Or is religion the occult?
Is there a difference in those 2 statements?
Is either correct?
Can the 2, ever coexist?
Or is it a case of either / or ?
Why does religion, claim to not like the occult and demonizes it?
Is this discussion even possible?
Is it the nature of the secrecy of the occult in society, that makes this discussion impossible or at least, more difficult than it perhaps need be?
It's a dichotomy I know, or is it?
Please discuss, any or all of the above

The word Occult can cover many areas, so I am not sure.
Wicca can be a religion or a way of life.
Satanism would be a religion.
Astrology, Tarot and the study of Energy work, and the like, is not a religion,but could be part of religions that also use tools.

Many people assume that anything associated with things considered to be Occult is considered to be worshipping the Devil, or some such nonsense.

They are too afraid and have pre-conceived notions of what it's about to actually find out what it's about.

Erm... maybe you should define 'occult'?
To me that's like the stuff you steer clear from, not good stuff and/or really freaky stuff.
So you put two extremes and want to compare them.
The other thing there is is spirituality / energywork/ Lightwork.

What makes discussion difficult is that people easily tend to judge and/or stick to that what they believe in to be the one and only truth. If people aren't open to accepting other people's view things will get difficult.

Hi Susan! Agree with that!

You make an excellent point, regarding, defining, the occult.
I could take a stab at it.
But I won't, for 2 reasons
Firstly, for the reason you mentioned, regarding peoples pre conceptions
And secondly,because , I did not invent the word
So what it means to people,as you sort of point out, maybe, just as telling as anything else. And I was sort of, just hoping to set the ball rolling, and was interested to see any discussion around it

Strange nobody asks for a definition of religion

supernatural, mystical, or magical beliefs, practices, or phenomena.
"a secret society to study alchemy and the occult"
synonyms: the supernatural, the paranormal, supernaturalism, magic, black magic, witchcraft, sorcery, necromancy, wizardry, the black arts, Kabbalah, cabbalism, occultism, diabolism, devil worship, devilry, voodoo, hoodoo, white magic, witchery, witching, orenda, mysticism; More
makutu;
raretheurgy
"his sister was a spiritualist with a strong interest in the occult"

adjective
adjective: occult

1.
of, involving, or relating to supernatural, mystical, or magical powers or phenomena.


So yeah, "The Occult" or what ever you want to call it is a form of religion.

"Occult", is commonly used as a buzzword
used by the media, to hype and sell stories.

No need to ask about religion.
It's living your life according to a book. That book was put together some 1900 - 1600 years ago (!!!!!) and people still believe it today.

There's nothing divine to it, it's made by a group of men -men, as in NO women were part of it- who came together to construe a creed. They decided what was to be in the book and what was to be left out, in other words: What suited them and their politics and power.
Later on it was adapted a few more times, again by men, not by god or any other divinity.
If you didn't go along with it you were killed in a horrible way.

So religion is people living according to rules that were made by a group of men donkey years ago and believing what those men came up with is the truth.

Religion is for adherents, people who need to be told how to act and what to believe. As has been pointed out the "Occult" is usually a catch all phrase usually used to denote something sinister or just a different approach to life.
Even as recently as 20 years ago the Buddhist centre in Todmorden was described using terms such as "Satanism" or "Black Magic".

Wow.
Buddhist centre being described as Satanism or Black magic is Insane!

Obviously, those people have no clue what Buddhism is.

Yes, it does seem strange, I guess some Buddhist imagery can look a bit frightening. Of course, this was in the aftermath of the "Satanic Panic". Now, it's a well-regarded local institution.

It probably has more to do with churchies condemning everything and anything that deviates from their own religion. More serious / extreme religious people tend to call that "evil" and "from the devil".
Just like another religion calls Western women "s|*t$" and worse for wearing shorts, and other clothes that are normal and decent to our society, which likely includes a shirt and trousers too.

Hi Seamus,
I'm glad it is a well-respected institution now. The fact that public views have changed so drastically in just 20yrs shows that the World is, indeed, changing, in reference to the mainstream accepting others' beliefs and lifestyles. I am glad!

Hi Crystal ,
Yes, I agree many very religious people tend to see all other beliefs, differing from their own as inherently evil from or somehow inferior to their own.
Not only does it show severe ignorance and arrogance.
Besides, how will they ever learn anything new if they put a ceiling on their beliefs?

I also agree with you on that being the case with ardent believers in many religions.
Your use of how extremist Muslims/Islamic see us is an excellent example.

Funny isn't it, that they are really the same regardless of their beliefs
But not surprisingly at all.

Yes, they are basically the same, regardless of which religion.
We condemn extremists for their action, but when we look at our own history... were we any different? Christian history is one of bloodshed, murdering tens of thousands, fear mongering and so on.
People tend to forget that it seems.

In a way I also feel it's more logical people from poor countries are more ardent believers. People in need, poor, starving, and whatnot need to have something to latch onto for hope.
But Western people should know better by now.

Change is coming, already happening, but it's going to take time.


Occult to me is more the darker things. Things I steer clear of.
Spirituality is also a difficult one as many people have different interpretations of what that means as well.
These days I prefer to speak of "Intuitive and personal growth & development". A little easier to digest, less vague for most. And it is what spirituality comes down to, for me at least.

R2d2r2d2, interesting philosophical discussion topic.
I once did some light research into occult as a forum moderator for a horror film community.
The way I see it.
Religion is a cult.
Cult: a system of religious veneration and devotion directed toward a particular figure or object.
Occult: supernatural, mystical, or magical beliefs, practices, or phenomena.
Religion: the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods.

During my research I came across some terminology that actually pertains to your question. Think about the following as to how it pertains to religion as well:

Animism
Religious practices based on the belief that all living things and natural objects have their individual spiritual essence or soul.

Apparition
A visual appearance (cf. hallucination), often of a person or scene, generally experienced in a waking or hypnagogic / hypnopompic state.

Aura
A field of energy believed by some to surround living creatures. Certain clairvoyants claim to be able to see the aura (generally as a luminous, coloured halo).

Cerebral Anoxia
Lack of oxygen to the brain, often causing sensory distortions and hallucinations. Sometimes used to explain features of the near-death experience.

Channeling
Receiving messages and inspiration from discarnate entities.

Clairvoyant Medium
Or clairvoyant. A person who obtains information paranormally (often by spirit communication) without the need to enter into a trance state.

Cosmic Consciousness
A blissful experience in which the person becomes aware of the whole universe as a living being.

Curse
Words spoken or written in order to influence others paranormally, causing them harm.

Daemon (Daimon)
A guardian spirit who communicates inspiration and advice.

Death
Generally understood to be the extinction of an organism's life. Many doctrines assert some form of mental or spiritual survival of physical death.

Drop-in Communicator
An uninvited communicator who 'drops in' at a sitting.

Exorcism
A religious or quasi-religious rite to drive out evil spirits.

Extradimensional
Originating outside our normal space-time reality.

Extrasensory Perception (ESP)
Paranormal acquisition of information. Includes clairvoyance, telepathy and precognition.

Fortean Phenomena
Strange phenomena, especially those which challenge conventional scientific knowledge. Named after the American researcher and writer Charles Fort. Fortean phenomena include those generally considered paranormal, but also bizarre non-paranormal events such as monsters and prodigies, extraordinary coincidences, and unusual rains.

Ghost
Popular term for an experience believed to indicate the presence of the spirit of a deceased person.

Glossolalia
Unintelligible speech generally uttered in a dissociated or trance state. Also known as "speaking in tongues".

Guide
A spirit who is believed to assist a person's spiritual journey

I Ching
Ancient Chinese "Book of Changes". It describes 64 hexagrams (patterns of 6 broken and unbroken lines) which are used in a divinatory practice involving the throwing of yarrow stalks or coins.

Immortality
Various beliefs based on the assumption that some aspect of personal existence survives death.

Incorruptibility
Inexplicable lack of decay in a corpse.

Invocation
Summoning benevolent spiritual beings.

Karma
Hindu and Buddhist ethical doctrine of "as one sows, so shall one reap".

Luminous Phenomena
The experience of strange lights or glows, often around objects or people.

Mantra
A sacred sound or sacred syllables used in meditation.

Medium
A person believed to act as an intermediary between discarnate entities and the living.

Miracle
A beneficial event attributed to supernatural or divine intervention.

Mystic
(a) A person who has mystical experiences.
(b) Used loosely to refer to psychics, mediums or romantics.

Near-Death Experience (NDE)
Experiences of people after they have been pronounced clinically dead, or been very close to death. Typical features of the NDE are an OBE, life review, a tunnel experience, light, coming to a boundary (marking death), seeing dead friends and relatives, experiencing a loving or divine presence, and making a choice (or being told) to return. Occasionally NDEs can be frightening and distressing. NDEs often have profound effects on the person's later life.

Occam's Razor
The principle that we should always prefer the simplest explanation of events.

Occultism
Esoteric systems of belief and practice that assume the existence of mysterious forces and entities.

Omen
A sign that foretells events.

Oracle
(a) An answer to a question, believed to come from the gods.
(b) a shrine at which these answers are given.

Ouija Board (weeja)
A board with letters and numbers on which messages are spelled out by unconsciously moving (with the fingers) a glass or planchette.

Out of Body Experience (OBE, OOBE)
A fully conscious experience in which the person's centre of awareness appears to be outside of the physical body.

Paranormal
Beside or beyond the normal. Inexplicable in terms of our ordinary understanding or current scientific knowledge.

Possession
Refers to cases in which a person's body is apparently taken over by another personality or entity.

Prayer
A sincere attempt to communicate with a spiritual being or power.

Premonition
An experience believed to foretell future events.

Presence
A subjective feeling that a person, animal or discarnate entity is present.

Psi
A term used to encompass all paranormal abilities. Includes both ESP and PK abilities.

Psychometry
Obtaining paranormal knowledge using a physical object as a focus. Also known as object reading.

Sceptic (Skeptic)
A person inclined to discount the reality of the paranormal and to be critical of parapsychological research. Generally seeks rational or scientific explanations for the phenomena studied by parapsychologists

Shaman
A witchdoctor or medicine (wo)man who communicates with spirits while in trance and who has the power of healing. May also show other paranormal abilities.

Soul
The spiritual element of a person, generally believed to be immortal.

Spirit
(a) a discarnate entity.
(b) soul
(c) Divine essence.

Subliminal Perception
Perceiving without conscious awareness.

Tarot
A special deck of cards (usually 78) used in fortune telling.

Theurgy
Magical practices which aim to contact and communicate with the gods.

Transcendental Meditation
A technique of meditation taught by Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, involving the repetition of a sound (mantra).

Vision
A religious apparition.

Voodoo
A spiritist and ancestor religion, originating in Africa, and now found predominantly in Haiti, Jamaica and Cuba. Magical rites, trance states and possession all play a major role in Voodoo.


White Noise
A hiss-like sound, formed by combining all audible frequencies.

Wicca
System of witchcraft, especially as practiced today in western countries.

Xenoglossy
The ability to speak or write in a language that has not been learned.

SOURCE: http://psychicscience.org/paraglos

society itself has been trained within each separate culture in ways one should behave based upon Faith beliefs.

until the just the past 20 years or so, the 10 Commandments once stood for Centuries to both Non-Believers and Believers since the 10 Commandments used to be on/in your local CourtHouse/Rooms. even some public school institutions displayed the Commandments for literally Centuries.

so American Society was already SHAPED by the idea of those COMMANDMENTS whether one accepts it or not.


NOW,
look since there is no longer displays in PUBLIC SCHOOLS of the 10 Commandments:

literally 2 years after being FORCED to remove ALL REMINDERS of the COMMANDMENTS, we have Columbine, and now over 20 separate SCHOOL SHOOTING INCIDENTS, we have people 20 and UNDER grabbing guns and blasting highways, places to eat, movie theatres.


YOU KNOW WHAT, MAYBE THOSE FREAKS NEED TO HAVE A REMINDER OF HOW TO TREAT OTHERS SINCE THEY CLEARLY DON'T HAVE A CLUE.

MAYBE IF YOU LIKE OR HATE THOSE 10 COMMANDMENTS THEY STILL DID A JOB TO SOME PEOPLE AND KEPT THEM FROM MURDERING THEIR OWN MEMBERS OF CULTURE SOCIETY!!

YOU PEOPLE MAKE THE SMALL HAIRS ON MY NECK STAND UP DUE TO JUST HOW DAMAGING TO OTHERS YOU TRUTHFULLY ARE!!

that is much like saying what is the difference between meditating in martial arts vs meditating in buddhist prayer?

there is a major league of difference.

self defense meditation is about your kata, prayer meditation is for the soul.

so the 2 are not even remotely close.

as would be the same for relationship vs religion/occult practices.

since i've seen you mention Occam's Razor twice, once to me, you know we use this practice on our calculators all of the time. the answers that look like .1368888 where the 8 continues, generally its a 6. that continuation is the point i use Occam's Razor philosophy and round my first 8 to a 9, or generally 6 to a 7.

The occult is nothing more than hidden knowledge. There can be something mystical or supernatural in some knowledge, but all hidden knowledge is not. There is much that out own government keeps from us, and that knowledge could be referred to as occult, but you would not say this knowledge is supernatural.....unless you know something that I do not.

This is the closest I see so far to the historical source of the word "occult," as well as to how that word came to be associated with the various things that people think of when it is said today.

The word itself goes back to the Latin word occultus ("clandestine, hidden, secret").

It is commonly used both to refer to what IS HIDDEN, and to what people think SHOULD BE hidden, often as not.

Going back to R2D2r2d2's original question, there can be "occult" knowledge or concepts that are a PART of a given religion, and there can be entire religious beliefs that people think or want to be "occult," or "hidden away."

Some parts of some religions are hidden from all but the topmost leaders, because a great deal of knowledge and experience is required (at least in the minds of those hiding the stuff they are hiding) before someone can deal with them without going nuts. Some parts of religions are "occulted" because the leaders fear that newer followers will be driven away or lost if the "occult" stuff were formally and openly talked about.

And there are some religious things that are made "occult," or hidden, just for the sake of making the leaders seem more powerful or "cool.

Ironically, much of what is called "the occult" nowadays, has nothing to do with secrecy or "hidden" knowledge, it just has to do with stuff the people in power
disapprove of.

Or with toys that Hasbro wants us to buy.