I do agree that there is a great deal of evidence surrounding the gospels and the OT, in terms of flooding, famine, migration of people..etc... the gospels/bible etc were written with some historical truth, to help explain why things happened, but there is zero proof of anything divine in these writings, it is all imaginary, we make this stuff up and some want to believe it, therefore it is true (to them)... again, just nomadic cavemen trying to explain their existence...



as for myths morphing into newer myths:

RESEMBLANCES BETWEEN MITHRA AND CHRIST
1. Both Mithras and Christ were portrayed as young and beardless; both sometimes appeared in the shepherd's role, and both saved mankind by performing sacrifical deeds.

2. Both Mithras and Christ had virgin births in the sense that they were conceived without any sexual union between man and woman. Christ's father was said to be God, while Mithras was said to have had no father or mother, having emerged as an adult from a large rock.

3. Both Mithraism and Christianity celebrated the birth of their god on the winter solstice, the 25th of December according to the Julian calendar. Both featured the sharing of presents, the use of Christmas trees with candles, and nativity scenes that included shepherds attracted by a sacred light. The special importance of this solstice ceremony to Mithraists would be indicated by the name Mithras, which derived from Meitras, which in Greek numerology refers to the number 365, the last day of the solar year at the winter solstice.

4. Both the Old Testament and Mithraic legend told of the first human couple having been created. Mithra supposedly kept a watchful eye over their descendents until Ahriman caused a draught that caused such thirst that they begged Mithra for water.

5. Both told of a major flood, in the case of Mithra through his having shot an arrow into a stone cliff to quench mankind's thirst. Unfortunately, the entire world's population was drowned in a flood produced by the water spout that gushed from the hole his arrow produced. One man alone (a Noah figure borrowed from the earlier Sumerian myth of Atrahasis) was warned in time and could therefore save himself and his cattle in an ark.

6. Both Mithraism and Christianity emphasized mankind's redemption resulting from a sacrificial death followed by the god's ascent to heaven. In the case of Christ, it was the god himself (or his son) who was sacrificed; in the case of Mithra, it was a sacred steer that Mithra sacrificed.

7. Both featured resurrection through sacrifice. Mithraism more obviously drew upon spring equinox fertility myths by depicting Mithra's sacrificial bull with a tail that consisted of sheaves of wheat that were supposedly scattered throughout the world once it was slaughtered. Also, the bull's blood formed the milky way, allowing human souls both to be born and to return to the heavens after death.

8. Both told of a Last Supper linked with the blood sacrifice whose symbolic recreation by eating bread and wine provided salvation for all worshippers. After Mithra killed the bull depicted in Mithraic art, he feasted upon it with the Sun God and other companions before ascending to the heavens in the sun god's chariot. The sequence was slightly different in the New Testament: Christ's Last Supper necessarily preceded his crucifixion rather than following it, after which he ascended to heaven.

9. Both emphasized purification through baptism, Mithraists by washing themselves in the blood of sacrificial oxen. While dying oxen bled to death on lattice floors built over their heads, initiates both drank and washed themselves with the blood that dripped on them.

10. Both featured secret temples located underground. For Christians it was a temporary expedient to avoid persecution, but for Mithraists it became a permanent institution, each small chapel, called a Mithraeum, having seated no more than fifty worshippers and having been constructed to point from east to west. Rounded ceilings were painted blue and imbedded with gemstones. There were no windows except for a few chapels in which tiny holes in the ceiling that had been bored to let in the light of certain stars at particular times of the year.

11. Both held Sunday to be sacred.

12. Both encouraged asceticism. Mithraists were expected to resist sensuality and to abstain from eating certain foods.

13. Both emphasized charity. Mithra was identified as the god of help who protected his worshippers, whatever their tribulations in life.

14. Last and probably least, both emphasized a rock, Mithra having been born from one and the Vatican having been built on one.


RESEMBLANCES BETWEEN HORUS AND CHRIST:

1. Horus born of a virgin.(Horus was born to the goddess Isis. Isis was impregnated by divine fire.)
<> Jesus born of a virgin.

2. The foster father of Horus was Seb or Seph. <> Jesus was fostered by Joseph.

3. Horus was of royal descent. <> Jesus was of royal descent.

4. Horus birth accompanied by three solar deities [star gazers] who followed by the morning star of Sirius bearing gifts. <> Jesus birth accompanied by three wise men [Zoroastrian star gazers] who followed by a star “in the east” bearing gifts.

5. The birth of Horus announced by angels. <> The birth of Jesus announced by angels.

6. Herut tried to murder the infant Horus. <> Herod slaughtered every first born in an attempt to kill Jesus the forthcoming messiah.

7. Horus is baptized at age 30 by Anup the Baptiser at a river. <> Jesus is baptized at age 30 by John the Baptist at a river.

8. Horus resists temptation by the evil Sut [Sut was to be the precursor for the Hebrew Satan] on a high mountain. <> Jesus resists temptation by Satan on a high mountain.

9. Horus had 12 followers. <> Jesus had 12 disciples.

10. Horus performed miracles like healing the sick and walking on water. <> Jesus performed miracles like healing the sick and walking on water.

11. Horus raised someone from the grave [his father Osiris] <> Jesus raised Lazarus [notice the name similarity] from the grave. Lazarus is short for Elasarus – the “us” on the end is romanized. Elasarus was derived from “El-Asar” which was the name given to Osiris.

12. Horus was buried and resurrected in the city of Anu. <> The place Bethany mentioned in John was a derivative of the words “Bet” and “Anu” which translates “the house of Anu”. The ‘y’ on the end of bethany is interchangeable with the letter ‘u’.

13. Horus was killed by crucifixtion. <> Jesus was crucified.

14. Horus was accompanied by two thieves at the crucifixtion. <> Jesus was crucified with two thieves.

15. Horus was buried in a tomb at Anu. <> Jesus was buried in a tomb located in Bethany [Bet-Anu].

16. Horus was resurrected after 3 days. <> Jesus was “said” to resurrected after over a period of three days.

17. The resurrection of Horus was announced by three women. <> The resurrection of Jesus was announced by three women.

18. Horus was given the titel KRST which means “anointed one” <> Jesus was given the title Christ [Christos] meaning “anointed one”



19. Horus was considered the Good Shepherd amongst other names identified as a falcon to watch over shepherds, flocks and other grazing cattle. <> Jesus was called the Good Shepherd amongst other names the same for Horus.

20. Horus is associated with fish and is linked with the star sign Pisces. <> Jesus is also associated with fish [and fishermen] and has Pisces as his star sign.

"The devil is already in charge of god. Why? Because god allows the devil to continue operating.
It seems that most of god's time is taken up by combating Satan. In fact, I don't know where he finds the time to run the universe."

Kinda reminds me of a profound song...
Imagine no hell below us, above us....only sky.

the whole God-Satan thing is in our minds...
it is imaginary, it makes absolutely no logical sense...

I agree ....each person truly is the master of his own destiny.
He (or she) does make the choices for himself.....he even considers the will of his Gods that he creates and imagines in his own mind (if he choses to have Gods in his life)

It is all relative to each person's own perspective..
We all live in our own reality ...............

Years ago, I had read an abstract of a University study (I believe from Harvard Medical School, but not sure) that looked at many individual parameters in a large population sample to determine what defines an Intelligent person.

I thought their conclusion was interesting. They concluded that there was one major difference between intelligent people :) and ....less than intelligent people :(

The intelligent people realize and recognize what they do not know. The not so bright people don't realize they aren't bright. An excellent modern example is Sarah Palin (You can draw your own conclusion as to which group she belongs to) :)

We know of approximately 2800 "Gods" who have been worshipped by mankind.....Jesus is just another in a long succession of Gods...

"The one true son of God, healer of the sick,prophet to the world, leader of 13 disciples, sent here to die for our sins and raised on Sunday.Eat of his body and drink of his blood. All praise MITHRA !!!"

"The one true son of God, healer of the sick,prophet to the world, leader of 13 disciples, sent here to die for our sins and raised on Sunday. Eat of his body and drink of his blood. All praise HORUS !!!"

Today's religion will be tomorrow's mythology

It is interesting how fables and imagination add up to "truth"

"The one true son of God, healer of the sick,prophet to the world, leader of 13 disciples, sent here to die for our sins and raised on Sunday.Eat of his body and drink of his blood. All praise MITHRA !!!"

"The one true son of God, healer of the sick,prophet to the world, leader of 13 disciples, sent here to die for our sins and raised on Sunday. Eat of his body and drink of his blood. All praise HORUS !!!"

We know of approximately 2800 "Gods" who have been worshipped by mankind.....Jesus is just another in a long succession of Gods...

Today's religion will be tomorrow's mythology

It is interesting how fables and imagination add up to "truth"

Thomas 3474 wrote ".I don't think giving 10% to God is unreasonable."
and that really is my question....how does the $$ end up in God's hands ????

I agree with charity and helping people, actually wouldn't more people be helped if the $$ didn't go to religion....buildings, church bank accounts, support the Vatican etc... and just....help people directly ???

Thomas 3474 also wrote "God does say what you give will be multiplied many times over." As you know Joel Osteen makes around 80 million dollars each year conveying this message that God is honor bound and duty bound to return the favor.

Thomas, I appreciate what you wrote and I think it is exemplary for what many would write....

As we non-believers say "just be good for goodness sake"

I have always wondered about the connection between money given in church and that money going to god.....I have always thought of it as one of mankind's greatest scams, but for those who believe in tithing, the following is interesting :)

I found the following article to be interesting:

"Will a man ROB God?" How many untold tens of thousands of men will give account one day for teaching this verse in Malachi 3:8 totally out of context for their own sordid gain. I couldn’t count the times I have heard self-appointed ministers of the gospel berate their congregations and listeners for "robbing God" in tithes and offerings. This verse in Malachi certainly means what it says. Someone was defrauding God of tithes and offerings, but wait until you find out who it is that God blames for this act.

On any given Sunday morning there will be numerous men-of-the-cloth who will be bellowing out over the air waves that people are being "cursed with a curse" because they have failed to pay God ten percent of their paychecks. And should such a gullible listener decide to repent and give God ten percent of his salary, just how would he do that? Just keep reading. These men of the cloth who often have unquenchable worldly desires of the flesh, will be sure to give you an address where you can send them (or, ah, rather God) your tithe. And do they have a right to quote these Scriptures in this manner? No they do not, and furthermore they themselves know better.

SOME SHOCKING TRUTHS ABOUT THE CHRISTIAN TITHING DOCTRINE

Abraham never tithed on his own personal property or livestock.

Jacob wouldn’t tithe until God blessed him first.

Only Levite priests could collect tithes, and there are no Levite priests today.

Only food products from the land were tithable.

Money was never a tithable commodity.

Christian converts were never asked to tithe anything to the Church.

Tithing in the Church first appears centuries after completion of the Bible.


So are Christians Biblically obligated to tithe money ?????, ed :)

Thank you for the previous post :)
I think it touched upon the most common reasons why many people believe in religions......
There is comfort in believing that our loved ones will live forever in a nice place, that justice will be done (this could be a huge discussion in and of itself... justice as defined by whom ??, and having comfort within our own imaginations....

And the most profound explanation was..
"Dreaming is a great reality in and of itself."

Everyone has their own belief as to what is the correct and true belief concerning god...most posts revolve around this...

If we can leave the "what god is (or isn't), or what the true religion is (or isn't)" out of this post and just discuss the why..

Why have many people over many generations concerned themselves with religion and god ??, We all can answer fairly simply why mankind seeks food and shelter etc..., but why have many spent so much time on religion.

I have a few thoughts about this to start this thread...
We learn about our gods within our society..Zeus,Jesus etc...
And people believe what they are exposed to, or chose not to...
but why ??
Is it simply that many are just following a social custom within their community ?? Is it a need for comfort and answers about the unknown...death,earthquakes, sunrise and sunset etc... Is it mainly fear ?? if we don't sacrifice a virgin or say our hail Mary's we will burn for eternity in a bad place??

I sincerely request that we all try to keep to why, not what and we all try to leave out our personal beliefs as to what. Thanks, ed :)

You might think that some faith group must have grown during the last thirty years, and you’d be right: atheists and nonbelievers more than doubled in the eleven years between 1990 and 2001, from 14 million to 29 million: from 8% of the country to 14%. There are more than twice as many atheists and nonbelievers as there are evangelical Christians.[6] And since it’s hard to believe that all atheists/nonbelievers would be willing to confess that to pollsters, the number is probably much higher. From 2000 to 2005, church attendance fell in all fifty states.[7]

"his plan from the beginning was to give the worthy immortality for following his word. this involves faith and love. so there were rules set down for a teaching /learning process.its not so much the apple but the obediance"

this is exactly the problem..
1)his plan from the beginning....so this gentleman, along with other Christians know his plan, or plans every believer believes what they...want to believe
2)follow his word...the Bible.. old testament..sell kids into slavery, stone and torture people, etc....
3)it involves faith and love....not logic, science etc...
4)obediance.....here we are again, full circle back to fear.. if you don't obey....an eternity burning in hell

"Fortunately Christianity an an organized religion has basically died out. All that's really left today are a bunch of "Designer Christians" who can never agree with each other on what the religion even means."

The Christians posting to this blog are great examples of this..
they all know what god is thinking..
the way to heaven (salvation) is:
one writes "do good deads"
another writes "have faith in your heart"
another writes "have faith"
another writes "you need faith and good deeds"

"Man is the only animal that has the true religion--several of them" Mark Twain

"You know that Christianity isn't a violent religion"
really ???
Jesus died a horrific violent death.....
what about the Crusades..etc...
and if you don't follow the Christian god, you will suffer for eternity in hell

Gee, I want to sign up for this fear trip !!!!

One of the strongest arguements for Christianity and the Jesus story is that it cannot be proven to be untrue. We are 2000 years later without videos, pictures etc to prove the biblical version of Jesus is false.....
Kinda like flying elephants....
I have seen many live elephants in my 54 years, many pics, etc...and I have never seen an elephant fly. There are cartoons and drawings of flying elephants (dumbo, etc..) so some might think they are based upon truth... and some would argue, since I have not traveled the globe and looked at every elephant, the elephants I have never seen could have a few among them that can fly.

But based upon logic, reason, science and common sense I know elephants don't fly. Kinda like God wasn't mad at people for eating an apple after listening to a talking snake... then inseminating a woman to have a god/son to suffer and die for us. I wasn't there 2000 years ago, but this story is beyond bazarre.....It would be easier to buy into worshiping flying elephants !!! LOL

I agree :)
How can anyone with even minimal logic or reason buy into this ??
It is so rediculous and imaginary .......

So many people waste so much time, energy, guilt and so much $$ on religion. It is OK if they want to live in an imaginary world, I just dislike that it is pressed upon us freethinkers. "in god we trust"....are you kidding !!!! :)

about Hitler:

In public statements, especially at the beginning of his rule, Hitler frequently spoke positively about the Christian heritage of German culture, and his belief in the "Aryan" Christ. In a proclamation to the German Nation February 1, 1933 Hitler stated, "The National Government will regard it as its first and foremost duty to revive in the nation the spirit of unity and co-operation. It will preserve and defend those basic principles on which our nation has been built. It regards Christianity as the foundation of our national morality, and the family as the basis of national life."[7]

Hitler's reaction to atheism
Hitler often associated atheism with Germany's communist enemy.[53] Hitler stated in a speech to the Stuttgart February 15, 1933: "Today they say that Christianity is in danger, that the Catholic faith is threatened. My reply to them is: for the time being, Christians and not international atheists are now standing at Germany’s fore. I am not merely talking about Christianity; I confess that I will never ally myself with the parties which aim to destroy Christianity. Fourteen years they have gone arm in arm with atheism. At no time was greater damage ever done to Christianity than in those years when the Christian parties ruled side by side with those who denied the very existence of God. Germany's entire cultural life was shattered and contaminated in this period. It shall be our task to burn out these manifestations of degeneracy in literature, theater, schools, and the press—that is, in our entire culture—and to eliminate the poison which has been permeating every facet of our lives for these past fourteen years."[54]

In a speech delivered in Berlin, October 24, 1933, Hitler stated: "We were convinced that the people needs and requires this faith. We have therefore undertaken the fight against the atheistic movement, and that not merely with a few theoretical declarations: we have stamped it out."[55]

In a radio address October 14, 1933 Hitler stated "For eight months we have been waging a heroic battle against the Communist threat to our Volk, the decomposition of our culture, the subversion of our art, and the poisoning of our public morality. We have put an end to denial of God and abuse of religion. We owe Providence humble gratitude for not allowing us to lose our battle against the misery of unemployment and for the salvation of the German peasant."[56]

In a speech delivered at Koblenz, August 26, 1934 Hitler states: "There may have been a time when even parties founded on the ecclesiastical basis were a necessity. At that time Liberalism was opposed to the Church, while Marxism was anti-religious. But that time is past. National Socialism neither opposes the Church nor is it anti-religious, but on the contrary, it stands on the ground of a real Christianity. The Church's interests cannot fail to coincide with ours alike in our fight against the symptoms of degeneracy in the world of to-day, in our fight against the Bolshevist culture, against an atheistic movement, against criminality, and in our struggle for the consciousness of a community in our national life, for the conquest of hatred and disunion between the classes, for the conquest of civil war and unrest, of strife and discord. These are not anti-Christian, these are Christian principles."[57]

During negotiations leading to the Nazi-Vatican Concordat of April 26, 1933 Hitler argued that "Secular schools can never be tolerated because such schools have no religious instruction, and a general moral instruction without a religious foundation is built on air; consequently, all character training and religion must be derived from faith."[58]

The following defies any logic.....


"(SO SATAN HAS MORE POWER THAN GOD ??).
--------------------------------------
No, he is not. Satan will be destroyed at judgment time. God allows Satan to tempt us and cause havoc for if he didn't, what would God have to judge us on? That's what we'll be judged on, how well we did at obeying our father and not listening to Satan."

So an all loving, all powerful god has satan cause havoc in our lives so he can judge us later on how much or how little we listened to satan ?? I don't think I could do drugs and come up with such a bizarre statement !!!

Why not "just be good for goodness sake ??"

a previous post stated
"Atheist and the ACLU have sued to remove personal prayers from schools,Christmas trees and lights in public places,the word Christmas removed from school calendars,the banning of any mention of God or Jesus in any high school speeches,removal of the 10 commandments from courthouses,in God we trust off the money,the list goes on and on and on."

Think about it...
schools..public schools
school calenders...public school calendars
courthouses...secular institutions
money....secular money

It is actually a very simple concept...
Atheists are tired of having superstitions and myths forced upon us in secular institutions...

"in god we trust" is intellectually and logically insulting, and to print it on our money....just like the christians would be upset if our money had "in the flying spaghetti monster we trust"

the following is a great example of delusional thinking:

The father always is and always will be. So therefore God didn't come from anywhere, he has always been.(A CONVENIENT ILLOGICAL CATCH ALL) And i've shown there are no inconsistencies in the bible. (THE BIBLE IS ONE LONG INCONSISTENCY) When we show as such, you and the others like you just brush it off with an "well that's your interpretation". So yes we have answered the questions and shown there are no inconsistencies, you just didn't accept the answer(s). And there terrible injustices in the world is through people's actions (BUT GOD IS ALL POWERFUL AND ALLOWS THIS ??) and whom they serve. You can tell who a servant has given his life to through his/her works. They do evil things and or things against the will of God, regardless of what they say they are worshipping Satan (SO SATAN HAS MORE POWER THAN GOD ??). We worship our father through our every day actions. We don't do rituals and what not. (DON"T DO RITUALS !! THAT IS WHAT RELIGION IS !!!--EAT HIS FLESH, DRINK HIS BLOOD ETC....) And Christianity raises no questions it can not answer. (IMAGINATION IS A POWERFUL TOOL) EVERY question(s) you may have can be found in the bible if searched for with an open heart and open mind. (I FINALLY AGREE !!!, EVERY QUESTION>>>>JUST NOT THE ANSWERS!!)

What convinced me that religion is a delusion>>>>The basic laws of logic, evidence, science, nature and economics did. The dogmatic mysticism of religious people does not make sense and actually heavily contradicts itself. The day I lost my fear of the threat of burning in hell was the first intellectually free day of my life. I realized that Christianity and its rules and threats and prejudices was created by hut-dwellers thousands of years ago in order to gain power over their fellow human beings. New religions continue to crop up constantly in much the same way Christianity originally did- look at the Mormons, Scientologists and other less-successful religions.

I contend the Christians who post on this site are Christians for two reasons:
1) exposure to Christianity…
2) a personal need and weakness that they attempt to fill with religion.
They are Christians because they are exposed to and surrounded by it, if they lived in a Muslim community they would be Muslims...if they lived in a Hindu community they would gravitate toward.. I think you get my drift ..it is more about the person who has a need for religion in their life..they grasp onto the religion they are exposed to.

I have often wondered what keeps people in religion...
First, and most importantly, a religious person develops church influenced business, personal and family relationships. These would be wildly affected with a move toward non-belief.
Second, I believe the same personal weakness that draws a person to religion, keeps them from admitting it is rediculous and imaginary years later in life. To do so would be to admit to themselves that they bought into such a rediculous belief system for years and years.
It takes a strong, balanced, happy with themselves type person to do this.

as Lennon stated so well "Imagine, no hell below us, above us......only sky"