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| Topic: questions that believers are afraid to answer - part 2 | |
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I gotta give credit where credit is due. You and Abra have explained it about as well as most people can. I have tried transcendental mediation, so far I have been unsuccessful, I believe this is due in part by my tendency to ground myself to the physical world. Science shows us that all things are energy on some level, it also shows us that energy never ends, but instead changes form. So if one where to consider God not as a seperate entity, but insead as a state of being within ones self.To find God one must only look within their selves. "nadius" it sounds like you are saying that MAN IS GOD I'm not saying god is anything. Just pointing out possiblities. I happen to believe that we are energy myself and that energy doesn't end, instead it changes. |
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Creative, it is the vocabulary and knowledge that we are exposed to. In the human box of experiences, beliefs, perceptions, etc.... I have difficulty finding even a religion that describes this. And you know religions can be as far out of the box as one can get for the most part. I have been searching. I looked into chakras but it is not as complex as they make it to be. I have read a little on wicca, as they believe in drawing on the powers around us and in us but it is not as complex as this either. In other words with out being given the knowledge prior to the experience to describe it I can only use that knowledge I have to describe it and it fails miserably.
dragoness... 
Any 'box' is built with consistent and mutual agreement(s) of definitions(labels). The larger the consensus, the smaller the box. A fine example of this is currently displayed by all of the different denominations of Christianity. Each box(individual denomination) becoming smaller and smaller in focus, by deflection of that which does not fit their definition of 'ought'. When describing an experience of purely ethereal proportion, a material definition cannot ever accurately describe the event. It is like attempting to describe an apple pie's smell or flavor using only the knowledge one has concerning apple seeds and wheat grain. |
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Second, I never said I went outside of myself into another realm. I never talked of leaving myself at all. I am talking of getting to the core of self that is more than just thought, logic, emotion, etc.... Others call it spiritual, I call it energy/light. I have never left myself spiritually or otherwise to what you just described. So that leads me the third part of the post. "Dragoness" I described the universe as being as a fishbowl filled with energy that can tapped into to create reality...you said that if was like a fish bowl with no borders and that statement would indicate that you meant beyond the realm of energy into another plane of existence void of energy .. You misunderstood my meaning. I meant that to describe the energy as finite or capturable in a fishbowl would be inaccurate. Okay so I am not making my point well, I do apologize. It is energy. Not devoid of energy. It is an internal energy we all have. It is life energy. Living things have it. All things have energy but living energy is what I am talking about. I know you don't like labels...but it sounds wiccan to me Again you have the right to call it whatever you want to. Wiccans do believe in personal power. Don't send out negative thoughts because you get back what you send out times three so make sure you only send out positive power. They believe one should be very humble with their personal power. They also believe in many gods that are essentially one god or power of the universe. So they have no problems with religions with one god. They are accepting of others beliefs and will not ever try to "convert" others. They are more cautious of those who are interested and make them take time and learn before making them part of their group. I only studied the solitary practitioner part of it. It does not fit. I have to say this and it will sound presumptuous but mankind wants to make everything so dam complex. They take simple things and make it so complicated. Always applying rules and theories and great "understandings". What is wrong with the simple remaining simple and free of complexities. All religions do this for some reason. In the complexity, they actually lose some of the meaning behind the religion. I will not be offended if you want to call it wiccan, if that fits for you, you may call it whatever fits for you.
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In my experience with the energy of me. I became more intune with myself and my interactions with my surroundings. My effect on the world became obvious to me. Just being alive I have an effect on the world at a basic energy level. This thought led to others of the energy and what it does, how it interacts, etc... Benefit to you, probably none. Benefit to man in general. Maybe nothing unless they can recognize it in themselves and then make the follow through of realization. "Dragoness" sounds like you are describing the properties of energy ...in nature nothing goes to waste so energy will always be displaced or distributed around from place to place ...think of it like this ..energy no matter what it is have to pay taxes in energy ..the sun gives away energy and you absorb it in the form of heat or food intake ..beyond that it seens like you are talking about a life force like "THOUGHT" |
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funches responded:
except "creative soul" it's a catch 22 to your theory...once you have experience the unimaginable it's no longer unimaginable and therefore can be describe but one can not limit theirselves within the belief of the dictionary...even the dictionary has not describe words to their true meaning...
Once one has experienced the unimaginable, it is indeed no longer unimaginable. I would disagree with the 'catch 22' notion described here, funches. How could one choose to describe the experience without limiting themselves to the dictionary. In order to provide an understanding between the speaker and the listener, the speaker must use terms which the listener not only recognizes but also understands. Who would listen to someone's else's made up terminology? |
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Creative, it is the vocabulary and knowledge that we are exposed to. In the human box of experiences, beliefs, perceptions, etc.... I have difficulty finding even a religion that describes this. And you know religions can be as far out of the box as one can get for the most part. I have been searching. I looked into chakras but it is not as complex as they make it to be. I have read a little on wicca, as they believe in drawing on the powers around us and in us but it is not as complex as this either. In other words with out being given the knowledge prior to the experience to describe it I can only use that knowledge I have to describe it and it fails miserably.
dragoness...
Any 'box' is built with consistent and mutual agreement(s) of definitions(labels). The larger the consensus, the smaller the box. A fine example of this is currently displayed by all of the different denominations of Christianity. Each box(individual denomination) becoming smaller and smaller in focus, by deflection of that which does not fit their definition of 'ought'. When describing an experience of purely ethereal proportion, a material definition cannot ever accurately describe the event. It is like attempting to describe an apple pie's smell or flavor using only the knowledge one has concerning apple seeds and wheat grain. Exactly, creative, on the box information. I still would not describe it as ethereal but for a lack of a better description ethereal it can be. I think of outside of ourselves energy or experiences when I think of ethereal. And yes, it is like your example, I cannot give them a word for it because noone has given me an accurate word for it. I just know the experience of it. Like abra pointed out the kirlian photographs show living energy so someone else must know of it. But I have not spoken or read of them. |
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"Dragoness" if you can't describe your experience in any language then describe what benefits if any arosed out of the experience
I already did this in the second post on page 49 of part 1 of this topic. 
http://www.justsayhi.com/topic/show/57160?page=49 "Abracadabra" all you said was that you couldn't describe the experience ..and you also didn't have any benefits beyond what someone could obtain having a dream |
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Vibration?
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In my experience with the energy of me. I became more intune with myself and my interactions with my surroundings. My effect on the world became obvious to me. Just being alive I have an effect on the world at a basic energy level. This thought led to others of the energy and what it does, how it interacts, etc... Benefit to you, probably none. Benefit to man in general. Maybe nothing unless they can recognize it in themselves and then make the follow through of realization. "Dragoness" sounds like you are describing the properties of energy ...in nature nothing goes to waste so energy will always be displaced or distributed around from place to place ...think of it like this ..energy no matter what it is have to pay taxes in energy ..the sun gives away energy and you absorb it in the form of heat or food intake ..beyond that it seens like you are talking about a life force like "THOUGHT" Again I will say you can call it whatever you would like to call it. I am trying to help you understand and if I fail then you will use your logic. I describe it as human life energy, human because it is me that experienced the sensation of it. Thought is more complex then this energy it is basic, simple. |
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I gotta give credit where credit is due. You and Abra have explained it about as well as most people can. I have tried transcendental mediation, so far I have been unsuccessful, I believe this is due in part by my tendency to ground myself to the physical world. Science shows us that all things are energy on some level, it also shows us that energy never ends, but instead changes form. So if one where to consider God not as a seperate entity, but insead as a state of being within ones self.To find God one must only look within their selves. "nadius" it sounds like you are saying that MAN IS GOD I'm not saying god is anything. Just pointing out possiblities. I happen to believe that we are energy myself and that energy doesn't end, instead it changes. so "nadius" what are you trying to say...explain your point further |
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From running into people who have died and were confused somehow about what to do next, I'd have to say it is a combination of vibration and thought. They can telepathically communicate and it is possible to feel what they feel.
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Second, I never said I went outside of myself into another realm. I never talked of leaving myself at all. I am talking of getting to the core of self that is more than just thought, logic, emotion, etc.... Others call it spiritual, I call it energy/light. I have never left myself spiritually or otherwise to what you just described. So that leads me the third part of the post. "Dragoness" I described the universe as being as a fishbowl filled with energy that can tapped into to create reality...you said that if was like a fish bowl with no borders and that statement would indicate that you meant beyond the realm of energy into another plane of existence void of energy .. You misunderstood my meaning. I meant that to describe the energy as finite or capturable in a fishbowl would be inaccurate. Okay so I am not making my point well, I do apologize. It is energy. Not devoid of energy. It is an internal energy we all have. It is life energy. Living things have it. All things have energy but living energy is what I am talking about. I know you don't like labels...but it sounds wiccan to me Again you have the right to call it whatever you want to. Wiccans do believe in personal power. Don't send out negative thoughts because you get back what you send out times three so make sure you only send out positive power. They believe one should be very humble with their personal power. They also believe in many gods that are essentially one god or power of the universe. So they have no problems with religions with one god. They are accepting of others beliefs and will not ever try to "convert" others. They are more cautious of those who are interested and make them take time and learn before making them part of their group. I only studied the solitary practitioner part of it. It does not fit. I have to say this and it will sound presumptuous but mankind wants to make everything so dam complex. They take simple things and make it so complicated. Always applying rules and theories and great "understandings". What is wrong with the simple remaining simple and free of complexities. All religions do this for some reason. In the complexity, they actually lose some of the meaning behind the religion. I will not be offended if you want to call it wiccan, if that fits for you, you may call it whatever fits for you.
Dragoness I'm not trying to offend I'm just trying to point out how your experience may had some influences from within the box |
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Once one has experienced the unimaginable, it is indeed no longer unimaginable. I would disagree with the 'catch 22' notion described here, funches. How could one choose to describe the experience without limiting themselves to the dictionary. In order to provide an understanding between the speaker and the listener, the speaker must use terms which the listener not only recognizes but also understands. Who would listen to someone's else's made up terminology? but "creative soul" isn't the entire dictionary made up terminology?...or how many people can comprehend advance quantum physics? so do that mean those that can comprehend it must limit there explanation of it to the realm of the dictionary or do they come up with other terms and other ways to explain it ...you are using the dictionary as a leap of faith as to not to explain new knowledge like the religious use the bible to not explain beyond the context of the bible |
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Vibration? Wench Thank you for the help I guess one could think of it that way I still like to refer to it as light/energy. It is our core. We are alive so we have it. Even plants have a light of life. I do not see it in the physical sense but I felt it as energy. I know I am not doing so well here and maybe because it is a life experience many have not journeyed through. I just know that the day I felt it is the day all the thoughts of life from before it changed. I now know that I do not have to do anything, be anything, say anything, etc.... to be a part of this life force. It makes me part of it just being alive.
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Yes, Dragoness, I understand what you're talking about. I don't know what a thought looks like or actually feels like outside of a person, so I can't really say its not a thought, but I do know a conscious thought is not necessary to feel this vibrational essence. I felt it on people that are alive and well, one's that aren't.
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Vibration? "fiesty wench" are you horny ...oops I read the word wrong...sorry my bad ....sorryyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy |
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funch - you ass!
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Edited by
Dragoness
on
Sun 01/27/08 01:03 PM
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Second, I never said I went outside of myself into another realm. I never talked of leaving myself at all. I am talking of getting to the core of self that is more than just thought, logic, emotion, etc.... Others call it spiritual, I call it energy/light. I have never left myself spiritually or otherwise to what you just described. So that leads me the third part of the post. "Dragoness" I described the universe as being as a fishbowl filled with energy that can tapped into to create reality...you said that if was like a fish bowl with no borders and that statement would indicate that you meant beyond the realm of energy into another plane of existence void of energy .. You misunderstood my meaning. I meant that to describe the energy as finite or capturable in a fishbowl would be inaccurate. Okay so I am not making my point well, I do apologize. It is energy. Not devoid of energy. It is an internal energy we all have. It is life energy. Living things have it. All things have energy but living energy is what I am talking about. I know you don't like labels...but it sounds wiccan to me Again you have the right to call it whatever you want to. Wiccans do believe in personal power. Don't send out negative thoughts because you get back what you send out times three so make sure you only send out positive power. They believe one should be very humble with their personal power. They also believe in many gods that are essentially one god or power of the universe. So they have no problems with religions with one god. They are accepting of others beliefs and will not ever try to "convert" others. They are more cautious of those who are interested and make them take time and learn before making them part of their group. I only studied the solitary practitioner part of it. It does not fit. I have to say this and it will sound presumptuous but mankind wants to make everything so dam complex. They take simple things and make it so complicated. Always applying rules and theories and great "understandings". What is wrong with the simple remaining simple and free of complexities. All religions do this for some reason. In the complexity, they actually lose some of the meaning behind the religion. I will not be offended if you want to call it wiccan, if that fits for you, you may call it whatever fits for you.
Dragoness I'm not trying to offend I'm just trying to point out how your experience may had some influences from within the box You do not offend me at all funches at any level I have always been hesitant to explain it due to this difficulty, those close to me feel the effects it has had on me. A peace and strength that was not there before. I used be riddled by the thoughts and emotions I had all the time. I had to logic everything and analyze everything to death and in some senses I am still this way. I rely on my logical mind a lot.
If you feel my frustration, it is with my limited way of expressing what I am trying to describe. Not with you at all |
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QUOTE:
the original question doesn't ask why God is magnificent to you.. the original question ask if the universe didn't pop out of nothingness and had to have been created does that same logic applies to the creator and if the answer is "NO" then explain "WHY NOT" with a rational explanation if the universe didn't pop out of nothingness and had to have been created does that same logic apply to the creator? answer no and if the answer is "NO" then explain "WHY NOT" with a rational explanation no that same logic does not have to apply to the creator regardless of how the universe was created. ..er.. "imageorgiagirl" ..you forgot to explain rationally "WHY NOT" The answer is still no...and The other rational explaination is... because no one in the flesh at this time can prove/disprove that The Creator of the universe has a creator, nor can they prove/disprove that the Creator exists nor can anyone prove/disprove that The Creator or the universe have anything to do with the other.
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Vibration? "fiesty wench" are you horny ...oops I read the word wrong...sorry my bad ....sorryyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy 
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