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| Topic: Why is there? | |
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Why is there enough religion to incite war, but not enough religion to instill tolerance? I have the perfect book for this topic! email me if you want the title. Please share with the rest of us. Thanks. 
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The Bible is an extrapolation of man's inability to have an understanding of why...
It is the gross malfunction of mind which attempts to understand cause and effect, and the human condition. Used for war... used for peace... used for love... used for hate... USED That is pretty clear to me.... USED |
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Christianity is a cap stone upon Judaism, which doesn't contradict but rather clarifies Judaism.
Um Spider, I would agree that the overall message of Christianity does not contradict Judaism, but the specifics, particularly in one area very much do. Judaism is very clear that G-d is One, not three. "Hear, O Israel: G-d is our G-d, G-d, the One and Only." That prayer from the Bible is the most emphasized and clear cut expression of a singular G-d who is One. In addition in Jewish tradition a man can be a prophet or even a messiah, but turning a man into G-d is very near to idol worship. Beyond this point Judaism and Christianity share a very similar message and are indeed very supportive of each other. |
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Creative,
Perhaps we do have the ability to understand Why, if we are open to it. The Bible is a great resource to understand the human condition. The Bible is one of our greatest learning tools so it would be pretty foolish to not USE it to learn and grow as human beings. Why would you blame the Bible or religion for peoples foolish choices? Is it Jodi Foster's fault that John Hinckly decided to shoot Ronald Reagen in order to prove his love for her? People who hurt other people are not acting religiously. G-d is full of love and compassion and that is what He asks from all of us. The Bible is an extrapolation of man's inability to have an understanding of why... It is the gross malfunction of mind which attempts to understand cause and effect, and the human condition. Used for war... used for peace... used for love... used for hate... USED That is pretty clear to me.... USED |
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We USE history books to teach us history, we USE computers to be right here right now, does that mean there's something wrong with that? Using it for war, yes that's bad, but everything in life can be used for good or evil.
@ preciouslife, good points but I feel I must point out not all christians follow the trinity theory;^] |
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People who hurt other people are not acting religiously. G-d is full of love and compassion and that is what He asks from all of us. So, what am I to make of this "love and compassion" in light of Bible passages espousing G-d committed atrocities, or G-d decreed murder, genocide and/or enslavement of the Midianites, Amalekites, and other Canaanites? Upon reading these Biblical passages, I question whether G-d is asking for "love and compassion" from his followers, or blind obedience and subservience. I don't think these are mutually compatible. |
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Edited by
creativesoul
on
Sun 01/20/08 09:38 AM
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PreciousLife:
I want to respond to your last post... Creative,
Perhaps we do have the ability to understand Why, if we are open to it. The Bible is a great resource to understand the human condition. One may or may not have the ability to understand themself and the world as it happens around them... knowledge is built upon internalization(s), and is self-supporting as a result. It does not, however, validate anything other than what has been accepted as truth within. As a result, one can completely believe that one has understanding without having it. The Bible is a great resource for the human condition? Please, elaborate here... I do agree, although this is a very broad point. I doubt our individual specific understanding(s) of that statement are in agreement. The Bible is one of our greatest learning tools so it would be pretty foolish to not USE it to learn and grow as human beings.
I have seen people use it to learn how to justify hate... quite easy to do... the words contained are horrendous at times... egotistical 'guy in the sky' who has human emotion, without having human condition... Completely illogical, at best. Used with a little deductive reasoning, it becomes a very good paperweight or bookend. Foolish it is to believe that a 'God' is on the same thinking plane as a human. Why would you blame the Bible or religion for peoples foolish choices? Is it Jodi Foster's fault that John Hinckly decided to shoot Ronald Reagen in order to prove his love for her?
I have not blamed anyone for anything... or anything for anyone... 
Jodi Foster is not portayed as an omni-god... who can do whatever she chooses. Just because she chooses. There is no such thing as a 'perfect' creator of imperfection. People who hurt other people are not acting religiously. G-d is full of love and compassion and that is what He asks from all of us.
Is that right?  Perhaps you should read a little more of the love described in the Old Testament...
Turtlepoet:
How are you? EDIT: Hey whiteboy... 
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Oh I'm not bad, killing time on here educating about personal accountability before I start getting ready for the rally in Richmond tomorrow;^]
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The bible is a resource into the human condition......yes, it is an insight into the minds of the men of that time that wrote it. So yes, an insight into men's minds of that time it is.
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Turtle:
Rally? What rally are you participating in, if I may ask? |
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Edited by
Turtlepoet78
on
Sun 01/20/08 10:26 AM
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Turtle: Rally? What rally are you participating in, if I may ask? http://www.racsb.state.va.us/Alerts/2008/2008_1_21Rally.html It's about the underfunding of our mental health and rehabilitation services over the years;^] |
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Ahhh... Thank you!!!
Purpose is good...
Enjoy yourself... I gotta game to catch soon... gotta get ready... Peace, good seein' ya... |
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Edited by
Turtlepoet78
on
Sun 01/20/08 10:58 AM
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Ahhh... Thank you!!! Purpose is good...
Enjoy yourself... I gotta game to catch soon... gotta get ready... Peace, good seein' ya... True that, honestly I think it's one of the most important issues we're faced with here in VA. I posted about it several days ago in the current events section, guess no one here had an opinion on it;^] http://www.justsayhi.com/topic/show/68819 |
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Christianity is a cap stone upon Judaism, which doesn't contradict but rather clarifies Judaism.
Um Spider, I would agree that the overall message of Christianity does not contradict Judaism, but the specifics, particularly in one area very much do. Judaism is very clear that G-d is One, not three. "Hear, O Israel: G-d is our G-d, G-d, the One and Only." That prayer from the Bible is the most emphasized and clear cut expression of a singular G-d who is One. In addition in Jewish tradition a man can be a prophet or even a messiah, but turning a man into G-d is very near to idol worship. Beyond this point Judaism and Christianity share a very similar message and are indeed very supportive of each other. Isaiah 44:6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God. Notice that both God and his redeemer are called YVWH in this verse. Also notice that when they speak, they speak as one "I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God". To me, this is clearly Jesus and God speaking as one. In fact, the statement is very similar to the one recorded in Revelations. What does this verse mean to a Jew? (I am assuming you are jewish, I haven't read your profile) |
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More people have been killed in the name of Jesus Christ then any other person in history. Chew on that. So? Point being? You just supported my position, people have used Christianity as an excuse to kill people. Show me where a Christian is taught to kill non-believers. Show me where Jesus said "kill in my name". It's not possible, so Christianity was an excuse for murder, not a reason. More people have been killed in the name of Allah, but Allah isn't a person. More people have been killed by atheist regiemns (China, Russia, Vietnam, Cuba, Cambodia, Korea, etc). Don't believe me? Check a copy of Guiness World Records, it's in there. Or you could google "Democide" and do the research yourself. I wasn't talking to you specificly, just everyone in general. And if you want to get technical God and Allah are the same being. I hear that a lot...Allah admits to being fooled by Jews, my God is all knowing. My God taught tolerance to outsiders, Allah's position on outsiders changed throughout the Koran. They aren't the same God. Why is it that theologians say "Judeo-Christian" and not "Judeo-Christian-Islam"? Because Islam has many marked differences between itself and Judaism / Christianity. Christianity is a cap stone upon Judaism, which doesn't contradict but rather clarifies Judaism. God is all knowing? then why didnt he know that his most beautiful angel was goin to raise against him? if God is all knowing then why didnt see what his people were goin to in his name? Who said he did,nt know???
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Edited by
Lordling
on
Sun 01/20/08 11:48 AM
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Christianity is a cap stone upon Judaism, which doesn't contradict but rather clarifies Judaism.
Um Spider, I would agree that the overall message of Christianity does not contradict Judaism, but the specifics, particularly in one area very much do. Judaism is very clear that G-d is One, not three. "Hear, O Israel: G-d is our G-d, G-d, the One and Only." That prayer from the Bible is the most emphasized and clear cut expression of a singular G-d who is One. In addition in Jewish tradition a man can be a prophet or even a messiah, but turning a man into G-d is very near to idol worship. Beyond this point Judaism and Christianity share a very similar message and are indeed very supportive of each other. Isaiah 44:6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God. Notice that both God and his redeemer are called YVWH in this verse. Also notice that when they speak, they speak as one "I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God". To me, this is clearly Jesus and God speaking as one. In fact, the statement is very similar to the one recorded in Revelations. What does this verse mean to a Jew? (I am assuming you are jewish, I haven't read your profile) The title "Lord of Hosts" represents a separate, distinct attribute of YVWH, an aspect of His character, if you will: "For behold, He Who forms mountains & creates the wind & declares to man what are His thoughts, He Who makes dawn into darkness & treads on the high places of the earth, the LORD God of hosts (Sabaoth) is His name." (Amos 4:13) The title is used only twice in the New Testament, both in reference to final judgment; once in Romans 9:29 (which is just a requote of Isaiah 1:9) & in James 5:4.
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@ preciouslife, good points but I feel I must point out not all christians follow the trinity theory;^] Turtlepoet78, I am not that familiar with the exact beliefs of all the different denominations of Christianity, but wouldn't you say that the vast majority of Christians do believe in the Trinity? I am curious, which denominations don't believe in the Trinity? I know Unitarians don't, right? |
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Cuzimwhiteboy,
Before accusing G-d of murder and evil, perhaps it would be worthwhile to study what those nations did to warrant punishment. Its kind of like someone hearing that in 1944 the United States of America wiped out the German army brutally and relentlessly. What murderous and horrible evil people those Americans are. In history context is everything. Study the subject well before making judgments about G-d. So, what am I to make of this "love and compassion" in light of Bible passages espousing G-d committed atrocities, or G-d decreed murder, genocide and/or enslavement of the Midianites, Amalekites, and other Canaanites? Upon reading these Biblical passages, I question whether G-d is asking for "love and compassion" from his followers, or blind obedience and subservience. I don't think these are mutually compatible. |
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PreciousLife: I want to respond to your last post... Creative,
Perhaps we do have the ability to understand Why, if we are open to it. The Bible is a great resource to understand the human condition. The Bible is a great resource for the human condition? Please, elaborate here... I do agree, although this is a very broad point. I doubt our individual specific understanding(s) of that statement are in agreement. The Bible is one of our greatest learning tools so it would be pretty foolish to not USE it to learn and grow as human beings.
I have seen people use it to learn how to justify hate... quite easy to do... the words contained are horrendous at times... egotistical 'guy in the sky' who has human emotion, without having human condition... Completely illogical, at best. Used with a little deductive reasoning, it becomes a very good paperweight or bookend. Foolish it is to believe that a 'God' is on the same thinking plane as a human. Why would you blame the Bible or religion for peoples foolish choices? Is it Jodi Foster's fault that John Hinckly decided to shoot Ronald Reagen in order to prove his love for her?
I have not blamed anyone for anything... or anything for anyone...
Jodi Foster is not portayed as an omni-god... who can do whatever she chooses. Just because she chooses. There is no such thing as a 'perfect' creator of imperfection. People who hurt other people are not acting religiously. G-d is full of love and compassion and that is what He asks from all of us.
Is that right? Perhaps you should read a little more of the love described in the Old Testament...
Creative, "The Bible is a great resource for the human condition? Please, elaborate here... I do agree, although this is a very broad point. I doubt our individual specific understanding(s) of that statement are in agreement." Well the Bible discusses hundreds of years of all kinds of situations, scenarios dealing with all types of temptations as well as with our universal struggle to figure out what the right thing to do is in all kinds of situations. Its amazing how the great figures in the Bible struggled to do the right thing. Even when they did the wrong thing its amazing to see their motivation and how they learned from their mistakes. The Bible is all about how we are fallible human beings but we have the amazing capabilities to rise above and learn and grow. Its really sad that the emotional anger so many feel at religion is taken out on G-d and the Bible. It would be worthwhile to examine where these strong negative emotions are really coming from. Why would people repeatedly try and extrapolate from the situations in the Bible where war or justice was necessary? Why don't they ever mention the hundreds of situations that were filled with compassion, love and mercy? There clearly is an emotional obstruction when it comes to having an open mind about G-d and the Bible. I wrote: "Why would you blame the Bible or religion for peoples foolish choices? Is it Jodi Foster's fault that John Hinckly decided to shoot Ronald Reagen in order to prove his love for her?" Which you responded: "I have not blamed anyone for anything... or anything for anyone... Jodi Foster is not portrayed as an omni-god... who can do whatever she chooses. Just because she chooses. There is no such thing as a 'perfect' creator of imperfection." A few previous posters blamed the terrible things people did in the name of religion on religion. It is completely irrelevant when a Muslim, Christian or Jew says they are doing something in the name of religion, when their actions are clearly against what our Loving Creator would want. Creative I would suggest you read my response to Cuzimwhiteboy in response to the rest of your post. |
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Regardless to the plethia of information provided here by others. Religions are a major reason for war. Religions do not want you to believe it but they are. And even if it was not out right war, religions have caused a lot of blood on the ground throughout history and still to this day. Religions are often used as an excuse for war or bloodshed, but you really have to look at the teachings of a religion to judge if the religion incites violence or if the religion was used as an excuse for violence. spider, just by claiming to be right and true and the one and only way to heaven they are enciting a warring attitude. One cannot claim to be right and everyone else wrong at a level of religion and not be inciting war. Believers take this to heart. If they are right and everyone else is wrong and they die for the right, they have been told is right, they will willingly die, right? Justification for extreme violence is given solely on the fact their religion is the one true right religion. Look at the abortion clinic bomber...... he is justified right? Killed the killer, right? Religion at it's best there. Many more examples but I get upset by this one so I will leave it here. Unfortunately, I have to agree with Dragoness. I believe strongly in tolerence of all our differences- including the many religious beliefs. However, members of most religions seem to feel the need to explain to everyone else that they are wrong and will be punished. And extremists of many religions seem unable to just let others believe as they would; to the point where they will kill those who disagree with them. Peace.
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