Right....cause attraction is tooootally the same thing as lusting after someone actively...uh huh....

It actually doesn't lead to that, any more than heterosexuality leads to premarital sex by force. Everyone has choice, and it's choices that God judges us by, not feelings we have.

Again, the scripture in question refers to an *act* toks, not a feeling or an attraction. This man has committed no crime you can accuse him of. He has no reason to repent.

I think you've been listening to faulty sources friend. Nowhere in the book of Revelations can this idea be derived from.

lol@ mark_the_lad. I like that name better. It suits me. I may have to change my alias slightly. =)

Glad to have helped at all. I wholeheartedly agree with your priest. It's fortunate that men, or in this case lads xD, like you and I are born in this day and age. Our reception might not have been so positive only sixty years ago.

I'm sorry, merely saying those feelings are wrong doesn't make them wrong; moreover, you have no scriptural basis for your claim. Perhaps there are some scriptures that condemn man going against the natural use of man and woman, but there is absolutely nothing in the scriptures that condemns homosexual feelings whatsoever.

And define genuine. The love David and Jonathan had for each other is precisely what many of these gay men and women feel for each other, the only difference being the manner in which that love is expressed (although not all that different at times, since those two kissed each other's necks).

You can't tell me that isn't genuine affection, bring me your beliefs and let's reason together, and I'll show you that there's nothing wrong with being attracted to members of your own sex, and that this man has nothing to repent of or feel bad about unless he breaks vows of chastity before marrriage.

I don't know any Catholics that do, but I know a large number of mormons who do. Honestly, I don't think there's anything wrong with those feelings. More importantly and relevantly, I don't think there's anything wrong with the full expression of those feelings in the bonds of matrimony.

How can it be wrong for two people with genuine love for another to express that love physically?

Are you sure about that? People have been accepting the notion of God, Christ and the Holy Ghost as being one in substance, without body, parts, or passions, as scripture, even though each of those characteristics were made up by the Council of Nicaea and the Council of Constantinople between 325-425 AD. That's roughly 1500 years. A huge portion of Christianity still holds to this idea even though none of these ideas are mentioned in the only set of books they believe to be infallible, namely, the Bible.

False ideas very easily withstand the test of time, if they are disguised with truth and perpetuated by ignorance or liars (well meaning or otherwise).

Lol, yeah I can agree to that. =p

Lol, something's lit a fire under your arse old man. Not sure what it is, but let me leave you one last reply to chew on before I leave you alone to your musings.

1. I don't sow wild oats or play women (though apparently you have). I've never had sex and won't until I'm married, I've never been disloyal to any girl I've committed to. I make lots of friends and choose from them.

2. You know what doesn't take years? Getting to know someone properly to the point where you know you want to commit to them. It takes most normal people several months to a year at times. Perhaps it's taken you years for reasons I can't fathom, but you being the aged sage would know better than I so I won't comment further.

3. You know what I know about loving someone in spite of their looks fading? All there f-ing is. It's not that hard to understand. And I've never read a book about relationships so my seeming a priori knowledge doesn't come from there. Perhaps, as inconceivable as this may sound- a person may know something without having to experience it. *gasp* Or my experience is something that, surprisingly, you haven't been able to guess at.


Since you're just responding to goad me at this point this is my last response to you friend. I wish you luck in pursuing love and trying your best to taunt men half your age.

cheers.

Some are and some aren't. That's what dating is to me. Getting to know a lot of different girls and getting serious with whoever I think is best. Seems logical to me.

Sigh, okay. Let's look at your comment one piece at a time shall we?

1. 'You've got a thread about how you should always be honest...' Wrong. I never said always be honest, not even the thread title says that. It clearly says it's *better* to be honest to everyone, which implies there are times when it's necessary to lie. And let's be clear here- I'm not talking about the crap that a lot of guys are thinking of when they mention lying. Let me give an example of what I call justified lying- an army is about to destroy your home and all your people but they don't know where to go to find them. They ask you, putting their entire faith in your answer. This is a situation where lying is not only justified, but necessary for the preservation of others. If you're lying just because you're trying to get out of something for yourself, the problem probably lies with *you*. If you're lying to save someone else in the sense previously mentioned, that's a different story.

2. '...get all of the ladies patting you on the back for understanding them so well and end up really saying that you don't date insecure women and you were only talking about the "good" ones anyway...' Huh? For starters, it's not my problem if people agree with me. As for the insecure part- so what? It's not like I angled this statement towards insecure women to begin with, it's a general idea, so I didn't mislead anyone. The idea that a woman is insecure if she asks how she looks though seems misleading to me. Everyone needs validation, and my point is that in this case in can be honestly given. The insecure part is an angle you superimposed onto the concept.

3. 'Your advice is useless.' Yes, it certainly is for those who sit at their computers and just complain about it.

4. 'You're starting off by assuming some perfect ideal' How is the notion of 'two good people trying hard to make a relationship work' a perfect ideal? The very statement suggests the opposite is true. And the idea that people who consistently love each other is a 'perfect ideal' is 21st century crock.

5. 'Get real man and give us some advice about how to relate to women that actually exist outside of the fiction novels you've been reading.' Okay, first of all the books I read are fantastic. Secondly, I didn't take these ideas from the Lord of the Rings trilogy believe it or not. If I did you can bet there'd be a lot more Victorian elements involved, and an angle focused on aesthetics more than relational work.

6. give us some advice about how to relate to women that actually exist outside of the fiction novels you've been reading.

Fine, you asked. Since the statement didn't work for you- here are some practical guidelines-


1. Love is not the most important factor in choosing a partner, it's about who's best for you. That means considering differences, common ground, educational disparities, age disparities, respective life circumstances, and after spending several months together, coming to the decision as to whether or not you want to be with that person, if you're willing to put up with the annoyances and baggage that come with them and love them anyway. Failure to do this is unfair to you and the other person.

2. Don't care what anyone thinks, including attractive girls. NO ARSE KISSING. Believe it or not, this will weed out incompatible people remarkably fast and land you with someone who will actually want to be with you long-term.

3. Don't be ego-centric, or a mooch so to speak. Be a giver in the relationship, or prior friendship. That means giving words of encouragement, going on adventures together, helping her out as needed with no asking, no thought even, of a reward, *listen* carefully to what she's saying and take interest in her ideas her thoughts, her dreams. Ask key questions like, what is your greatest fear? Your greatest source of happiness? Keep your word. But more broadly, give her your time, talents, and all that you can give without expecting a damn thing in return. Being wary that *she* isn't a mooch of course. Have to be wise...

4. When you love someone tell them, and tell them often. Say it to them, show them being caring for them, and by being above all- a trustworthy mate.

5. Don't. Move. Too. Quickly. Ever.

There's some key thoughts. That should be a sound platform for most folks on the dating scene. There's volumes more of course, but those mostly stand on the pillars of basic principles which are mostly represented here.

Cheers. =)

Don't knock it till you try it. =)

That's why I don't date insecure women. Prevention is always easier than a cure. =)

hehe, yeah, there's no escaping that one portion of the population it seems...

Well I agree that there are situations where lying is necessary in order to preserve a person where the truth might destroy them, but for the specific conundrum brought up in the OP that should never have to be the case.

'you just seem to be assuming that all women are good women.'I don't see where I made that assumption...but sure!

To your credit, however, this argument does operate under the assumption that the couple are both good people who are trying, I'll give you that.

As far as women taking advantage of guys, that's a separate issue that I'd treat separately, if at all.

And there absolutely is a guarantee that affection will flow naturally between two people who genuinely care for each other. Have you known two people who were honest, virtuous, served each other, told each other they love one another regularly, put each other first, turned to each other instead of apart over problems, and persistently, consistently were so over time who *didn't* love one another? That seems a bit more far-fetched than my conclusion.

See? ^^ case in point. Lol Ucheaa, it's true I don't read the dictionary that often. I read *books* and learn language contextually. You know, things like Les Miserables, The Count of Monte Cristo, several books of scripture, Little Big, Lord of the Rings, The Hobbit, The First Law Trilogy, and so on. It's why I almost never use jargon, and the absence of it is probably why every sentence of yours is drowning in it.

And I'm sorry, but touting God's authority and using it to express a superiority of opinion is not 'merely' explaining why she's difficult to understand. That's just plain bigotry.

Just so we're not mincing words any longer, let me make this abundantly clear to you-

"Bigotry is the state of mind of a bigot: someone who, as a result of their prejudices, treats or views other people with... *contempt* on the basis of a person's -opinion-...religion...

Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr. described bigotry in the following quotation: "The mind of a bigot is like the pupil of the eye; the more light you pour upon it, the more it will contract."

The prime example in your response to Jeannie being this: Your claim to be God (her opinion) is to say the least,weird and repulsive to any right thinking mortal (your contempt).God is seated in heaven,controlling the affairs of all the planets,not on a desk typing and posting (The religious disparity that fuels your contempt).

Your belief is not superior to others ucheaa, any more than your use of language is. And lording that non-superiority over people isn't going to help anyone. Tell me, when did Christ go out of his way to describe other's beliefs as outlandish while he was here? Can you think of one where he went out of his way to berate ordinary non-believing people for their point of view?

You may have noticed that the answer is no- he berated his own. He took the leaders of the *church* and his own disciples to task and leveled them to the ground with his words so he could save them.

I do remember one or two interactions Christ had with people outside his faith......but they involved healing. Not hurting.

Can we all watch the Shawshank Redemption after? xD