very poetic of you
...("away" and "day")

Who says any of us are running "game" on women here? Negative talk? Don't you think you are being negative by criticizing this without even giving it a chance? Look into it. Really learn and understand what being a PUA is about. Then, if you still don't agree with it, that's your personal choice. What if, instead of calling it the pick-up arts, we referred to it as the venusian arts (translated: the art of love). You would probably have a different view of it. You're judging us based on the stereotype that the term pick-up artist is just a "player" out to sleep with as many women as possible.

I took the time to wander around a blog or two on the subject. I was not impressed. The guys sounded pretty juvenile... The point of this quote from one of them was wasted on me. It all seems so very pedantic and without any real purpose other then some self-aggrandizement that eludes me.
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The Spanish Chicks
I could have just stayed in the conversation. I could have found out more about them, and then number closed them. Honestly, I don’t think it would have been too hard of a number close. The best friends test worked with them, but I am not going to use it anymore. I don’t need it.

The Redhead
After I pulled her away, I was in. I could have just told her to come sit down with me and tell me about herself. From there, I could have gone for a kiss close.

The 3 hotties.
I used the adoption opener. I could have just followed up on that by accusing the hot girl of grabbing my ass.

We will have to see what happens next.
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Huh?

Then there was this:
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If you peruse the archives, you’ll find that I haven’t ranked women in quite some time. Ok, I whipped out the “FUPA, GUPA, and CHALUPA” definitions, but that was more for self-amusement. I mean you’ll never see me describe a girl as “HB 9.574.” On one hand, that number may give you an idea of her level of beauty. If you follow a seduction method that emphasizes assessing a woman’s value to assist in calibration or “negging,” then this number may be helpful. However, there is a cost.
___________________________________________

All I see is a guy that really likes to both, hear his own voice and read his own writing.

So.. Whitesox.

I have no real idea if this is the sort of thing you are talking about.. If it is, best of luck. Personally I think that all this will get you is a well lubricated, tired hand, an empty box of tissue and maybe a limited following of guys that don't really know any better.

One would think, that is easy enough to achieve without having to be coached and study for it.

The first guy you quoted just initiated a chat with different women, could've gone farther with them, but decided not to. What's wrong with that? He had a good time, met some new friends, but based on his own feelings he felt they weren't relationship type.

The second guy you quoted said he was no longer going to use the HB rating system. I respect him for that. When he also says "However, there is a cost" he is absolutely right. Some people will take advantage of the method and solely use it to get with women. However, the majority of men that discover PUA's use the method to find that special someone. They become more social, meet more people, and eventually do find that person. Style and Mystery are the 2 top pick-up artists in the world. Style found that someone he was looking for and left the PUA community. But if he hadn't learned it, he never would've met her.

But really, after reading what those 2 men put, how can you criticize them? What did they do wrong? If anything, they were respectful towards women like you claim men should be.

I read more then those two guys. Yes, of course my view is a bit limited as it pertains to what I can view on the internet. Lets also take into account, I've probably been in and out of more bars and social settings then you have owned pairs of socks, in my time... in fact... I'm almost certain I have socks older then you!...and I stopped going to bars in my early 30's.

However all things being equal... taking into account my 26+ years on this earth above your 18 year old existence, lets just say we are on common ground.

But.. getting back to the quotes.

...then number closed

The best friends test worked...

a kiss close...

I used the adoption opener...

The first thing that comes to mind is his apparent lack of imagination. He picks up women like I have negotiated business contracts.
I know terms like that too..

The alternative close...

The shame close...

The ego close.

All of them are calculated ways to get someone to do things they otherwise would not do. In my case, sign a business agreement and write a sizable check. They work too. Provided I am not looking down the road and could care less about repeat business. In my younger years I used them, pretty effectively. Now that I am a little more mature and own my own business. I like to be able to sleep at night, look at myself in the mirror, have trusting long term relationships in my business, so I don't use them in either business or personal life.

I respond to my clients as people and business owners with issues and needs particular to them. I do that because I really do care. Using some boiler plate scheme would not convey that care in the slightest.

The second quote indicates that there are common rating systems that enables an individual to establish their target or targets, purely based on visuals and observation from a distance. Which is pretty dehumanising.

You can paint it as respectful if that gets you through the night.
I see it differently. Not out of ignorance either, as you so gracefully implied.

There is no trickery when it comes to the pickup closes. All these "routines" and "gambits" that lead to the number close and kiss close work to demonstrate value and to express how fun of a guy you can really be, acting as a means to APPEAL to the female, not to trick/manipulate her.

That was pretty long so I'm going to reply to it in certain sections.

1) A number close just means you got the girls phone number. Really, it's not a big accomplishment because most phone numbers are flakes. You don't need to be a PUA to get a fake number. Adoption opener is just a way to initiate a conversation. Kiss close is getting a kiss. If a girl doesn't want to kiss you, she isn't going to. A kiss close isn't a way of manipulating her into it. And people find it fascinating when someone who has never met them before can tell something about them. The best friend test demonstrates this.

2) Maybe we have more in common than you think. I'm currently attempting to open my own business with a friend (not a PUA business, it's for medical billing). "I respond to my clients as people and business owners with issues and needs particular to them." Women of beauty are approached and hit on all the time. What they need is somebody fun and interesting. A lot of PUA routines are just to get your foot in the door. Once you've reached the social hook point and have been accepted into the group, then you can be yourself. Openers and routines demonsrate value to create the intial attraction. The comfort phase is when you can sit down with a woman and discuss whatever you want. At this point, you can find out she doesn't posess the qualities you're looking for, and at the very worst you've made a new friend.

3) As for the rating system, sadly, men are visual thinkers. A woman's looks are one of the first things we notice. It's amazing though that most beautiful women don't have the personality you're looking for in a partner. But looking around a room, whether you want to admit it or not, you use a woman's looks to judge what you want. If there is no physical attraction, you'll probably have little interest in meeting her. In all fairness though, PUA's have a code to follow with the rating system. No woman is ever rated below a 6..ever.

I'm not trying to call you ignorant. We are a few decades apart in age and the times we grew up in were different. I was always told be nice to women, buy her dinner, etc. But the reality is women today aren't looking for a push over. The basic theory behind it is called the Cat String Theory. If you put a string in front of a cat and pull it away, the cat will chase it. If you drop the string on the floor, the cat will get bored and walk away. Women just want a challenge. It doesn't mean a guy has to be an asshole or manipulate her. Men can be challenging in a fun, playful way.

I think it really is the generation gap here. There's different beliefs about relationships and the "rules" for dating have changed over the years.

If 22 is old...then Im ancient!!

Dang that makes me like Dirt already... How does dirt speak???

The Day Game vs. Night Game is not about games....its about what you do with your life....PUA was trying to say, "get a life!!!"
Do something to develop your personality, your interests.....do something for you....partying & drinking is not a way to improve who you are.....find & develop some interests, whatever that might be.....Reading Books, Playing an Instrument, Exercising, Playing Sports....If you do interesting things you become a more interesting person....when you feel good about who you are, the relationships will come....no need to force the issue....

Well said

Let me just say something about all this. If most of you people who keep replying to this post why is it that you are just talking amongst eachother nearly none of these reply's are directed at me. Don't worry about me sincerely I'm just sharing my pair with ya'll to someone that can actually relate to it. I'm fine I still go out and have me a good time now and then. So I'm just saying most of you looked way to far into what I was saying then regurgated something you honestly could have googled to make it sound like you have insight. Or some kind of intellect on such as human problem's. In fact if all of you were so good at solving my problem you wouldn't be on here at all and solving your own. Tellin me how to be a pick up artist, dude go write a book or something. My bad but I only heard on here one thing that made much sence. Some were cute and I appreciate it. But really if you are just gonna talk freely about these thing's do it into someone's inbox that can put it to use.
Sincerely,
Smadam

Well, for one thing, it was pretty much all directed FOR you to judge for yourself and you will benefit from reading all these posts. If you're gunna disregard all the PUA stuff go right ahead but I'm tellin ya... it can really help you build a solid life. People like yokoke will just tell you to have a solid life without giving you the steps on how to do it, and I and some of us others are describing one way to do it.
And a lot of this stuff have already been written in many, many books. Maybe you wanna check em out.

Game can be learned. For Day Game, I recommend checking out David Wygant.

Wyngant is great! Very, very knowledgeable man! If not him, then just talk with Geek for a little while. His advice is always great!

Umm no no no SDM (i don't know jack, chief actually has helped me find resources for what I'm looking for), I've just started to read some of this stuff. I have no interest in building attraction, I read the stuff that pertains to "inner game" or boosting self esteem. And I do practice that stuff, how to walk more confidently, how to talk more confidently, most important how to think in a confident way.

I dialoge with myself all the time telling myself I DESERVE things in life because I WORK hard, I'm a NICE person, if a girl doesn't dig me, well whatever she's losing her chance to converse with someone smart, funny, and who also wouldn't cheat or play head games. I don't like a lot of the PUA talk, the terms, the braggadocio but whatever to each their own.

I wouldn't "practice" by just trying to get girls to give me their numbers or give me a kiss. I'd "practice" by just trying to talk to other girls and try to be friends with them without being a syncophantic wuss.

I have a certain sense of ethics, honor, respect. I feel the world doesn't talk about these things as much as they used to. I have a mother and a sister and if I wouldn't want a guy doing a certain thing to them, I wouldn't do it to another woman.

You can learn and practice how to be socially aware without being a jerk...or so I believe.

Being able to interact comfortably, being able to take advantage but not doing so is honorable and truly NICE. A lot of nice guys are really asses who'd play girls if they knew how, they just don't get it so their nice-ness stems from lack of options.

What would a woman want? Someone who has no other options so settles for her, or someone who has choices but has chosen her because she is the one he truly has come to love.

This is just my own personal view on the whole thing. A little old time good values, with a new school twist lol.

DAAAYYYUMMM
you have learned much, geektothetenth. congrats!
it only took u a few days to read all that material i linked u to! youre gunna be a superstar, mang.

IS IT WRONG TO CHAT WITH A FEW DIFFERENT LADIES i AM INTERESTED ON LINE OR SHOULD i FOCUS ON ONE AT A TIME? i AM A ONE-LADY MAN AND i AM NOT SURE IF i AM DOING THE RIGHT THING CHATTING WITH DIFFERENT LADIES AND DO NOT WANT TO HURT ANYONE DANIEL

Umm besides some witty and sarcastic comment I was going to make about capslock, I'd say yes you should talk to several people at a time. I'm guessing the ladies do the same I am not so conceited to think that the women I talk to with 20 people in their friends list are not talking to other men. You don't know if you're gonna click till it happens so why limit yourself, it's not like you're dating multiple women and keeping it a secret from them, it's just talking.