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| Topic: The Defective Scenario | |
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Edited by
The Wrong Alice
on
Thu 03/28/19 12:37 PM
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The dark ages huh?
Was that in Elisabtheian times? When she was pals with Dr Dee I mean Shakespeare's the Tempest is based on this right? I agree with you on many things Ms harmony. But it is here, that our opinions go in completely opposite directions Namaste Oops I got the s and the z wrong, apparently that's quite a big deal And no, the dark ages was before that, but it still applies as regards your mobile phone analogy https://youtu.be/E9Q_hzOPfAk ☝ Reality poem - Linton Kwesi Johnson |
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Namaste.
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Eve broke that agreement with God when she partook from the fruit of knowledge. The first sin. Right? My question is why was the tree with the fruit of knowledge even there if man was not supposed to take sustenance of it? Consider this: I as a lowly man, know if I do not want my children playing with something, I put it out of their reach. It only makes sense, right? Wouldn't a God have a higher understanding? Why was the tree with the fruit of knowledge even available if it was not meant to be found? We are talkin bout God here, not yer average human being. Maybe I'm missing something? It just only makes sense if you don't want yer kids playing with something ya don't put it where they can get to it. Consider this, Perhaps man was intended to partake in the fruit of knowledge and is intended to use that knowledge in a quest to reach a desired level of understanding? If that is the intention, where is the sin? How do we know when we have reached the intended target? Perhaps the tree of knowledge we have been warned about is not a sin but a way to find grace in the eyes of our creator? What if we are expected to become more than what we are now? What if the whole purpose of life is to achieve an understanding that is currently unknown to us? What if we are still in learning mode? There are PEOPLE that would like you to believe you are a sinner. There are people that want you to believe the end is upon us. What if we are only a fraction of the way we are supposed to go? How could you know? Is that man that tells you he is holy to actually be believed? Is the scripture intended as the single most word on the will of the creator or is it a transcript of how man has interpreted its meaning? Where do you draw the line? At what point do YOU try to interpret the mind of God? What gives you the authority? Consider this: Humanity has in effect, proliferated to 6.8 billion souls. Is there any reason why a God would want this? Unless we haven't reached the point God intended us to be? I mean, we're talking about God right, not a politician. A God that put all of existence into reality. Created the heavens and the Earth. A God that is able to create everything from nothing. This God, able to do all that, MUST be able to govern its own creation. If not, Is it really God? As it is, reality, I have a lot of trouble with some of the ideas that make up the foundation of my belief. Sadly, I watched a film tonight that tried to suggest that we are at the limits of God's intentions. (Summerland Project aka Amelia 2.0) The issue I have is not with the statement but with the implication. How could any man know the actual will of God? Why should we believe any man that claims to know to will of God? At what point do we draw the line? How can we ever know the actual word of God? Perhaps, we were never meant to? Perhaps, we are only supposed to know the word of man? Perhaps, we are only intended to know what we need to know to advance to a level at which God has originally intended. Perhaps when we reach that level of understanding, God will no longer be a question? Who really knows? Ahhh. God.. which one Tom.....cause you see the rules change for each See my point..which is the right God , tom ? LOL, any God you want. See, the force that I call God is way beyond such childlike motives. Its not a he or she but a force. A condition that is yet unidentifiable. It has no motives and humans, the Earth, the galaxy and time is merely an effect of a simple change of state. There is no meaning behind anything, except that which we create. We are a mere flash (not even a flash really) in the resultant events from that one initial change of state. No more significant than a particle of dust's influence on the galaxy. My OP was to the religious minded. It was a look at how human their impression of God is. How that God is ruled by humanistic values and morals so it fits in with us. So convenient. In my mind, God pay no attention to us. We are an insignificant non-event. An oops, what was that, oh, nothing, don't bother with it. We are not even a smudge on the Universe. We will be gone without a trace, long before any God might even consider we might have existed. Our civilization has only existed at most 10,000 years in the scope of a Universe that has existed for over 13.7 BILLION years. Just do the math. Then, look at our footprint. We inhabit one tiny, itsy-bitsy planet in an insignificant star system in an insignificant galaxy of BILLIONS. It makes absolutely no sense, no sense at all why we would be so special in 3,000 years to garner a God's attention. Sorry, that's wishful thinking. |
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If I did believe in some sort of God, that would probably be it. But why believe in something like that? Why not believe there is a teacup floating in space on the other side of the sun, in a position where it cannot be seen by any telescope from earth or from any orbit around earth? It seems just as unlikely and is just as impossible to prove.
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Much of the Bible is intentionally mysterious. It is up to you to find the meaning, depending on how you interpret reality. Everyone perceives the world differently.
The defective scenario I think I see what you are saying. To me the garden of Eden is kind of like growing up and moving out of the house. I agree it is defective, mainly because of who we are as lone individuals as we are, left to find inspiration wherever we can, with walls between each other’s minds. We are desired, however, to come exactly as we are, forget for a moment our own opinions, and jump on the freight train of God’s will steered not by forces of man. |
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Edited by
The Wrong Alice
on
Sun 03/31/19 12:25 PM
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Interesting choice of words Arvedson
Is it possible that religion is 1 of the things, that causes the walls between the minds And in forgetting everything, for what we desire, in an act of tantric union Do we not transcend these walls, and in fact in the act of forgetting, instinctively remember, all we really need to know And isn't that, truly divine!?! A wise man once said... Paradise is not a place, it is a state of consciousness |
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Humans can use anything to build metaphorical walls.
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Edited by
Narlycarnk
on
Sun 03/31/19 04:02 PM
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Is it possible that religion is 1 of the things, that causes the walls between the minds Yes, it does not have to, but it can. Religion even crucified Jesus. Religion is not all there is in life, but it can be useful for building bridges as well as walls for spiritual health and even sanity. |
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https://youtu.be/HsffxGyY4ck
 Within you, without you
The Beatles Sergeant Peppers Lonely Hearts Club Band You've got to love George Harrison Why are the pulse of emergency lights, the police etc. Set to the rhythm of 5s and 3s? Common in Indian music, but in the west, it's nearly all 4 on 4 Let's us transcend these walls Oh Lord Ganesha, please help us |
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And while we are sort of, on the subject
Check this out https://youtu.be/UOFoQ70m6Z8 The musical pillars of Hampi That's an ancient Hindu Temple, by the way, albeit, relatively modern by Hindu temple standards. Amazing |
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Edited by
tombraider
on
Mon 04/01/19 10:21 AM
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A thought..If God is all knowing then it only stands to reason that he already knew what was going to happen before it did..so what's the problem..either that or it was a design flaw which would make it his fault..lol...  Do you think God has a sense of humor.. <--- he made me say it..lol...jk
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Maybe the Hindus are right, and we are all a part of Brahmas dream.
So in that case, God is actually asleep, so I guess he can't be held responsible. But I sure wonder what happens when he wakes up |
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Does God sleep?
Sleep is a requirement for human belings and nost higher level brain functioning critters on this plane but does God actually sleep? OR, is this an assignment of human needs on a God? The next question is what makes you think God has a gender? Gender is determined in animals by chromosomal arrangement. Who say's God has chromosomes? But, lets go with the idea that man was created in God's image. This means that for all intents and purposes, God must be a man. Now, lets consider all the powers religion assigns to God. Those powers are based on man's assessments. Is this all there is to God? What mankind can imagine? Or is God something else, something beyond the scope of man's understanding? Religion will tell you you can't know the mind of God but it attempts to define the will of God over and over again. Where is the line drawn? When does religion admit it doesn't know? How does that apply to you in the here and now? At what point does reality take precedence over religion? Where is THAT line drawn? What if someone steps over that line? Could there be a God? Sure, why not? Is God what religion says it is? Probably not even close. |
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Could there be a God? Sure, why not? Is God what religion says it is? Probably not even close. I would argue that yes, there possibly *could* be such a being of some sort but nobody has any accurate idea of what this God really is, so on the principle of Occam's Razor it is a great deal more likely that the whole 'God' idea is an invention of us humans, in part to scare children into behaviour. I certainly don't accept the reality of any such being. Life is much simpler that way! 
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Could there be a God? Sure, why not? Is God what religion says it is? Probably not even close. I would argue that yes, there possibly *could* be such a being of some sort but nobody has any accurate idea of what this God really is, so on the principle of Occam's Razor it is a great deal more likely that the whole 'God' idea is an invention of us humans, in part to scare children into behaviour. I certainly don't accept the reality of any such being. Life is much simpler that way!
I see you point and have argued the same thing. Religion is a social construct for a social species that has reasoning ability. It helps bring order to a society. My concept of the God 'entity' is purely based on my ignorance of reality. I don't know what started it all. The initial spark. In this Universe there are commonalities that shouldn't remain static. The fundamental forces of nature for instance. All thru the Universe there is constant change. The fundamental forces (laws) of nature do not change. That lack of change is inconsistent with an entropic Universe. Even the entropy itself is changing... http://www.researchgate.net/figure/The-entropic-paradox-The-entropy-of-the-universe-is-increasing-Therefore-in-the-future_fig5_278659557 yet the fundamental laws of nature remain static. Is there a force or condition that prevents their evolution or is it by design? Since nobody knows, I call that unknown God. Others can call it what they want. As far as I am concerned, y'all can believe in your God all you want, its your God. If you choose not to believe in God, that's okay with me too. My main issue with any religion is that while I can allow others to believe as they want, I am not permitted the same. Religion is an attempt to create and maintain a unified society. If you think about it a lil, it makes sense and it is very effective. The problems arise when you try to align what you're told with the reality you experience. Religion only makes sense as long as you go along with it, the moment you start to think rationally, individually, it breaks down. This is because religions are trying to unite their society in conformity. A society in conformity, does not question. As the public become better informed (via media), the conformity is questioned by the individual. Patriotism unites society too. Patriotism only works as long as the individual never questions the information given. |
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Edited by
Narlycarnk
on
Tue 04/02/19 06:52 AM
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Yes, religion is a way to build bridges. And, one has to use diplomacy and tact to avoid too much contention.
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Yes, religion is a way to build bridges. And, one has to use diplomacy and tact to avoid too much contention. Diplomacy and tact are social constructs. Reality is not diplomatic nor tactful, its reality. In your face; harsh, real and without concern for feelings. Religions (and other societal endeavors) attempt to soften or at times, ignore reality. When reality gets through the facade it usually causes stress to those that hide behind society. Reality just is. It doesn't care. It doesn't have a plan for or against you. |
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I both agree, and beg to differ
As far as Constantine's Christianity goes, I totally agree But what about various Shamanic practices that go back to antiquity in practically every place on earth. Not to mention sacrifices and such The reality is, once again, we cannot really have this conversation But why R2 Because Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition |
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Yes, religion is a way to build bridges. And, one has to use diplomacy and tact to avoid too much contention. Diplomacy and tact are social constructs. Reality is not diplomatic nor tactful, its reality. In your face; harsh, real and without concern for feelings. Religions (and other societal endeavors) attempt to soften or at times, ignore reality. When reality gets through the facade it usually causes stress to those that hide behind society. Reality just is. It doesn't care. It doesn't have a plan for or against you. You strengthen me with your posts about the hard, vivid reality, which are full of wonder. |
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Yes, religion is a way to build bridges. And, one has to use diplomacy and tact to avoid too much contention. Diplomacy and tact are social constructs. Reality is not diplomatic nor tactful, its reality. In your face; harsh, real and without concern for feelings. Religions (and other societal endeavors) attempt to soften or at times, ignore reality. When reality gets through the facade it usually causes stress to those that hide behind society. Reality just is. It doesn't care. It doesn't have a plan for or against you. You strengthen me with your posts about the hard, vivid reality, which are full of wonder. If you find strength in reason, more power to you but I have nothing to gain or lose. I found out the hard way that what I believe and reality are two very different things. My own sanity hinged on my ability to accept the cold harsh reality as it is and try to build my life within its limits. No matter which associations I assign to reality, reality always progresses on its own path. I can fight it, I can substitute my own delusions so I can cope with it, But, when its all said and done, reality is always going to be reality whether it agrees with my ideas of it or not. To embrace reality is to give me peace of mind. |
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