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I would agree.......but would like to point out that a lot of people "lie" in order to avoid pain.......instead of facing it. Any "liar" I have known continues in a cyle of lies because they refuse to suffer the pain........ It is only when you realize the truth that one truly understands what pain is all about....... Pain is a good thing, it lets u know something is wrong, but people in denial will not see that....so I'm not sure how lying to one self could be the "turning" point......it is when they stop lying and start living the truth. Yes... The turning point would be in that very moment when it is first recognized and truly acknowledged as untruth. Beyond this point, any attempt to re-enter into that state of untruth would bring MUCH greater pain. It would seem that this would naturally propel one into the direction of more truth and give greater courage to face and pass through the acknowledgment of one's own "error". Increased practice fosters increased courage. Then... there comes a point at which a great desire to share the logic of such a process comes forward. One may initially feel shy about it, but can not deny times when we clearly recognize it in others. This is a thrilling time. Ah, now I see more clearly what you were trying to convey........and I have to agree. I suppose that is why people must be "ready" to see the truth before they ever will. |
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Topic:
Just wondering
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I'm not full of hogwash when I say this, though some people would say so......simply because they are limited by their own preferences.
I'm more concerned about someone's ability to have a stimulating conversation. Their desire to grow and become "better". Their heart and how they treat those around them including complete strangers. Whether they are living their dream......or simply "existing". Those kinds of things. Yes, I need to be attracted to the person, but unless they are just absolutely ugly........those are the things that attract someone who thinks like me. |
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Topic:
Just wondering
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I can't see limiting myself because of something like that. Though I must admit, if it came to living together/marriage, it would depend on how much they were able to do for themself/how much support there was from others, etc. Just being honest. I have two children, and if I were with a man who needed me to do everything for him, and I got no support outside the immediate family.......it would certainly add a lot of stress to things. By no means am I saying this is ur case, as many people in wheelchairs are very self sufficient......just a rhetorical point.
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I would agree.......but would like to point out that a lot of people "lie" in order to avoid pain.......instead of facing it. Any "liar" I have known continues in a cyle of lies because they refuse to suffer the pain........ It is only when you realize the truth that one truly understands what pain is all about....... Pain is a good thing, it lets u know something is wrong, but people in denial will not see that....so I'm not sure how lying to one self could be the "turning" point......it is when they stop lying and start living the truth.
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Hmmmmmm, in denying true self, imo, U deny true growth. It is only when you begin to be honest with yourself that you begin to grow.....at least a little. However, you can not consciously deny what you are not aware of.........
I would not describe it as lying if you are not consciously aware of it not being the truth....It is when you know what the truth is, that it makes a difference, imo. (I'm not sure I am getting what you are saying, though, lol) |
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Topic:
out of mud??
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Not sure bout the whole "God" created anything........ but when our spirit/soul leaves our body, we do eventually turn to nothing but dust.......so in essence our bodies are indeed made of "earth" and..... "water".
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Topic:
Quantum mechanics' knowledge
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Topic:
Quantum mechanics' knowledge
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If I may........the "one" is not "one point of view" but ALL points of view simultaneously. As we have already covered, at least I thought it had been covered.......depending on the "point of view" you are looking at you can see things differently.........so; therefore, any conclusion you come to is not a matter of fact, and will change just by thinking of it from a different angle. We, in this (at least) 3-dimensional world, absolutely have the capacity the perceive from ever-changing vantage points. All of our ever-shifting combined angles comprise whole logic. Each "point of view" morphing freely to contribute to the whole. Oh, I wholeheartedly 100% agree..........we can/are capable, just a lot of people don't/haven't trained themself to be able to... My point was (I am sure u got it, though) was that it is the focus on specific points of view that are limiting......and anything that encapsulates the ALL would not/could not simply have one point of view.....but would be like the light of the sun...having every shade within one beam. |
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I myself don't follow the path(s) that believe in a Satan as a deity. If you have heard of the man, Anton Szandor LaVey, then you may know of his works, but I follow his the path he created. I believe in an inner expression of my personality and my own self indulgences. Those said "7 Deadly Sins" - Pride, Anger, Lust, Greed, Sloth, Envy, Gluttony - are all part of human nature. Now while we should all know by common sense how to control and limit these "sins", I find a balance in controlling/indulging in these, the very principles of human nature. Sure maybe I like to have things for myself or maybe I like what other people have, but that doesn't mean I won't help others out or compliment them on what they own either. All of us express anger in some form of another, again its human nature, why shun that as a sin? Now granted I'm not the guy that's going to fuel my anger and take it out on everything, I know my own limits on these. I'm in total agreement with you here. I think where the real problem comes into play is from religious people who act like being human is a sin. To even think of doing something is a sin. Those people are just sick. That's all there is to it. Life was meant to be enjoyed. There's no doubt about it. What a waste of creation if we're supposed to ignore all this stuff! Even in the Bible when God created the world he saw that it was "Good". So Eve ate a piece of fruit and now all of creation is "Bad"? I don't think so! I personally think religious fantatics are just idiots. That's what I think. 
You'll have to excuse me I felt the need to post before reading all the thread.....of which I will do after I post this. I do see ur points, and most are valid......... BUT if I may..... Yes, we are human...... Yes there are natural inclinations.........abstinence of good and healthy things is simply ridiculous.......but some of the "sins" mentioned are indeed unhealthy as there is not balance in Greed, greed is all consuming, otherwise it is not "greed" Lust, is all consuming, desiring something that is not urs to have......this does not benefit the self or individual in any way.....in a sense it is desiring to be another, or to have what another has......lust is not wanting something similar, wanting happiness for yourself, but thinking that in order to be happy you must have/take from another.......not healthy imo at all. lying (I added this one) is in essence denying your true self......and hiding from others. IMO, this is not healthy for the individual/self but is a way of not dealing with your own true desires...and not standing up for yourself and being yourself at all costs. I do not lie, not because I have some strong moral fiber, but due to my own pride.......it is below me to do so.....to lie would be to deny who I am and what I believe. If I have done something and others view it as wrong, and I do not....then why would I lie to appease them and deny myself..... If I do wrong and I feel it is wrong, than I have wronged myself, and therefore must atone to myself, usually by determining never to do it again. I could write more.........but I think you get the point. Being an individual, and loving yourself and your humanity isn't about "indulging" in "sin" but about being who you are and realizing who the "you" really is. We are not naturally liars....we lie because we feel pressure to conform. We do not naturally "lust" after what is not ours, we only do so because we are programmed to believe that what everyone else has is better than what we have.... Etc. Etc. |
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Topic:
Quantum mechanics' knowledge
Edited by
Plainome
on
Sun 09/14/08 10:12 AM
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All is one = alone??? Come on...human concepts to describe an energetic experience? If there is only one "point of view" or only one observer, then that "one" is alone.
If I may........the "one" is not "one point of view" but ALL points of view simultaneously. As we have already covered, at least I thought it had been covered.......depending on the "point of view" you are looking at you can see things differently.........so; therefore, any conclusion you come to is not a matter of fact, and will change just by thinking of it from a different angle. This "one" unlike our minds (though I think we can train them to be better at it) is able to "see" all things at once......there is no limitation as it is the "ego" and the "point of view" that we are viewing things from that limit us in the first place. BUT.....when that "point of view" or "ego" vision is not there..........you realize that NO conclusions can be drawn because no conclusion truly exists as it is based on a "point of view"........something you are no longer limited by. AND I CAN'T FIGURE OUT THESE DANG QUOTES!! (sorry, all better now, lol) |
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Topic:
Quantum mechanics' knowledge
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gotcha......
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Topic:
Quantum mechanics' knowledge
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In my view, u in and of urself are not everything, but part of what makes up everything.......which is only logical. I better just stop here, as I'm feeling like I'm talking in circles. We may very well see things the same, lol. I am not "everything" but am part of "everything". I have access to "all" and am connected to "all" and nothing within myself is lacking.
Ack, I just confused myself, lol. |
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Topic:
GOD, a sadistic tyrant ?
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I'm out too.........later all.
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Topic:
GOD, a sadistic tyrant ?
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and if you have ever read the bible before, you would know that God does in fact send you there. Duet 7:10 Absolutely. If an all-powerful God allows anyone to go to hell then he is sending them there. Period. Some people even say that God weeps when someone goes to hell. But that's absurd. Why would God be weeping? If the person deserves to go to hell there's nothing to weep about. If they don't deserve to go to hell then something's drastically wrong with the system. It's as simple as that. The idea that a God would allow any decent person to go to hell just because they didn't appease the arrogant Christians is the most asburd thing I can imagine. It's much more likely that the arrogant Christians would be the ones are their way to hell. Even Jesus said that there will be many who claim to know him but he will not acknowledge them. People think they can 'save' themselves just by claiming to be a born again Christian. But they don't have the power to do that. Who are they to tell Jesus who he will or will not 'save'? They are seriously kidding themselves when they start judging. In fact, Jesus said that we will be judged as we judge others. So if Jesus tells the truth, then the Christians are in some deep sh't. If your child became a prostitute or a murderer or a child molester etc. You would despise their actions but would still love the child that you created. The loss of what might have been or became of your child if they had only made the right discussions would be the thing that would break your heart and make you weep. Not to mention God knows what awaits us in hell...we only have an idea. If my child became a prostitute I would see it as her choice. I would wonder if it were due to a lack of money and out of necessity. I would wonder if she simply looked at it as a job.........I would not judge her, nor would I not be in her life anymore because she chose such a thing. If one or both of my children became child molesters, I would want to find them help as I believe it to be a psychological disorder, not necessarily a simple matter of choosing evil over good, but something that is deep seated that causes them to get sexually excited at the thought of another child. I would not judge them, or hate them, of kick them out of my life..........I would be concerned for them and try to keep them away from children. IF they became murderers I would wonder why?? What happened that made them feel that killing another was their only way out of something. I would not judge them for it, and would be by their side until I no longer could be. People who make these kinds of choices do so for reasons far beyond a desire to sin. What is sin?? Who decides what sin is, and if God created everything, he created sin then, no?? If he created sin, then he is capable of being in the presence of sin. As a matter of fact, one who creates can not create something that they do not identify with. So then, if you follow that logic, GOD KNOWS AND HAS SIN! Sin/Evil is the opposite of God. The Ying and Yang if you will. The balance. I believe God has everything in balance. God is Balance and Balance is God. Just as God is Love. Evil is hate Love is God. Is God the balance or is he the good?? You can't both be the balance and the good. And you are wrong, the opposite of evil............is TRUTH! Actually - the "absence" of truth is evil. It is a matter of opposites - but quantity and quality. ?? ur point was? |
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Topic:
GOD, a sadistic tyrant ?
Edited by
Plainome
on
Sat 09/13/08 03:26 PM
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Exactly the same................you aren't going to change my mind. I know what unconditional love is.............and what it is not. We have no clue what unconditional love is. Dont lie to yourself. Excuse me?!? You may not know or understand, but to claim that No one does, is to claim to know all..........and you don't. I have experienced it more times than I can count on one hand. It is probably the only truth in a world full of lies............. P.S. Everyone "lies" to themselves until they are capable of seeing the truth........but being aware of that fact is the first step.........maybe instead of judging whether I do, you should take a hard look at yourself. There are always conditions to love...their is no unconditional love here. No there isn't............or it isn't love. Anything that has conditions and is described as "love" is something else. The only true love that exists is a love that lets go and allows freedom. To love a stranger that you know nothing about........you must see them for what they truly are, I suppose if you consider that a "condition" but it is more of a mind condition than a condition on the other person. As I said, just because you have no idea as to what it is, doesn't mean it does not exist. AND I find it funny that one who claims to know Jesus, and the ONE TRUE GOD, doesn't know what true unconditional love is........but yet claims that is what his God offers to us.........Oh wait, I suppose it isn't unconditional, so then God is no different than humans.........so why can't we just be the gods?? Man does not know unconditional love...a warm and fuzzy for a stranger is not unconditional love. Yet you claim to know that God is love...........how do you know this? You are an expert on love now?? It isn't a warm and fuzzy feeling. Man is what gives definition to feelings........ How do you know this, under what authority?? Your own?? It is one thing to post your opinion, quite another to flat out call me a liar and tell me that my experiences are false..... The fact that you haven't experienced it tells me that you truly know nothing of "God" even the one you define, as being love and forgiveness. |
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Topic:
Quantum mechanics' knowledge
Edited by
Plainome
on
Sat 09/13/08 03:20 PM
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Are you one?? Yet you yourself have different functions. Your body is one body, but it has different parts. When I say one, I suppose I mean a whole with different pieces. As I've said before, my view on that is: the thing that I refer to when I say "I", does not have any "parts" or "components". It is not "made up of" anything. It is simply itself and nothing more. It is, for all practical purpose, not a "thing" at all, but more of a "potential" or an "ability". But even that is ascribing more to it than it actually is.
Just my viewpoint.
I'm even more confused, lol. Ok, so the "thing" isn't really a thing.......but you don't like the idea of being "one" because you would lose the "thing" that barely even exists?? I know I am probably way off what u are trying to say. To me, the One is like a family........it is all one family, being separate from it, doesn't make it not your family, you are still connected.............but you are much happier when the family is all together, and those lines are not there. I know not a good allegory, but it was the best I could think of. If everything is one, and all is there, there is nothing to be missed..........besides human attachment to things that do not truly exists OR wants for the same said things are what makes the "ego" (taking a break, I'm getting a headache) |
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Topic:
GOD, a sadistic tyrant ?
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NO he seems to think that only men can be emotionally stable.
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Topic:
Quantum mechanics' knowledge
Edited by
Plainome
on
Sat 09/13/08 02:52 PM
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Quite the contrary in my thinking.........you would not be alone, as everything is there with you.
Everything there? What is it? Is it you or something or someone else? If all is ONE, then it is just you. If it is just you then you are alone. If it is something or someone else, then it is not you, and if it is not you then all is not ONE. JB Are you one?? Yet you yourself have different functions. Your body is one body, but it has different parts. When I say one, I suppose I mean a whole with different pieces. I'm not sure that it means anything, I just know I have experiences "wholeness" and peace......and there is no self. There is no want, no need, no desire to pet a dog, or to seek anything out. It very well may have been a figment of my imagination.........but It could be the wholeness or the one....... Why do we wish to make contact with others......possibly because we know/feel that they are a part of us. Why do some believe in Karma or the threefold path?? Because in essence what you do to others/put out there is being done to yourself as well. You can not spew out hatred, unless you hate something about yourself. I dunno. I mean, I see your point...........but I've also experienced a lack of "ego" or "self" where there were no boundaries.......and all I can call it is Perfect Peace. P.S. I know nothing of the original topic, I have no formal training, what I know/feel I know is based on my experiences.....which is very little, lol. |
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Topic:
GOD, a sadistic tyrant ?
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Exactly the same................you aren't going to change my mind. I know what unconditional love is.............and what it is not. We have no clue what unconditional love is. Dont lie to yourself. Excuse me?!? You may not know or understand, but to claim that No one does, is to claim to know all..........and you don't. I have experienced it more times than I can count on one hand. It is probably the only truth in a world full of lies............. P.S. Everyone "lies" to themselves until they are capable of seeing the truth........but being aware of that fact is the first step.........maybe instead of judging whether I do, you should take a hard look at yourself. There are always conditions to love...their is no unconditional love here. No there isn't............or it isn't love. Anything that has conditions and is described as "love" is something else. The only true love that exists is a love that lets go and allows freedom. To love a stranger that you know nothing about........you must see them for what they truly are, I suppose if you consider that a "condition" but it is more of a mind condition than a condition on the other person. As I said, just because you have no idea as to what it is, doesn't mean it does not exist. AND I find it funny that one who claims to know Jesus, and the ONE TRUE GOD, doesn't know what true unconditional love is........but yet claims that is what his God offers to us.........Oh wait, I suppose it isn't unconditional, so then God is no different than humans.........so why can't we just be the gods?? |
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Topic:
Quantum mechanics' knowledge
Edited by
Plainome
on
Sat 09/13/08 02:32 PM
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It's just that the "god is all and all is god" theory is just as disturbing to me as the pure atheistic theory, for pretty much the same reason - that self-determinism is ultimately meaningless. What would be meaningful? Would a multitude of 'individual' spirits be more meaningful than a single all-encompassing consciousness that is capable of "dividing" itself even if only by illusion? If so, why? Why would a multitude of spirits be more meaningful than one all-encompassing consciousness? Because of individuality and self-determinism. For purposes of growth and sharing and most importantly, acknowledgment. I exist because others acknowledge that I exist. If you were invisible, and no one could see you, how happy would you be? Where is the joy in being one? Where is the joy in being alone? 
JB One Al + one = Alone If all is one, then the one is alone. Quite the contrary in my thinking.........you would not be alone, as everything is there with you. |
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