I disagree. I don't believe grandma gave her several hundred dollars for the VIP section of the club and for the hotel to get pregnant again after. I can tell you that my mother wouldn't have babysat for me to be lay up in a hotel servicing men I met in a bar.

The girl brought home one of our coworkers to spend the night when he bought pot from the family. I can tell you in my home we don't sell pot or bring home strange men to spend the night.

because its one of the qualifiers for receiving assistance, and so many have been referencing people they allegedly knew on assistance, and going on to complain about what POSSESSIONS they saw them with or events they saw them attend.

here is the thing Miss harmony

People going through hard times are not worried about material possessions.

They are not concerned about their next vacation

what they are concerned about is putting food on the table, keeping a roof over their heads, and how little johnny and susie is getting enough to eat before they go to school and after school.

They are not out looking at the latest devices or which cruise offers the best ocean side view

those on public assistance and is looking for the latest phone, TV and other things should be ashamed of themselves.

they sure arent, so why ASSume they are?

people fall on hard times who happen to have MATERIAL POSSESSIONS, people fall on hard times who may have already PLANNED VACATION

People who fall on hard times may know people who see them struggle and want to help them do or have something nice or enjoyable ...

but the condescending dont care about the details, only the appearances, because of ASSuming the poor do not 'deserve' any of those 'luxuries' in life until they prove their value with a paycheck.

I remember when I was living in the north east and was getting assistance.
There wasn't any money to give the kids the allowance they were used to getting.
My youngest son, would go hang out at Aldi's grocery store and offer to help people load their groceries into their cars if the would let him keep the kart quarter. He did this on his own. He wanted things and knew we couldn't afford to buy them for him so he took the initiative to figure out a way to get his own money.
The other two boys worked on local farms.

What really got me was when these children got their pay, they contributed to the family. They gave money to their sister, paid for movies, bought treats for family night. We didn't make them, they did it on their own.

This is because they knew if they want things they need to work to get them.
None of my kids have been unemployed for an extended period. They know they need to cut back if they can't afford to make ends meet.

I don't know the circumstances of every welfare recipient. What I do know is that SOME recipients are thriving on welfare. They are thriving because they are getting welfare AND working/earning other money off the books.
The system doesn't/can't account for any assets that are NOT CLAIMED. It ASSumes the applicants are being honest in reporting.

The PROBLEM is some people are not honestly in need of assistance. You CAN see that just by LOOKING around you.

When you apply for a loan or a credit card the lender is judging you. They are judging you on your ability to pay their money back to them.
Why shouldn't welfare recipients be judged on their need to have our money given to them with no intent to repay us?
Would you walk up to someone dressed to the nines with bling all over them while holding the latest phone in a high end mall and GIVE them $50 no questions asked? Wouldn't you look at them and ASSume they don't need it?
How many times have YOU done that?
Yet, that is what is happening with a lot of welfare recipients.
Then you try to defend them, saying not to judge them for their lifestyle?
And when someone points out the extravagance, you call them names and pass your own judgement on their personality as worthless or insignificant.

Your current arguments lack validity.
I think you are so determined to argue your point that you refuse to see reasonable argument points. You are so determined to defend fraudsters because you believe the adage: "But for the Grace of God go I" but welfare is not the Grace of God it is the grace of taxpaying citizens.

there you go again with your moral superiority Miss Harmony, telling me what I should have empathy for? wow.

I have empathy for people who are actually poor, and Ive done things to help them, I just dont advertise it because its done from the heart, I have deja vu as I explained this to viper in another thread.

I have no empathy for those on welfare that desires more things because they dont want work for it

I despise welfare cheats, I look down at them, I'm condescending to them I admit it.

I think they are a pieces of Shite that plagues decent society.

Im not jealous or envious of those people, like I said many times I despise them

And greed, oh please

tell me who isnt greedy? greed exists in all societies and there is nothing wrong with greed, well not greed at the expense of others

I own a company and I want to make more money than my competitors I want to kill my competitors business I dont care for them I want to make all the money for myself , Im not interested in sharing profits with my competitors

If they beat my azz in business I say God bless and congrats you deserve it, the difference is I expect other business out there my competitors to try and kill my business and profit for themselves.

that is good because in the end the consumer wins and society is better off, now if I jump into bed with the government to kill my competitors that is wrong and that greed at the expense of others is bad.

Greed at the expense of others is bad

Greed as in I want to make the money because of serving others is good.

always changing the subject adding this adding that, okay lets play your game.

Lets pretend its me who has fell on hard times....

I own a home in Toronto, its free and clear, lets pretend that I put a mortgage on my home because I wanted to get into the Rental real estate property business , even though I dont know much about property rentals but I know its lucrative.

5 years later my rental property business goes bust, and I cant pay my mortgage , I cant sell because the market is depressed and I go on welfare.

Ive hit hard times, and I paid for a vacation prior to me going bust , according to you its okay to go on the vacation and I understand that, but here is the reality, most that falls on hard times are not going vacation, they could care less about the vacation, they are concerned about surviving.

They would sell the vacation for some cash flow, because survival is important.

now if Im on welfare and then I save for a vacation, you are telling me that you dont see a problem with that?

kudos to you ..

lol ... JAYSUS

sure.. theres a problem IF you save up while on welfare, you got me

now if only people looking on the outside actually KNEW thats what you did before judging you for being on vacation ...

The condescension is not the issue even tho it exists.
The issue is the reality in the real world that can be witnessed by anyone willing to look.
The condescension comes from people realizing the blatant fraud that seems to saturate the community.

I've been to WIC.
I've been to Welfare offices.
I see the cars and people that go there.
I've watched them outside on their phones, dealing with their kids and meeting up. I see how they are dressed.
When I got food stamps, I got food STAMPS.
They were 'funny money' and anyone that watched me pay for my groceries knew I was on assistance. It was embarrassing but I had no choice.
When I got WIC I received a store voucher and had to get the approved items only.
When my church helped me with my electric bill they paid the electric company on my behalf.
They didn't just give me money.
I was constantly being judged but I knew I was using someone else's money to live and it was that judging that inspired me to find a way to make my own way in life without needing other people's money to do it.

Trust me, condescention motivates me too. I probably have the LEAST patience for people looking down their noses at the poor ... and micro managing what they should have or where they should go. its like an emotional slavery (Because I contribute to the large TAX revenue, and my money MAY be the money you paid for the candy bar with, I should dictate you cant have a candy bar,, its not "poor enough")

those types burn my butt, quite frankly, and if and when I am in a position, my sole charity will be the impoverished lifting them up emotionally as well as financially by supporting their ability to have 'luxuries' while simultaneously trying do better to provide their NEEDS.

I'm not questioning your honor.
I (and others) are questioning your ability to see what is around you.
Questioning why you would even try to defend blatant fraud?
The issue isn't the TV or the phone.
Those are merely examples that show the blatant fraud.

The issue is people that abuse emergency assistance when they demonstrate that they don't need it.
The issue is people that work the system to get assistance 'in lieu' of earning their own way.
Its not that people sometimes need assistance.
Its the fact that some people get assistance and don't need it.
Its meant to be the last resort.
Something that is sought AFTER everything else has been done.
So, if you are driving a Lexus and can't make your mortgage payment, perhaps you should sell your Lexus and buy something that is cheaper that allows you to make your mortgage payment.
You do this first, before you ask taxpayers to help you pay for life.
The issue is that people think welfare is there so they can maintain a lifestyle they can't afford.

My point is I wouldn't go on vacation if Im welfare , mind you I wouldn't go on welfare either.

Now I dont know what I would do if I was a widower with young children either.

Its hard to know what the other person is about unless you walk a mile in their shoes.


But at the same time Im pragmatic and I am fortunate enough to have level headed parents and grandparents as mentors who instilled a work ethic and independence.

I look at welfare as a lack of independence which isnt a bad thing but Ive always believe that welfare is something of a last resort and to help those in need, not help those who desire a lifestyle that working people have.

My dad died when I was 11. He was a hard worker. My mom, me, and my brother received survives ss benefits. We didn't go on welfare. But me and my brother went to work as teenagers for spending money.

Thru my career, there were times when I was allotted over-time on a regular basis.
I worked yearlong stretches of 60 hour work weeks.
The money was good.
My lifestyle reflected that influx of money.
Then, the company changed its policy and hired more people and set the 42 hour work week.
I had a lot of trouble making ends meet.
Not because I was making less money but because I failed to adjust my lifestyle to reflect the changing in pay.
After I did change my lifestyle, things got easier.
I was forced to sell off the extravagance and become more frugal in my purchases.
I didn't immediately go scream for help.
Welfare was not an option because I didn't need it.
I needed to change my lifestyle and did.
Subsequently, the over-time returned.
I maintained my lower income lifestyle because the over-time was not my wages but something extra.
Something that may not be there.

If someone is ON welfare continuously, something is not right in their lifestyle. They have failed to change their lifestyle to reflect their means. They have failed to manage themselves.
That is just a cold reality.
You can have compassion for them but if they don't adjust their lifestyle to living within their means isn't that their own fault?

I can have as many children I want and welfare will pay for them.
I can have my Lexus and welfare will help pay for it.

There is a difference between getting angry when the welfare checks stop and crying because you don't know how you will survive.
The person angry will fight to keep everything their lifestyle demands but the one that is crying has no choice but to abandon their lifestyle in favor of one that allows them to survive.

That means they sell that Lexus, they stop having more children.
The evidence that this is not being done is all around us.

If all your credit cards are maxed out and creditors are hounding you for THEIR money, you NEED to change your lifestyle.
I live an $80 lifestyle on $100 income. I choose to do this and I don't have credit problems, my bills are paid and there is leftover money to put away in case of an emergency.
Too many people try to maintain a $200 lifestyle on a $100 income.
That just doesn't work and will catch up to you eventually.

If we are sharing life stories, my mom was account manager at the USPS And my dad was an electrical engineer. they also taught me a work ethic.

but the economy didnt always care what they taught me and there were times during parenthood when I needed help getting through.

I didnt change my lifestyle to anything more than I had when I wasnt struggling, or anything less, the help was TEMPORARY until resources returned to continue maintaining our life.

Then there are people that maintain disparity in favor of assistance.
They stay unemployed because they know they will get money.
They have more children because they know they will get more money.
They work the system instead of working the jobs.
To deny this is happening is delusional.

I am disabled, I can't work.
Do I want to live like this, NO.
I have to live like this.
I would love to be able to go back to work but my dr says it will kill me.
I want to live.
I am forced to be in this lifestyle.
If I try to return to the lifestyle I had when I was working a 60 hour week, I will fail.

I no longer buy a new car every few years.
I bought a used one that I continue to drive and have maintained.
Its not pretty but it runs and its paid for.

I have all the time in the world.
I have enough in savings that I could go on vacation.
I don't because I know that savings might be needed to maintain my life someday.
My health is failing.
My medical bills will be piling up soon enough.
I am planning for that eventuality.

I have one phone that was given to me.
I can't afford a service plan so I use a free app that works off my internet connection.
I can't afford satellite service.
I use my internet connection to watch tv.
I can't afford lobster and steak all the time.
I eat hamburger and chicken.

My current lifestyle allows me to have everything I need and some things I want because I have adjusted it.
I don't consider myself poor.

I think our differences are I wasn't raised with an entitled attitude. When my dad had his first heart attack we got by on beans from our garden that mom had put in the freezer and biscuits. I was a lot healthier eating that than the pudding cups and chips a lot of kids eat today off foodstamps.

Do you think I didn't struggle with the same economy? I worked overtime when it was there and put any windfall money toward debt like the mortgage. That's how I thrived.

My dad would often say,"The world doesn't owe you a living". That's what most haven't been taught these days. Instead they are taught to cry about what others aren t giving them.

See the issue is not with TEMPORARY assistance.
The issue is with ongoing assistance that is obviously fraudulent.

When I was on and off and on welfare I was trying to maintain a lifestyle that was not feasible.
I made a change to my lifestyle to prevent needing ongoing assistance.
I made drastic changes and it worked.
Nobody told me to.
I racked my brain looking for a solution and I did what made sense and it worked.

lol, are you now accusing my parents of raising me with an 'entitled' attitude. I didnt make ANY assumptions about what your struggles are or are not, thats kind of the whole crappy attitude that I am arguing AGAINST.

and crying about what others arent giving them? Would that be better or worse than crying about what others are given that you dont have?