I work as a manager for a small rural hospital in WA. I enjoy my work and enjoy the majority of people that I work with. Since we are a public hospital discussions/debates political or religious have to be dealt with carefully which is to say that we sometimes discuss such things when we take a break.

Not long before the last presidential election a co-worker was out in one of the on-site break areas raising just under a thousand kinds of hell about his beliefs regarding the Bush/Kerry race. I will not get in to which side he was taking because that isn't the point of my post. What I will state is that he was very angry. He was bashing the ideals held on the other side of the political spectrum and the more he discussed things the more animated and angry he became. I listened, agreed with some of it, disagreed with other parts but a few days later was talking to a person who had endured the entire display. She said something that stuck with me. "Drew, I am not very political and so I am trying to learn more but Steve (the guy who was ranting) just seemed so angry about everything...I think I'll vote for the other guy."

While her reasons were not exactly deeply thought out her emotional response was spot on.

She missed the message that Steve was trying to get across because all she could see and focus in on was the anger and the name calling (some rather graphic name calling) and the lack of positivity.

If I want you to appreciate what I believe I stand a better chance of that happening (by appreciate, I really mean respect) if I avoid becoming a sideshow unto my self and instead take the time to be kind. The same works when discussing things with me.

The girl who talked to me missed Steve's message because she couldn't hear him. To her, what he believed didn't seem to do anything but make him upset.

I'm not aiming this post at anyone specifically and it is advice I need to take myself. I guess I just wanted to write out loud a bit and remind myself (and anyone who cares to read) that bashing and ripping on people (from both sides of the debate) might leave us feeling correct but it isn't likely to change undecided minds in our favor if the message is drowned out by the antics employed in its delivery.

-Drew

Amen to that - the name calling directed at President George Bush many times diminishes any opinions threaders may propose.

I love a debate....as long as people can still hold on to their beliefs or learn something new or agree to disagree with no hard feelings in the end

Well said

Drew- you don't post very often but when you do, you certainly do it well

Thanks everyone! That post was also meant for me in that I have to remember that if I want to share a view or belief I need to do so in a way that doesn't instantly put someone on the defensive. If I am making them defensive they'll not really hear what I'm saying or trying to convey. And that applies to every line or form of debate. Religion, politics, Cable vs. Dish....I mean, the examples never end.

:)


Drew

cable....sorry but dish it's meesed up alot here

Drew~ I agree.

Debate is only debate if there is no anger or ventilation involved. You can be passionate about beliefs and opinions, but you must express them for the intended audience, whether written or spoken. In turn, the listener must also try to listen to the other person with the speaker's perspective in mind and compare it to their own as objectively as they can.

Very tough.

Once the issues goes from political to personal the debate ceases and the arguments begin, which is what always happens with the political threads.
Its a shame, because there is so much information and so many intelligent people on here that we should be able to discuss things in a respectful way.
Alas this doesnt happen, Ive been called names, bashed, whatever ...all because I have extremely radical ideas...however, I keep showing up hoping that some day someone will be willing to engage in a good debate.

symbelmyne..... Welcome to the club! The people on this site, including Drew, are bashing me, calling me names and the whole nine yards, all because I originated three threads about Obama.

Lindyy says:

I honestly have to say that we all - myself included - have gotten carried away at times, some much more than others.

I have been attacked left and right, and when I responded in like manner, I got jumped on again.

EVERYONE has to agree to tone things down, or it just wont' work.

BUT, it gets so frustrating, when our President, the Republicans, the conservatives, the Christians are CONSTANTLY being attacked by the very same people. AND WHY? I have asked this question many times, WHY the constant bashing of the same individuals, topics. I got responses such as 'he is a buffoon, he is a moron.' So, that is a good debatable issue?

There are threads being posted out of hatred, not to discuss an issue intelligently, but for the mere purpose of bashing.

It would be nice if the hatred threads stopped and good debate, intelligent debatable threads started being posted.

That is why I got on this forum to begin with, and oh boy, did I find out that was anything but what would take place.

Lindyy

fine lindyy, the man is an absolute genious

EVERYONE:

SEE what I mean?

Lindyy

I agree, that is why I am never angry or upset when I discuss my political beliefs. I am always a straight shooter, never deceptive and always smiling when I say it. It works wonders with most to seeing your side of things. Not saying that they will always agree but to see what you are trying to say is all.

you know i only posted because you dirrectly quoted me. you missy are more guilty of what you just renounced and complained about. get over it

Well said Drew.

Where I work, Making your point plainly and with authority.
I tell new people that once you've started to yell, You've lost the battle.

Another thing,
I became a New York Ranger fan because as a young man I heard an obnoxious Islander fan on the Staten Island ferry. I thank him, I like my Rangers.

G.

the lack of civility in the debate comes from the lack of facts

Thomas Jefferson