's not much left to build, and with having children, that door has been pretty much closed and locked. So what is left to marriage that a regular "shacking up" doesn't have?

And what does that leave men's purpose/reasoning for marriage, when all the truisms of Goodguy's explanation exists?

There's a huge difference in finding good in things and pride - just sayin

Lotsa good advice, Julie. But some shltty advice was slipped in. I like and respect you, that's why it pains me to have to point this out - but I think it's important to point this out...

- While I agree it's "cool" for a woman to be a virgin I don't necessarily think they should try to stay virgins. They should be finding a husband and partner to do life with, make babies and stay immortal. I think that's really important to stress, which brings me to my second point

- I don't think you should compromise virtues or values either... but I think they should be realistic. You were saying something about Mr. Perfect, when Mr. Perfect doesn't exist. Hell, Mr.Perfect for her, doesn't exist. Nobody is perfect, and if one thinks that they have no faults of their own, or that a relationship doesn't have it's trials - they are delusional

- Last one! I don't think there should be a carte blanche on "act on feelings" There should be a lot of logic used when making decisions. Feelings change by the hour or even hormone level with women. Logic never changes.

Damn patriarchy

yet you join the forums... ironic

Your ancestry....Didn't earn it - what exactly did you do?

Your children..... You think taking credit for someone else's accomplishments is a good thing?

Marsellus Wallace said it best "F*** pride. Pride only hurts, it never helps."

I find the most prideful people are the most narcissistic

Those wouldn't be remnants then, they're rooted.

If a worldly catastrophe were to happen, and things were back to where they were - it wouldn't even take a generation for those "remnants" to take over instinctually.

A submissive man, is no man at all. He's incompetent. The only thing that would qualify him as a man, is his chromosomes.

I don't eat for pleasure. If I did that, I'd be 500 pounds. I suppose your analogy is good for fat people - but it still doesn't solve the fact that at the end of the day, food will and does sustain the body.

That don't smell like campfires!

I think camping with people is an excellent way to get to know someone. There are no distractions and you can tell how a person deals with life by the way they camp

Everything that'd look good on my bedroom floor

Hardly an equal analogy. Food will still sustain you, even if you can't taste it.

Where I'll agree....is that a relationship without sex is not sustainable

Age is not just a number - it's a measure of lived experience....

A 30 year old with no kids has no idea what the it is to be a grandparent that his 55 year old lover would. That same 55 year old has already did the carefree party phase. They might entertain the idea for a day - but their days of benders are over. And as for dreams of starting a family - forget about it.

A 35 year old dude grinding, raising his value, owning his own home and trying to cut out a living for himself, has less in common than a 25 year old bimbo who hasn't really figured things out yet. She will have to in the next 5 years, so they may play along being naive. They would make the best mothers biologically, but fast forward to 45 and she's 35, there's a high probability that she will find herself bored and feel like she's missing something since she'll feel like gave herself up early. It will only be later, after the divorce, after banging a bunch of dudes that are just there for the cooch - that she realizes that nothing has really changed, and that the grass is only greener where you water it. She may never even realize that, it depends on how bright she is.

Perhaps a 75 year old with one foot in the grave might have more in common with his 55 year old counter part. But I'd think with this situation I'd be concerned that the younger one is looking for a payday. I can't imagine that a pair of wrinkly balls or tube sock knockers would turn anyone on, when they can have a the same version or even younger model. And I can't see changing an adult diaper or feeding pudding to a reduced mobile or cognitive person being a goal.

What about my dishes?