Isn't it odd---that Teddy was the one that wasn't taken out? I mean, JFK (like him or not had gravitas) and RFK (like him or not had a pretty solid civil right record) and both were shot. But Teddy (.......or not) manages to survive? Oh, the mysteries of the world.

That he left Mary Jo to drown while saving his own ass is one thing--the guy panicked and though it was absolutely the wrong thing to do, people panic. What gets me now is that he has ever apologized to her family. Never sent a note....never apologized. One can forgive youthful panic (well, some can) but to grow up and to realize that consequences of those actions and to never apologize--that is just pure arrogance.

But isn't one of the main questions which of the three main monotheistic religions is correct? Judaism, Islam, and Christianity all make exclusive claims to truth that contradict the others. I'm just curious if that is also part of your question or if you are starting from a place of Christianity?

Thanks,
Drew

I wasn't trying to create an analogy (until now)--I was being serious. Grow up in let's say....North Korea. Decide one day that you are tired of having to live like a piece of human debris and walk to the middle of a town square and say: "I would like to take the politicians and the generals put them up against the wall and shoot them." I'd be surprised if that person was allowed to finish the sentence before being shot.

It's easy to mouth off on JSH when there is zero penalty and zero sacrifice involved. I enjoy it too, I just get that there was a cost.

-Drew

OK, one more time for the pure hell of it. Congress has to authorize every dime, nickel, and dollar bill spent in Iraq. Congress is, and has been for some time now controlled by Democrats. They could have cut off funding to this war at any point in time but they have not. When oh when are some of the people in this community (not to mention this thread) going to start holding accountable those paying for all of this?

-Drew

If the U.S. government was truly the most corrupt government in the world it is much more likely that all the politicians and generals would put you up against a wall and shoot you. That is what truly corrupt governments do to those who question even the smallest of things.

-Drew

You really believe that you'll have more money in your pocket if a Democrat is elected? If that Democrat is able to enact National Health Care, I hope you'll revisit your post to see if you still feel the same way.

-Drew

Fair points made in response to the original post. I think it's also worth pointing out that the original post message got completely lost as every response has been about the delivery and not the point of the message. Anyway, I don't care if the BS attacks come from the right or from the left--addressing people as stupid or mindless or just bad form.

-Drew

You know Madison, I can respect that good people disagree about the war, about politics and about the best way to run a government. Respect to the point of being able to have civil discourse and even spirited debates. But what I don't respect is seeing post topics that look like yours. Mindless Sheeple? Is that supposed to be clever? Do you think it original or even vaguely inspiring?

You really do nothing to add to the solution. Your calling people names doesn't make them want to learn or try to understand your point of view. It makes most (including me) think: "Huh, this guy obviously disagrees with the war but why does he feel the need to insult those who hold a different view?"

I don't think threads like this add anything to the picture. They won't change minds already made up and they won't sway those who have cause to reconsider their stance. Perhaps if you had sought to inform, to educate, and above all to treat those who don't agree with you as something more than a group of morons, you'd have better luck.

Then again, maybe that is not your goal.

-Drew

Perhaps it is mud-slinging but if the mud sticks it has to be addressed. I mentioned on a post here that it was really a reach to suggest that just because Mr. Obama's preacher said stupid things that Mr. Obama himself agreed with them. Nevertheless, there is a reason David Duke never made it far (thank god) in his political life. If John McCain openly associated himself with a preacher (for many years) who said similar things he would not get anything that looked like a free pass.

-Drew

Whether one sides with the left or with the right I do hope that everyone who uses the work (articles/columns) will site the source and a link to the original. Failure to do so is not only shady but is usually a copyright violation.

I'm not in a position to enforce such a policy (as I am simply a member here) but I see too much of this type of "borrowing" on the web and it is really very sad.

-Drew

Your point above has the unique properties of both making my point for me and discrediting the "absolutely nothing" mentality. My point was that in the case of those liberated from concentration camps, war was indeed very good for something.

-Drew

Ahhh, thank you!

Are you serious? I didn't write it in code.

Drew

It is inconsistent logic that says on one hand that a fetus isn't a human life (if the fetus is unwanted) but on the other hand say that the murder of a pregnant woman carrying a "child" is a double homicide. The state of the fetus/child in this case is identical--only the wishes of the mother differ. Despite the heartfelt and difficult issues surrounding this issue, that is poor reasoning and even worse logic.

-Drew

Oh, I don't know....you might want to consider the roughly 7,500 Jews who were liberated from Auschwitz by Allied forces on a cold January morning in 1945 and consider whether or not they felt that war (or for them, being spared certain death) was good for something just a bit more important than absolutely nothing.

-Drew

I was reading an article not long ago by the brilliant writer and polemicist Christopher Hitchens. He was writing about Hillary and her almost unquenchable need for attention, her seemingly all-consuming belief (if not general disposition) that the presidency is all but owed to her come November and he mentioned a story that she told back in 1995.

While in Nepal in 1995 she met (oddly enough) Sir Edmund Hillary. Hillary along with Tenzing Norgay were the first (and second) climbers to reach the summit of Mt. Everest. And if that feat was amazing as a stand-alone consider the fact that word reached Britain on the day of Queen Elizabeth's II coronation.

The good Senator (back then the First Lady) told the story of how her mother had named her after Sir Edmund Hillary. What a heart-warming story when one considers now the glass ceiling broken where there is a third less oxygen than at sea level and the glass ceiling of the first woman running for president who actually (perhaps even still) looks to have a chance.

There is only one problem.

It's not true.

Perhaps the good Senator should have consulted a calendar (or at the very least, a history book) for had she, she would have likely realized that while she was born in 1947, Hillary and Norgay didn't summit Everest until 1953. Unless Senator Clinton's mother waited until she was six before naming her daughter, it just didn't happen.

And so what's the big deal? I mean, we've all told a lie and we've all tried to find links to something that makes us appear as more "someone" or "something." So, again, what's the big deal?

Well, it's not. As lies go, it's a minor one, almost an ironic one. But that is what makes it almost sad. It's not hubris, it's pathetic. It's a lie for no reason, it's a lie so beneath her capable intellect but almost makes her look robotic. Most people in politics can't really raise expectations and when that is the case all you can hope for is to meet them. But she had a chance to confound expectations and to shake the party structure to its core. Instead she left a trail of this type of story behind which when considered is nothing more than a visionary woman telling the world she was named after a visionary man.

Well, almost.

-Drew

I think some here would rather see some of us visit the Hague.

First of all, I've nothing against PCs. I use one at work (Dell) and we get along most of the time very nicely. But a few months ago my five year old PC (one I had built for me) started to give up the ghost. I was only running with 256 RAM, a pretty slow proc and an 80 GB Western Dig HD. I got more than my money's worth but it was time to buy again.

I debated, researched, read a ton of forums and talked to all of the IT guys at work (all pretty big PC fans but then again, that is their world.)

But Vista sealed the deal for me and so I went with a Mac. When I write that Vista sealed the deal I say so fully aware that I could have still opted for XP had I gone with a Dell or HP. Dell is still selling PCs with XP but your options are limited (sound card, vid card etc....) but I was terrified of Vista (a sentiment I am hardly alone in expressing) so I went with a Mac.

If you've never been to a Mac store, it is really a pretty cool experience. I set up some time to go in and meet 1:1 with a rep which gave me that opportunity to understand some of the differences I'd be dealing with. They were helpful and within an few hours I had my new Mac.

I went with the base model (1 Gig of RAM, 250 Gig HD, 2.0 m-proc and a 20 inch monitor.)

Out of the box there is one cord (wireless mouse and keyboard) and the initial boot (after standard updates) had me working on the machine within 20 minutes.

I'm not here to shill for Apple but having never used one (OK, the last time I did I was in 8th grade and was amazed by simple commands that allowed me to see my name in green 100 times fill the screen) I have been very impressed with how user friendly the iMac is. The newest OS from Mac is X (Leopard) and for what I need to do, it is perfect. Not even the lack of more RAM or a faster proc have slowed the performance in any significant way.

I have already been able to create a fairly easy blog (just for my own rants and writings) and last night sat down in iMovie and created a picture "movie" with some of my music.

NOTE: There have been questions about the transfer of iTunes music from one machine to another. Prior to the purchase of the Mac I purchased a pc/mac compatible external HD. I transfered all of my iTunes (15 gigs of music) to the external and then when I got my iMac, loaded it back. iTunes basically created a message that I had used one of my five transfers by doing so. So, it appears that transfer one was from my old PC to the external drive and then from the external drive to the Mac was another transfer. So, I have a couple left but I was VERY happy in that the entire library of music just populated perfectly into iTunes (which comes pre-loaded on all Macs) without the slightest glitch. Same held true for my docs (which were in both Open Office and in Word.)

I purchased Word and Excel for the Mac and so it felt good to have some old friendly "faces" present.

Overall I've been VERY happy with my purchase. There is not much I can't do with my Mac that I regularly did with my PC. I'm not a gamer so that was not an issue (and had it been I would have gone with a good PC) but again, considering what I use a computer for, this has been great.

The cost was a bit high (including .Mac just over 1300 with tax) and there is no doubt that I could have gotten a lot more Dell for the same money.

I just thought I'd throw my .02 out there regarding this purchase. I'm not a "tech" guy and my knowledge is pretty limited but I did do a lot of homework before I handed over my debit card. I am enjoying the challenges of learning a new system and of trying to figure out what all of the Mac lingo means.

It's been fun so far, so whether you are a die-hard PC user or a Mac user:

Cheers!!

Drew

Interesting strategy--call "most" here lazy and cry babies and then ask them to take their time to do something that is very important to you.

I will in that it supports the military but I'm wondering if perhaps a post in civility might be in order?

-Drew

I hear what you are saying and won't take your comment personally. My point was simply that sometimes digging a little deeper when dealing with a subject isn't a bad thing. That and I don't think anyone here will accuse me of not expressing an opinion or taking a side.

-Drew