Regardless of what census is taken....there is an entire set of people living here (under the radar), coyotes smuggling people, sex traffickers, etc....that have never been caught! Again...any census is useless because of these factors. No one really knows if illegal immigrantion has risen or declined. No way to know

thats true, there is no way to know the numbers of any data taken from polls and surveys

pretty much , MOST DATA

but those charged with these calculations and statistics,

are generally reliable for tracking TRENDS, since their numbers will be consistent enough for a rise and/or fall to still reflect a rise and/or fall

EyeAmYourHost39,

We Have to look at both sides of this issue. the things im hearing here with my good people of M2 is some breaks it down by pointing out how Trump gathering his data on whose eligible to be an illegal. I'm also hearing from the feedback it may be conducted by the U.S. Census Bureau. To answer that question I would have to agree with both sides. I mean where he gets his numbers? & It is about numbers too, we can't dispute that. Everything that goes on in politics has to do with mass numbers, we just don't know how they tally it up.

the illegals could care less about our so called " anonymous poll".. they HIDE when that takes place....KNOWN FACT. They do not want to show up ANYWHERE on the radar

So you are saying that on poll counting day, they all come out and willingly tell the government that they are here illegally.. then go back to hiding.

is that what you are saying

Wtf? Who asked that? Odd that you blame Trump when he just got into office. If it was Trump, the claim would be ILLEGAL immigrantion is on the rise, not decline.

I said it was inaccurate both ways. There is no way to calculate ILLEGALS. Legal immigrants maybe but we are talking illegals

From the Government Accounting Office...( they pay the bill, so they would know) and Btw.. is cost 3.1 Billion dollars to keep these illegal criminals locked up.
---- ---- ---- ----
As of 2010, the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency (ICE) under its "Secure Communities" project has identified 240,000 illegal immigrants convicted of crimes, according to Department of Homeland Security figures. Of those, about 30,000 have been deported, including 8,600 convicted of what the agency calls "the most egregious offenses.
---- ----- ---- -----
As for the argument of " well, some may have been minor crimes".. you know what.. if they were not here, that " minor" crime would never have taken place.. would it

Ms YellowRose10,

it wasn't about a question it was mentioned in this topic. If you caught my earlier topics on Trump you would of read I already accepted him in office but that don't stop my personal feelings for him. Listen I respect you , you probably a wife, a mother, but you seem to be open to Trump, I mean he has no regards for women of all colors, the handicapped community, American as well as Middle Eastern Muslims, Hell, god knows only who else. People realize this some of you supporting a guy who really don't give a wicky wear about us. Bottom-line, I'm in my head & heart think he a piece of dung. I'm a man of color, I again love everyone but when it comes to him, I'm still a black man in America. yes I am German but in this country all they see is my skin. I'm always support my people & sweat & bleed with them. Not pretend this country is made for all men....

Ok....no I am not a wife (wouldn't be here if I was) and not a Trump supporter. I don't like any politician. Assumptions aren't good. I have read this topic and it went from the wall to deter illegals to why not Canada, not this issue in Europe to all of a sudden, specific (legal) groups are going to be forbidden to enter. Then the nonsense about documenting how many illegals (rise or decline). I live in a border state and I know many in border towns that think it is needed.

I didn't say a thing about who accepted he is in office or how they feel personally. I read that Trump was a source of this census and I said if he was, it would say an incline of illegals, not decline but you jumped to Trump who just got in office.

I am a white woman. What's your point?

if you have a broken arm would you put a cast on your leg

if your washing machine quit working would you take your dryer to the shop

if your hair need fixed would you go to the dentist

i doubt you would use any of those absurd ideas

so if most of the illegal entry into a country has been verified at a
specific area why build a wall else where

kinda like the guy that lost his wallet when asked where he lost he says
oh down that way about 100 feet i think - the other person asks why are
you looking here - and he answers the light is better

looking in the wrong spot because light is better is like building a wall where no one is entering

we will see what 'building a wall' actually accomplishes

or maybe not since there is no real way to count the illegals

but you can count those caught and if that number drops with more
border agents and tougher enforcement then the wall will be deemed a success

oh, you mean like the decrease thats already been happening with the CURRENT Measures over the last decade?

i just made a prediction

but even if the rate is down it is still way to high there are illegal drugs coming in across the boarder on backs of people and the money from those drugs leads to violence on both sides of the border
mexico should want to be stopping those crossings as well but hey
maybe their president is making to much money off of those drugs and
kids and women being sold into slavery once they get across the border

I dont think I can control who comes into your home if I am busy taking care of who comes into my own

pretty sure MEXICO has their hands full protecting their own home


but, who knows,, maybe a wall will change everything,,,,

well the wall works both ways it can stop illegal stuff going north
and illegal stuff going south and oney from drug sale and guns bought
north of border with drug money also can be made harder to get back
south across the boarder

thus lowering the murder rate and criminals access to guns should make
everyone happy that is not making illegal money from it

so how has the murder rates increased during the same time illegal immigration has decreased?

seems like it may be a more complex issue,,,,

Why not just annex everything North of Panama? Remove all borders and open the entire land mass to everyone? For that matter, why stop at Panama? One nation from the North Pole to the tip of Chile.

The United States already believes everyone should be free. Already thinks that other countries are self-destructive and oppressive to their people.

Just think about how much wealth is to be had. Jobs, there will be so many jobs to build infrastructure and mega-projects that everyone would get a piece of the pie.

Imagine huge transportation corridors, universities and communication networks. Great seaports and spaceports could be built. Whole new mega-cities would rise up.

One language, one currency, one religion and one culture. Why build a wall at all? Why even have locks on your doors?

Countries, nations and cultures have borders because it is a known fact that humans don't play well together. There are borders established because we need a defining line to keep our ideals separate. It keeps our world orderly.

What if the American Indians had constructed and fortified a wall centuries ago? Look what happened to their land, their heritage and their traditions. Will the Southern Americans set the US citizens to 'reservations' in our future?

Borders need to be defended to isolate the values of the citizens of that nation against threats from other nations. It is not limited to armed aggression. Threats to a nation can be as subtle as an idea or a tradition. Other nations around the world meet border issues with deadly force.
The USA meets border issues with "Aw gee fellows, you can't be in our country unless you ask us for permission, here, we will send you back home, okay? Please don't do it again."
Then we have a problem with putting up a wall to keep them out. "Well, we can't just shoot them, can we?" Other countries do...

I say Build A Wall. But build a wall that is so massive and complete that it becomes a mega-project that puts our citizens to work for decades.

United States National Border Security Project

A 150-250 year federally subsidized concentrated mega-project to secure the continental United States land borders.

1. Erect a ten meter chain-link fence with privacy slats and razor wire along the actual land border of the nation at the Mexican and Canadian borders. (Including Alaska land borders)
2. Establish and define a 500 meter inner perimeter "Empty Zone" along the border fence.
- Erect antipersonnel stations at 500 meter intervals
- Install seismic sensors with an over-lapping range and high sensitivity
- Post signs warning that lethal suppression will be used
- Rotate defense personnel by position, shift and duration to alleviate complacency.
3. At the inner edge of the inner perimeter, dig a 150 meter deep construction footing 1 KM wide and the length of the border.
4. Sink steel rods into the base of the footing an additional 30 meters.
5. Pour a concrete base inside the footer to establish the base of the containment wall.
6. Erect a concrete subterranean wall in 150 meter sections secured laterally with steel rods extending 30 meters at various angles towards the perimeter fence.
7. Construct utility corridors along the inner edge of the foundation wall.
8. Construct high speed electric or mag-lev transportation corridors at the base of the footer.
9. Construct waste transportation facilities to move generated waste to recycling terminals for transport to the National Recycling Center.
10. Construct warehousing units in the remaining area within the footer that can be divided into maintenance shops, storage units or open for future use.

The Border Wall

The Border Wall will not be a wall as much as it will be a series of large buildings and constructs that will act as a wall.

1. Buildings will be erected along the extent of the footer no less than 250 meters in height and a full 1 KM in width.
2. Access openings with gates and security measures will be built into the construct at key places along the border.
3. The border perimeter side of the buildings will be reinforced and of sufficient thickness to avert breaching.
4. The border perimeter side of each building's roof will be manned and protected by manual and automatic defensive weapons.
5. A network of night vision sensors, movement sensors and high intensity spot and flood lights will be placed to saturate the entire "Empty Zone" of the perimeter.

The Border Facility

1. The entire operation is headed by the Dept. of Homeland Security.
2. Funding will be from National, State and Local allotments. Facilities and spaces can be rented out to entities for commercial endeavors.
3. Isolated sections of the facilities can be constructed as prison facilities and will be partially funded by the Nation, State and Local prison funds.
4. Warehousing and Product Distribution facilities can be commercially leased and contribute to the project's funding.
5. There will be a strip of solar panels, a strip of green houses and community gardens extending the entire perimeter of the facility's roof.

Example of Possible Facility Entities

1. INS and Home Land Security Offices including Immigration processing, education and temporary housing units.
2. National and State Prison Facilities including trade development and education facilities, confinement, work centers and paroling offices.
3. Commercial Manufacturing and Warehousing Facilities.
4. Research Laboratories and Testing Facilities.
5. Universities and Trade Schools.
6. Electronic Data Back-up Storage Facilities
7. Consumer-Based Small Business Facilities.
8. Business Offices
9. Medical Facilities
10. Police and Military Training Facilities

Initial and Sustained Impact

Initially there will be a need for workers to erect the fence and "Empty Perimeter" areas. Generating jobs in all facets of construction and management. There will be Public Domain issues with local residents that will need to be worked out requiring dedication of the Dept. of Justice. A large expenditure of initial funding will be needed to secure the land and obtain the various permits. State and Local laws may need to be amended, rescinded or created. The temporary policing force will need manned and managed. Support for the equipment and personnel will generate new businesses and establish communities with housing, restaurants, hospitals and various community entities.

The next phase of the project will be the creation of the 'Footer' and establishment of the subterranean components of the Wall Facility. There will be a need for lots of earth-moving equipment, concrete and utility conduits. Not only will the construction crews and its management be employed for decades, all the related requirements will need workers as well. The support communities that were created during the initial phase will grow accordingly. There will be research and modifications in techniques as our technology advances. The support facilities built into the 'Footer' will be used as sections are completed. The depth and width of the 'Footer' will reveal and prevent tunneling efforts. The shear number of people all focused on the border will eliminate and prevent coyote operations. The Wall Facility will be effective at this point.

The Wall Phase will be the most intense part of the project. Not only will it require manufacturing and construction jobs there will be a need to modify techniques and materials as the project progresses. There will be a need to create an effective barrier on the Border-Side and aesthetic effective community conducive facility on the Nation-Side. There will be research and development of new technology, changes in methods and changes in social patterns. I imagine a great Border Highway leading to even more communities.

All during these construction phases everyday people and their families will be employed and sustained all across the nation. The effect will trickle down to each and every member of our nation. Our people will unite under a common goal. We will learn from our set-backs and our successes will inspire national pride. By the time we complete the construction phases our nation will be ready to fully implement the facility's potential. Job functions will change, education and training will generate a new national trade. As the construction elements begin to fade, new construction mega-projects will be initiated.

LOL

yes, but there is the money, that many didnt want to spend on making sure more Americans have healthcare,,,,,,,wages and materials arent free


this wall business really, reminds me of the gun debate, people playing like there are only two options,,,

with guns, its as if you either have to support anyone/everyone having a gun, or you are accused of wanting everyones guns taken away

same with the wall, if you dont support building a wall, you seem to be guilty of not wanting to have secure borders,,,



life is about compromise, I dont want to live in the extremes of either side

dude.....the america indians are following the guide of morther nature......so that's why they can did so centries before......but wildness..it is because the rule of family.....but what dose the great immigrators belive and their faith? so that's another circle with 9.....yea....the ninth circle.......because by the details of humanoid history....it never stoping by every 100 years about.....it is about the physical of human both what happen where they were living.....like a wheel of flame.....it brings the holps both dooms......you should go asking the bishop about this.....to me.....i'm just another man whom lost for a long time........