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Community > Posts By > Michael1427
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Is there another example of where a jumbo jet slammed into a building at 500 mph? You don't think there is any possibility that an impact like that might do something to the structural integrity of a building standing over 1000 feet tall? The building was designed with exactly that scenario in mind and was constructed in a manner that the force of such a blow would be dissipated around the main support columns in the middle. And as Metal wing has pointed out, the majority of the plane is simple aluminum. Those materials that would have incinerated in the explosion milliseconds during impact and would have never made it that far into the building. The debate is not whether it is plausible that structural damage “could” have been obtained by such a method, it is whether the damage conceivable from such a strike, could cause the “failure” that we witnessed that day. I submit to you that it is scientifically impossible. |
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I usually don't post to the conspiracy theory threads because I have found that many people believe what they want to believe and will ignore the facts. Many people are truly interested in the mechanics of what happened but cannot tell the difference between the "facts" presented to support the theory and the actual facts presented by someone knowledgeable. Many people are presented as experts just to make a buck, or a name, or trouble just for fun. When the Twin Towers fell, I was watching on TV and watched as the second plane hit. Within minutes, I knew the buildings were going to fall and fall in exactly the way that happened. Here are a few facts to consider on Flight 77. Aircraft are made of very thin sheet metal aluminum for the most part. If you do not know what happens to aluminum in a fire, go build a charcoal fire and throw a crushed beer can into it and watch what happens. Or come back later and see how much of the can you can find. Aluminum burns and is the major component of high class fireworks. Everyone wants to quote the melting point of steel as being so much higher than the heat of a burning jet fuel fire. The fact is that steel begins to lose it's strength rapidly over 600F and has fallen to the ground well before 1800F ever happens. Keep in mind the steel is there supporting weight and will not do that in a weakened state. No knowledgeable person has ever said the steel in any of these buildings "melted". They either don't have a clue or just misinterpreted the fact that the steel "failed" once it became softened by the heat. There are lots of pictures of the pieces of the plane and the engines at the Pentagon. All you need to find them is the urge to look. The US Gov't has a policy to suppress information of that nature because terrorists could use the information on damage to plan a better attack next time. For this reason, among others, the cleanup of the Pentagon site happened at maximum speed. IMHO, I think part of the reason the cleanup happened so fast was to get the minds of the Pentagon workers back to their jobs ASAP to stop this type of event from reoccurring. I don't expect most to give my words any more credence than those of anyone else. However, the friends I have made would have confidence that I know quite a bit about Metal and Wings .... and I don't need to research the net for facts on either. Terrorists hijacked Flight 77 and flew it into the Pentagon. The real conspiracy, as I see it, is how the gov't has convinced a population steeped in the history of self defense, empowered by a Constitution to protect against excessive government authority, and provided with a superior education, to sit by idle while a couple of idiots with box cutters kill you and thousands of innocent citizens. I think you a very knowledgable person wing as I have said before, but there are still other factors or questions. For one, the fires were starved for oxygen as the black smoke showed so never achieved and real temperature to fatigue the steel. Not over a big enough area, or for long enough. People were standing in the impact hole shortly after the impact so there is no way the fire was jet fuel fed. It ignited on impact.....a flash burn. The tower in Madrid burned for 18 hours or more, a red hot flame, over the entire top, but didn't fall. The towers fell in under an hour with only damage to a few certain floors. But again, this is another topic. While the plane may be constucted of aluminum, the massive engines are not, and there are no pictures of these engines being found at the Pentagon. There is a picture of a single turbine part, but it is too small for the 757 engines by a great deal, and there was only one shown. This is a simple rebuttal, please understand, I don't profess to be any skilled or knowledgable person on such things, but my eyes saw something that doesn't add up, even if only by picture evidence which was very lacking for a real report of any kind to base a solid opinion on. The engines "punched" into the building and were laying there. I have seen them in photographs. I do not understand the theory that they do not exist. Metal "fatigue" is a different form of failure which does not apply here. Bending and shear failure in structural steel members occurs when either elastic limit is reached, or the elastic limit is changed into the region of the "plastic" limit. Changing the elastic limit (stress range where the steel will return to it's original shape) to the plastic range (where deformity does not return) is the process where steel is made into the various shapes that we see. It doesn't matter how much oxygen could get to the jet fuel. No matter what, it would still burn hot enough to heat the steel beyond it's elastic limit and cause it to fail. At 1000F steel is garbage as a structural member. A jet crash into a building near the ground can cause "pooling". This event takes place if the ruptured fuel tanks can spill large amounts of fuel into a basement where the fuel can cause a large source of fuel for a fire but it burns slowly because most of it is not exposed to the atmosphere. Fuel vapor burns, liquid fuel does not. Keep the questions coming. The fact that you ask is a sign of your freedom and evidence that your brain is working.  Don't let the government take either of those away from you. My only suggestion is to keep your mind open to other sources of information also.
Pooling…There was enough jet fuel, that did not burn up in the original explosion, that ran down through the building and into the sub basement, to “pool” and have these INTENSE heat signatures for weeks upon weeks after the building collapsed??? 1. How did the fuel get from the upper floor at impact, down into a sub basement? There were survivors from the lower floors, were they dowsed by the fuel. Were the elevator shafts flooded? Were the stairwells? 2. If the fuel did spill down the shaft, would not the flame follow it like one of those cartoons where they lay the long fuse and once it hit the “pool” of unburned fuel, would it not ignite? 3. Do you have any other documented occurrences of a jet fuel fire having 1200deg heat signatures, weeks after the burn??? 4. Are you aware of other materials that do have those exact same characteristics? |
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Edited by
Michael1427
on
Wed 06/10/09 06:50 AM
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I usually don't post to the conspiracy theory threads because I have found that many people believe what they want to believe and will ignore the facts. Many people are truly interested in the mechanics of what happened but cannot tell the difference between the "facts" presented to support the theory and the actual facts presented by someone knowledgeable. Many people are presented as experts just to make a buck, or a name, or trouble just for fun. When the Twin Towers fell, I was watching on TV and watched as the second plane hit. Within minutes, I knew the buildings were going to fall and fall in exactly the way that happened. Here are a few facts to consider on Flight 77. Aircraft are made of very thin sheet metal aluminum for the most part. If you do not know what happens to aluminum in a fire, go build a charcoal fire and throw a crushed beer can into it and watch what happens. Or come back later and see how much of the can you can find. Aluminum burns and is the major component of high class fireworks. Everyone wants to quote the melting point of steel as being so much higher than the heat of a burning jet fuel fire. The fact is that steel begins to lose it's strength rapidly over 600F and has fallen to the ground well before 1800F ever happens. Keep in mind the steel is there supporting weight and will not do that in a weakened state. No knowledgeable person has ever said the steel in any of these buildings "melted". They either don't have a clue or just misinterpreted the fact that the steel "failed" once it became softened by the heat. This is very true. However, can you list a few historical references of steel framed buildings totally collapsing due to fire? I would love to see that. Also, what explanation do you have for the pictures that show, what appear to be, perfect “cuts” in the steel beams? Is this something that occurs naturally? There are lots of pictures of the pieces of the plane and the engines at the Pentagon. All you need to find them is the urge to look. The US Gov't has a policy to suppress information of that nature because terrorists could use the information on damage to plan a better attack next time. For this reason, among others, the cleanup of the Pentagon site happened at maximum speed. IMHO, I think part of the reason the cleanup happened so fast was to get the minds of the Pentagon workers back to their jobs ASAP to stop this type of event from reoccurring. I don't expect most to give my words any more credence than those of anyone else. However, the friends I have made would have confidence that I know quite a bit about Metal and Wings .... and I don't need to research the net for facts on either. Terrorists hijacked Flight 77 and flew it into the Pentagon. The real conspiracy, as I see it, is how the gov't has convinced a population steeped in the history of self defense, empowered by a Constitution to protect against excessive government authority, and provided with a superior education, to sit by idle while a couple of idiots with box cutters kill you and thousands of innocent citizens. |
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Yes i believe that a plane hit the pentagon completely. The hole you saw was after the plane hit and the hole didnt look like a plane because we live in reality and not a cartoon where a plane shape hole is formed by the wings. lol The video proved it the parts on the ground around the area proved it what else do you need to see to prove it. Please document your proof of this as I have with photos of this wreckage and debris? Where are the wings and engines, luggage and bodies? Sojourning_Soul, some people are just too stuck in their paradigm and are quite comfortable in the “reality” that they have. Scientific facts be damned. The only conspiracy ( CONS PIRACY) going on is the one that said that the fire from the impact melted enough of the steel frame of the building to cause it to pancake down, in a perfect straight drop, at free fall speed, causing both towers to pulverize into debris conveniently no longer than a flat bed 18 wheeler, so that the U.S. government to clean it up and send it off to a foreign country to be destroyed, before a proper scientific analysis of the evidence could be obtained. And to whom posted the video link for the jet that was testing the reinforced concrete for nuclear power plants… this is comparing apples to oranges. With all due respect, the planes where not filled with the same type of fuel, where not at the same air speed, did not hit anything even remotely close to the same type of structure, was not even remotely close to the same dimensions, and has no more relevance to the topic then a video of two puppies fighting over a Frisbee. And to the one who posted the “obvious” wing section from the YouTube video. Funny out of all the camera angles and video surveillance of that area, the one used as “proof” is a grainy, out of focus, out of relevant frame distance shot that happens to have an anomaly in it that in reality doesn’t show us a thing. Where are all the rest of the videos? Seems like the pentagon thing could be put to rest very easily, if it were truly “that easy”. And to our British brother, you are right, screwed up things happen daily and thousands die, so in that narrow and simplistic view the events of that day are forgettable. The problem with that approach is that the events of that day have not stopped. They are impacting our lives, and your life, everyday. Your tomorrow is being created from that moment. Your laws are being manipulated and changed right under your nose because of that catalytic event. Your brothers and sisters are dying TODAY still because of that. And more will die tomorrow in Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, and soon to come (hear the sabers rattling) N. Korea, Iran. How hard is it for anyone to see who “benefitted” from the events of that day? Was it really the “terrorists”??? NO, I submit to you it was the globalist terrorist high jacks of the worlds governments who are benefitting from the ignorance of the sheeple. How hard is it for you to understand that it is scientifically impossible for the government story to be true??? How ignorant to physics must you be to believe that the fire was so hot it melted steel I beams, yet 50 yards ABOVE (umm doesn’t heat rise??) there are living breathing people looking out the smoldering windows. I guess their melting point is higher than steel. Hmmm. • 1535ºC (2795ºF) - melting point of iron • ~1510ºC (2750ºF) - melting point of typical structural steel • ~825ºC (1517ºF) - maximum temperature of hydrocarbon fires burning in the atmosphere without pressurization or pre-heating (premixed fuel and air - blue flame) Guess those damn terrorist didn’t give a rats behind about the laws of physics. They straight high jacked the laws of nature along with that plane! Who’da thunk box cutters where that powerful!!! And what a great choice our sovereign nation choose to clean up the mess: “ On September 22, 2001 The City's Department of Design and Construction accepted a plan from Controlled Demolition Incorporated to remove and recycle the steel from the World Trade Center. Although vicims' families and fire safety experts decried the rapid removal of remains and recycling of steel Mayor Bloomberg defended the operation.” Well, what sets this company apart as the one worthy of such a task? Hmmm. I understand how scary it is to wake, only to find it is not a nightmare. I understand it is so much easier to tuck your head back in the sand so that you feel “safe”. You climb back into your little 4 walled box and watch you 24 hour brain washing devices and so long as no one “directly” effects your little creature comforts you would rather “get over it”. What perfect little sheep we have. And very disserving of the judgments to come. |
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Topic:
Cheney... WTF?
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Wow... For eight years he didn't seem concerned what Bush got this country into, two failed wars, failed foreign policies, the Gitmo fiasco, and a failed economy. But NOW Cheney's a concerned citizen? The real concerned citizens are the ones who voted for change in 2008...!
No offense pal but u are seriously mislead if you think you voted for "change". You bought the hype. The two political systems is NOTHING but a good cop bad cop SHOW, just like professional wrestling. An unintelligent, brain dead, easily deceived, hip hoppers ate the show up and voted in the most socialist admin this country has ever known. But not to fear, its not your fault, as long as the powers that be (and I mean the ones who pull the puppet strings of Cheney AAND Obama) keep Cheney out there and keep the attention off of what Obama is ACTUALLY VOTING FOR AND DOING; the brain dead masses will continue to smoke their blunts and play X box 360 and not realize he just REAUTHORIZED AND STREAGTHENED the "patriot act", which he promised to abolish while campaigning, Has his "legal team" working to change the laws where "prolonged detention" (aka, taking a accused "terrorist" to anywhere in the world they want secretly and holding them in jail to be tortured for 10 years; without due process, and this included AMERICAN CITIZENS SIR), he is actively passing legislation that says (and this is a direct QUOTE from his highest ranking cabinet member) " that if you are on the no fly list...because you are KNOWN TO MIGHT BE A MAYBE POSSIBLE TERRORIST you cannot buy a gun in the United States of American"... Are you serious???? That is the justification for denying second amendment rights??? Isn’t that a pretty damn BRAWD def???? So why is Cheney out there??? SIMPLE, the money masters know the mystique of Obama is going to wear off, and eventually people will want to see the record of what he is doing and has done. So they have to keep their sheeple focused on “how terrible Bush was” so that they don’t see what a monster of a dictator THEY just created until you wake up to find out that if you speak out against them, YOU are the terrorist, and the camps are quite ready for you sir. I suggest very strongly you do a search on a documentary called “The Obama Deception”, it is on you tube, and take an hour of your life to LISTEN to FACTS and EVIDENCE about what your Obama “god” has ACTUALLY DONE in his first 100 days. You know like sitting a 1200 pg bill before congress 3 mins before they had to vote, and then told them there would be MARTIAL LAW in America if this spending bill wasn’t passed. And when asked how they cam up with the 700 BILLION DOLLAR figure for the bill, again his cabinet official said, and I QUOTE “ it wasn’t derived from any particular data point, we just wanted to come up with a really big number…” Another words, we made it up so it would be impressive. And also, the money, oh the banks are using it to buy up the independent smaller banks and consolidating even more power, and much of the money simply, disappeared. Anyone who will argue politics based on party affiliation is a blind follower that is ignorant of reality. STUDY TO SHOW YOURSELF APPROVED. |
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Topic:
Fragments of Black
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Thank you all very much for the reply's
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Topic:
Financial aid Federal law?
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WTF! Who the hell made this stupid law? Applying for student loans is based on the parents income/tax returns up until the child/adult is 24 yrs old! Not sure I undrestand your frustration. A "parent" in a theoretical world is a responsible adult, that is RESPONSIBLE fo thier minor children and thier expenses. If a child is in school, they are still considered a DEPENDENT on thier parents taxes, etc etc until age 24 (cause again therortically that should be enough time to complete school). So for the income of those RESPONSIBLE for the person applying for a GOVERNMENT LOAN(AKA MY TAX DOLLARS) to pay for something that is for that child (AKA PARENTS DEPENDENT / RESPONSIBIBLITY), I think it is prudent for us to know if they really need the cash, or are just trying to get something for free, as is the case alot of times. And ther are alot of people who try to milk the system and take advantage of it. (not saying you of course) With that said, we live in a real world not a theoretical one, so that has screwed a few peeps up because thier parents are...crap. but it is what it is. Life is a crap sandwich, you either eat it, or ya starve. |
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Topic:
The Room
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great write Thank you, I'm glad you liked
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This write is beyond words Michael. Wow! is currently my only thought.  
Thank you very much 
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Topic:
McDonough Area
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Anyone else round here? I am
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I would like to see the speech without her ad-libbing it with her thoughts and movie clips. meant 4 this, (sorry hun, nothing personal, just some folks should wake the F up) I'm awake. What's wrong with wanting to see the speech in it's entirety without her thoughts and movie clips interrupting it? No, Bush was horrible also. Here is my premise. The Presidency, no matter who occupies the office really is irrelevent. The men behind the scenes who put them in power, the moneied intrest from the PRIVATE european banking house (aka "federal reserve") are controlling the political puppets. The Republican and democrate parties are simply playing good cop bad cop and keep us distracted and fighting eachother over things like abortion, gay rights, prayer in schools, etc etc etc, but in thier seats of power they march us straight on to the desolution of our union and constitution and are merging us into the larger world government that is controlled by them. So I hate them (bush, obama, republican, democrate) all the same. They are traitors to our constitution, our children, and our formerly great nation and should all be hung from the highest trees. Nothing at all 
Perhaps i misunderstood your context.... But she being the queen of liberalism and a major Obama supporter would not be one that i would say is "ad-libbing" to cause him harm. He is Hitler. The left is even waking up... I honestly don't know if she's a liberal or not. But..I do know that Obama is not Hitler.
I would of said what I said no matter who was talking. Obama may not "literaly" BE hitler; but he IS the new one. Just wait. America is dead. And we are eating the reamains of its rotting corpse. But it has to run out at some point... then what. Ohitlerbama I disagree with you. I don't think he is the new one. Are you one of the people that was pleased with Bush? I wasn't. |
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Topic:
The Room
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*Snap snap snap* Excellent! Thank you very much
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Topic:
Revolutionary Mindset
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good write Thank you 
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Topic:
Fragments of Black
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Fragments of black are not fragments at all, but all that I see as I walk this hall
In childhood a memory burns through my skin, taking me back from this place to him Him sitting watching wrestling in his underwear, with hatred with cornuts with whiskey with beer I timidly tiptoe to be by his side, to ask for a cornut to hear his reply GO TO HELL is still stinging though those years have past, and changed the reflection I see in the glass And even now tears from red eyes will fall, when I stop to remember that blackness and hall That once was my home and I guess now still is, cause I live in this place a scared little kid And in my reflection his face still haunts mine, and dreams of the banter still cut through my mind Did I really deserve to go to hell, for wanting some nurturing will someone please tell Or at night as I lay fighting demons in sleep, my sisters both eaten by things that I weep I show to the world a shame that’s my own, from memories taking me back to my home Is there yet away to escape from a place, that’s in every corner of intellects space Are fragments of black so deep they've composed, every pair of shoes and fresh change of clothes... ever to be lifted? |
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I would like to see the speech without her ad-libbing it with her thoughts and movie clips. meant 4 this, (sorry hun, nothing personal, just some folks should wake the F up) I'm awake. What's wrong with wanting to see the speech in it's entirety without her thoughts and movie clips interrupting it? Nothing at all
Perhaps i misunderstood your context.... But she being the queen of liberalism and a major Obama supporter would not be one that i would say is "ad-libbing" to cause him harm. He is Hitler. The left is even waking up... I honestly don't know if she's a liberal or not. But..I do know that Obama is not Hitler.
I would of said what I said no matter who was talking. Obama may not "literaly" BE hitler; but he IS the new one. Just wait. America is dead. And we are eating the reamains of its rotting corpse. But it has to run out at some point... then what. Ohitlerbama |
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America is plagued by a poor educational system, a corrupt and ineffective judicial system, a corrupt and ineffective congress, a greedy banking industry, a common sense deprived society without any work ethic,an over-taxed and over-regulated financial system regulated by under-regulated regulators, etc... I don't blame Russia at all for switching. I would switch too until I saw VAST improvments with America and their finances. Please spare me the drama. Have you seen our universities? Notice all the students with the last name Chan, Shanti, Champanasapun, or any other obscene combination of letters that makes any attempt at pronunciation futile. All these people left their country to come here to go to school. We aren't jumping the border to get into Mexico now are we? You want to see a corrupt law enforcement system, check out Mexico (I went as a study abroad student, the first thing I saw was my host brother at the age of 14 bribing a cop with a wad of bills, not the first time I saw that there), or better yet lets take a look at Russia. Hmm do you really trust Putin. After his term was up Medvedev won (he was Putin's chief of staff), suddenly and coincidentally Putin was made Prime Minister and the powers of the Prime Minister expanded...hmmm. Dude was head of the KGB in Germany during WW2, hmm some journalist printing anti-putin stuff ends up dead from radioactive poisoning... Our work ethic? Sure I sometimes have issue when I compare it to China and Japan, but compare it to European countries. When's the last time you got a siesta at work, or you had a 30 hour work week (most of France). Yes we have our issues too many people living off far too much credit, materialism commercialism etc. Capitalist systems promote greed but it also creates competition and jobs. I wouldn't go around saying oh the US is the greatest ever but we do a lot of things right, talk to more immigrants to get a better perspective. Of course this is so. The illusion of the American Dream is still unshattered and hasn't been revealed for what it really is. Do you think a materialistic and capitalistic economy happens without dumb labor? For most the American Dream it turns out is bit like the lottery the illusion of riches is with grasp, but very few ever get rich from it. In fact the like the lottery if the American Dream were possible for every one the capitalist American economy would collapse and the fat cat billionaires would be forced to live a life no better than the average person. Since their money gives them so much power and influence and money is lubrication of the political system nothing changes. And the brainwashed masses continue on like trained rats in maze with only one possible course. Only when the cycle is broken and multitudinous masses awake and pull back the curtain to reveal the real wizard will things begin to change. ...What he said... 
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Edited by
Michael1427
on
Sat 05/30/09 07:37 PM
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I would like to see the speech without her ad-libbing it with her thoughts and movie clips. meant 4 this, (sorry hun, nothing personal, just some folks should wake the F up) I'm awake. What's wrong with wanting to see the speech in it's entirety without her thoughts and movie clips interrupting it? Nothing at all
Perhaps i misunderstood your context.... But she being the queen of liberalism and a major Obama supporter would not be one that i would say is "ad-libbing" to cause him harm. He is Hitler. The left is even waking up... |
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Topic:
The Worm
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I once had a worm It was torn But I loved that worm Because it was torn I knew that there was a beautiful butterfly Waiting inside that worm I was going to nurture it Until its transformation I did all the things to care for a worm Fresh leaves, warm soil Have you ever pet a worm? Encouragement is hard to give to a creature that exists only to slither about, eating what it can and defecating its gluttony But I loved that worm Because it was torn I put so much of myself into that worm that i made one very big mistake I forgot, butterflies fly away, and some worms, are just worms. There is no explaining how the heart chooses. Flight, grief and in the end realization of the truth still belongs to the heart, no need for explaining. Love becomes the doing, rightly. I actually wrote this poem about my ex-wife LOL. Turns out she was just a worm.... |
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Topic:
The Worm
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Transformation feels soooo good!
Thank you
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