a fair question....
the christian god.... is he a loving god or the creator of evil ??

maybe the answer is in the holy bible..the word of the christian god...

The christian bible god not only admits he performs evil acts, but he takes credit for creating evil......

Isaiah 45:7
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Exodus 32:14
And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.

Joshua 23:15
Therefore it shall come to pass, that as all good things are come upon you, which the LORD your God promised you; so shall the LORD bring upon you all evil things.

Judges 9:23
Then God sent an evil spirit

1 Samuel 16:14
But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him.

2 Samuel 12:11
Thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will raise up evil against thee out of thine own house

1 Kings 9:9
...therefore hath the LORD brought upon them all this evil.

1 Kings 14:10
Therefore, behold, I will bring evil upon the house of Jeroboam
2 Kings 6:33 ...Behold, this evil is of the LORD;

2 Kings 21:12 Therefore thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Behold, I am bringing such evil upon Jerusalem and Judah, that whosoever heareth of it, both his ears shall tingle.

2 Kings 22:16 Thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will bring evil upon this place

2 Chronicles 34:24 Thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will bring evil upon this place, and upon the inhabitants thereof...

Nehemiah 13:18 Did not your fathers thus, and did not our God bring all this evil upon us, and upon this city?

Jeremiah 4:6 Set up the standard toward Zion: retire, stay not: for I will bring evil from the north, and a great destruction.

Jeremiah 6:19 Hear, O earth: behold, I will bring evil upon this people

Jeremiah 11:11 Therefore thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will bring evil upon them

Jeremiah 25:29 For, lo, I begin to bring evil

Jeremiah 35:17 Therefore thus saith the LORD God of hosts, the God of Israel; Behold, I will bring upon Judah and upon all the inhabitants of Jerusalem all the evil that I have pronounced against them:

Jeremiah 44:2 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; Ye have seen all the evil that I have brought upon Jerusalem, and upon all the cities of Judah

Jeremiah 45:5 ...behold, I will bring evil upon all flesh, saith the LORD:

Jeremiah 49:37 ...I will bring evil upon them, even my fierce anger, saith the LORD; and I will send the sword after them, till I have consumed them:

Micah 1:12 .... evil came down from the LORD

Micah 2:3 Therefore thus saith the LORD; Behold, against this family do I devise an evil

“Exodus 22:29-30 "You shall not delay to offer from the fullness of your harvest and from the outflow of your presses. The first-born of your sons you shall give to me. You shall do likewise with your oxen and with your sheep: seven days it shall be with its dam; on the eighth day you shall give it to me.”

Ezekiel 20:25-26 Moreover I gave them statutes that were not good and ordinances by which they could not have life; and I defiled them through their very gifts in making them offer by fire all their first-born, that I might horrify them; I did it that they might know that I am the LORD.”

These 4 lines define religion...
faith is foolishness (believing in an imaginary cosmic man-god, to whom you telepathically talk to)

god moves according to what we imagine is his word

religion is using god's word for foolish gain (look around, Joel Osteen, the Roman Catholic Church, this is the essence of religion)

god will not be mocked (fear this imaginary loving god will be upset and punish those who mock him)

This was an article on AOL today......

Southern Baptists Have Fewest Baptisms Since The 1950s And Are Losing Members
Baptisms in the Southern Baptist Convention have reached a 60-year low.
Last year, there were 332,321 baptisms in the church, which is 17,416 less than 2009. There was only one baptism for every 48 Southern Baptists in the country in 2010. Sixty years ago, there one baptism per every 19 church members. In eight out of 10 years, the number of baptisms performed have declined.
Baptism statistics are an important measure of the church's vitality because -- unlike Catholics and other Protestants that baptize infants -- its members practice "believer's baptism," in which the person being baptized has to make an active choice to join the faith.
The church's highest year of baptisms was 1972, when there was 445,725, but baptisms have largely plateaued since the 1950s.
Church attendance and Sunday school enrollment have also declined, according to the report from Nashville-based LifeWay Christian Resources. Membership, currently 16.3-million, is down for the fourth year in a row.
Donations to missionary work are down too. The denomination's International Mission Board received $145.6 million during its annual drive last year -- almost $30 million shy of its goal. The number of missionaries, which was 5,656 in 2009, dropped to 5,000 last year.


It looks like people are finally waking up !!! :)

actually I think people who are agreeing with Pascal are wageringh a great deal.....mainly wasting precious time (along with $$ for religion, guilt, prejudice) etc.....

I appreciate Abracadabra's comment about the 2800 gods,
and I look up to Abracadabra as one of the sharpest people who writes in this blog :)

My point was meant to be about people's preception of the 2800 gods as true, not necessarily that the god (or gods) they personally believe is/are the true #1, top of the god food chain, god(s).

Many religions tolerate or accept other's gods.
But at some point in time (some presently), all of these 2800 gods had followers who believed they exist. All of these gods had followers who knew the "truth" about these gods, where they lived, what they did, what they thought etc... My point is that all of these god beliefs are in our minds.. purely imaginary :)

reminds me of a profound song that says it all....

"Imagine there's no heaven, above us only ....sky"

Heaven is just another imaginary aspect of religion,
like hell, heaven totally defies logic and reason.

I am constantly amazed, here in 2011 with our access to vast knowledge, that so many people still grasp onto such imaginary, delusional concepts as heaven and hell.

Just enjoy life and be good for goodness sake :)

Previously written:
"Im more with pascal on this one
Id rather be wrong about worshipping a 'non existent' God
than wrong about worshipping a true and just God"



This goes back to one of my original questions....
All believers (of all 2800 known gods)believe their god is the true god... and the other 2799 gods are false

I'm more with Dawkins on this one
"don't squander your precious time on worshiping him, sacrificing to him, fighting and dying for him"

As most of you know, Pascal's Wager (or Pascal's Gambit) is a suggestion posed by the French philosopher, mathematician and physicist Blaise Pascal that, even though the existence of God cannot be determined through reason, a person should wager as though God exists, because living life accordingly has everything to gain, and nothing to lose.

Some assert that since there have been many religions throughout history, and therefore many potential gods, all of them need to be factored into the wager, in an argument known as the argument from inconsistent revelations. Believing in one god would lead to a high probability of believing in the wrong god, which destroys the mathematical advantage Pascal claimed with his Wager.

Richard Dawkins argues for an "anti-Pascal wager" in his book, The God Delusion. "it could be said that you will lead a better, fuller life if you bet on his not existing, than if you bet on his existing and therefore squander your precious time on worshiping him, sacrificing to him, fighting and dying for him, etc."

(An interesting side note.....Blaise Pascal also wrote)
"Men never commit evil so fully and joyfully as when they do it for religious convictions."

So the question is what to do ???
1) live with faith (or fake it, act like you believe (which was OK to Pascal)) in one god, like Jesus
2) try to cover all bases and act like you believe in all 2800 known gods
3) do like Dawkins and spend your time doing other things besides worshiping god or gods
4) take the time to write this post instead of being outside enjoying this beautiful weather LOL

I enjoy these posts and appreciate how they stay friendly and kind 99% of the time, ed :)

Wed 04/13/11 06:40 AMQUOTE:

Jess642,
I agree with you...
Christianity is such a ....rediculous belief, and I don't want it forced upon me either :(
the world would be so much better off if we could put Jesus where he belongs... in a history book of fictional stories with the other 2800 gods that mankind has created over time...
Many people just have a need to believe in something that becomes responsible for their life events....Maybe try being stronger and responsible for yourself :)


Excuse me???
try being stronger and responsible for myself?
How so?
because I escorted my daughter to a so called craft night, and discovered it was dogmatic bullcrap?
How am I NOT responsible for myself?
I am furious at the deception used on young women!
Not me!...I didn't go looking to be 'saved'!!!



Hi Jess642 :)

I agree with you, I am sorry about how I wrote the last sentence in my post above, it was poorly written, I was in a hurry and proof read it toooo quickly .. I was referring to christians and others who should try to be stronger and responsible for themselves, not push their responsibilities, choices and consequences onto an imaginary god... I would be upset just like you were :)

Jess642,
I agree with you...
Christianity is such a ....rediculous belief, and I don't want it forced upon me either :(
the world would be so much better off if we could put Jesus where he belongs... in a history book of fictional stories with the other 2800 gods that mankind has created over time...
Many people just have a need to believe in something that becomes responsible for their life events....Maybe try being stronger and responsible for yourself :)

(this is a true story)
a mean, muscular cop goes home early,
he walks into the bedroom in uniform (with his belt and gun on)
he sees his wife and her lover in their bed
they freeze, he walks up to the edge of the bed,
looks at them very red and upset,
he reaches for his gun,
keeps reaching back and pulls his wallet out of his back pocket
he takes out 5 dollars,
throws the 5 dollars on the bed toward the lover
and says
"go buy yourself a good piece of ***"

(this really happened in Houston with an HPD cop)

back to Jesus resurrection...
According to Christians, Jesus died, was dead for 3 days, then rose from the dead....

So if Jesus was dead for 3 days,
and Christianity is a monotheistic religion,
(Father, Son (Jesus) and the Holy Ghost (Spirit) are one entity..)
then according to Christian belief, the universe would have been without God for 3 days.

I guess this is just another example of how illogical and actually rediculous Christian Mythology is :(

And to think, it all started with a talking snake !!!

George Carlin sums it up well:
Think about it. Religion has actually convinced people that there’s an invisible man living in the sky who watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever ’til the end of time! But He loves you. He loves you, and He needs money! He always needs money! He’s all-powerful, all-perfect, all-knowing, and all-wise, somehow just can’t handle money! Religion takes in billions of dollars, they pay no taxes, and they always need a little more. Now, you talk about a good ******** story. Holy ****!”

Jeanniebean is on the mark.....
Religion is imaginary, made up, in our minds
like the easter bunny and Santa Claus

as an atheist (no god belief) and an agnostic (I do not know), the Jesus myth can only be discussed as another imaginary mythological story......Today's religion will be tomorrow's mythology

People who believe in imaginary beings are delusional
People who talk to imaginary beings are delusional
People who believe in imaginary superstitions like prayer are delusional
Delusion–a fixed false belief that is resistant to reason or confrontation with actual fact.
Religion by definition is a Psychosis….
an entire imaginary, delusional belief system
We can call it Religious Belief Syndrome… an acronym could be… Religious B S

The real question is:
What is the need or weakness in some people that allows them to grasp onto religion to answer their life problems and questions??

So if we go by this definition.....

"And here is another definiton of "victim"
vic·tim
vic·tim [víktim]
(plural vic·tims)
n
1. somebody hurt or killed: somebody who is hurt or killed by somebody or something, especially in a crime, accident, or disaster
a murder victim"

Jesus was the ultimate victim (assuming one very big assumption...that you believe the Jesus myth), killed by his dad (God)...since his dad is all powerful and let it happen....but wait , the Romans killed Jesus, so God either isn't that powerful, or he is and he allowed it...a loving caring dad who lets his son suffer and die, but then god would died...one god...but its a trinity...so Jesus died and god lived... but they are one....
this makes absolutely no sense.... BINGO !!!!!

I agree,
that I have the same opportunity to be saved !!!
If I just:
Believe that some cosmic Jewish Zombie can save me and make me live forever if I symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him that I accept him as my master, so he can remove an evil force from my soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree.

makes perfect sense ?????

I don't hate people who think they are "saved", I just get tired of the projection....that Christians are victims when they don't get their way...gay rights, abortion, prayer in public institutions etc...how about a little tolerance for the third largest "religious" group in America..... non-believers ??

"Men never commit evil so fully and joyfully as when they do it for religious convictions." Blaise Pascal, of "Pascal's Wager" fame.

"With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion." Steven Weinberg.

"Throughout history religionolics have killed, tortured and ostracized millions on the altar of their religion and particular Invisible Man in the Sky! "If God listened to the prayers of men, all men would quickly have perished: for they are forever praying for evil against one another."
Epicurus (341 - 270 BC, Athens) Greek philosopher.



"The secret of health for both mind and body is not to mourn for the past, worry about the future, or anticipate troubles, but to live in the present moment wisely and earnestly."
Buddha

Maybe.....listen to Buddha :)

If we let go of religion and the evil it brings upon people, and let go of the mythology of ....original sin in the past (eating an apple because a snake said to) and heaven-hell in the future (imaginary places) and just relax and enjoy .....
the moment...
Hmmmmmmmm, what a thought :)

I agree with Abracadabra..
Any discussion of letting non-Christians do and say what they want, brings on a barrage of "stop persecuting Christians, stop disrespecting Christians, why are you waging a war against Christianity" ...etc, etc....

Like Proposition 8 in California, Mormons (in Utah) spent several million dollars fighting it because... to allow gay marriage would infringe upon the Mormon's religious freedom to hate gays and not allow gay marriage.... How screwed up is this logic !!!!!!!!!!!!!

I had posted the following somewhere on this site before, but I believe it is relevant to Abracadabra's last post...
One of the strongest arguments for Christianity and the Jesus story is that it cannot be proven to be untrue. We are 2000 years later without videos, pictures etc to prove the biblical version of Jesus is false.....
Kinda like flying elephants....
I have seen many live elephants in my 54 years, many pics, etc...and I have never seen an elephant fly. There are cartoons and drawings of flying elephants (dumbo, etc..) so some might think they are based upon truth... and some would argue, since I have not traveled the globe and looked at every elephant, the elephants I have never seen could have a few among them that can fly.

But based upon logic, reason, science and common sense I know elephants don't fly. Kinda like God wasn't mad at people for eating an apple after listening to a talking snake... then inseminating a woman to have a god/son to suffer and die for us. I wasn't there 2000 years ago, but this story is beyond bizarre.....It would be easier to buy into worshiping flying elephants !!!

You really should look at scholarly sources, because you'll find that what you've just posted isn't true. There are people who want it to seem that Christianity is a copy-cat religion, but it's simply not true.


But Christianity is a copy-cat religion !!
virgin birth
dec 25
eat his flesh, drink his blood (communion)
etc, etc, etc....

Fortunately Christianity as an organized religion has basically died out. All that's really left today are a bunch of "Designer Christians" who can never agree with each other on what the religion even means.... But they all agree on two things...keep sending in your money and keep living with guilt as a sinner.
How rediculous :(

It seems the one thing these characters have in common:
All have mythological lives.....Horus, Jesus, Hercules etc...
All imaginary stories :)