This is NOT me moaning and whinging, I'm just curious, and hoping to make some of you think about this a bit more.

I'm wondering why men can't seem to come up with an interesting opening in a PM?
It's not different from doing this in real life, as a matter of fact, it's a helluva lot easier!:
- you don't have to look her in the eyes
- if you get rejected, it's not face to face, so much easier to shrug it off
- You can think about it for hours, days
- Your mates aren't watching you fumble
- her friends aren't watching you fumble
- no one is watching you fumble
- you can think about your reply to her for hours, much easier

So what is the problem?
Why do 99,99999% of you come with: "Hi my name is XXXX. I like your profile, I hope to read from you."

WOWZA, now my interest is piqued. NOT!
Why not:
- simply sign off with your first name?
- tell me what you found so interesting about my profile / me?
- tell me something interesting or witty

When not getting any replies, instead of whinging, why don't you men:
- read online, books, workshops on how to approach the matter? Don't you care about becoming more successful?
- Have you ever even thought about these options?
- Do yo rather just get discouraged and disappointed than investing a bit of time in research on how to brush up on your technique?

Just curious why this seems to be so difficult for many/most of you?
It's really peculiar, cos I think most ppl that work marketing are men, yet you cannot for the love of god flog yourself?

Probably for the same reasons women are reluctant to initiate a meeting here or in person lack of social skills and emotional maturity..

i hope its not that rude to not reply when i get these kind of approaches in pm. i just think it would be a waste of time

That's true bro but not all women are visuals or do the like what they see.
It could leave a shocking experience that could scar them.

Another approach could be a more suitable to get a more positive reaction.

Be careful it might get bitten off. You don't want that

Sometimes, we fellas have trouble communicating
with the fairer sex, verbally.
We're more visual.


"Hello. What's your sign"?

I like the technique of approaching them when they're back is towards me...
.. last chance of them running away right away..lol

^^^^ Ahhhh, now I see what I was doing wrong. I wasn't wearing the cool socks when I "introduced" myself

Less..wink

I usually pick up on something on her profile or something we might have in common,
But i realised it's pretty pointless trying to instigate a conversation really as most women won't be interested unless you look like a hollywood heart throb.

CRYSTAL: IN THE LAST FIFTY YEARS OR SO THERE HAS NOT BEEN THE MODEL ROLES TO

TEACH BOYS HOW TO BE A MAN...GROWING UP BEING RAISED BY SINGLE PARENTS OR PARENT

WHO CHOOSES A SAME SEX MATE....THEN THE LACK OF KNOWLEDGE ABOUT THE DIFFERENCES

IN EMOTIONAL PROCESSES GOING ON IN A WOMAN AND A MAN.....WE NEED TO UNDERSTAND

THAT WE ARE NOT THE SAME, WE DO NOT TAKE INFO THE SAME THEN WE DO NOT PROCESS IT

THE SAME.....WE DO DO NOT HAVE THE SAME NEEDS EMOTIONALLY, AND SEXUALLY.....AT

ONE TIME I BELIEVED THE GUYS WHERE THE ONES WHO NEEDED TO GET THERE ACT

TOGETHER. THEN I SOON LEARNED THAT THE GALS NEED TO ALSO LEARN MORE ABOUT HOW

MEN THINK AND PROCESS INFO EMOTIONALLY.... AS LONG AS HOLD ONTO THE BELIEF WE

ALREADY KNOW ENOUGH ABOUT ABOUT THE OPPOSITE SEX AND OUR SELVES WE WILL END UP

WITH MUCH LESS THAN WHAT IS TRULY POSSIBLE...

I hope this doesn't disappoint you anymore. My experience with this matter is that all of the thousands of out of the blues I receive are dead ends/scams. Just to satisfy my curiosity I responded to so many. One has his own signature like a finger print. One liner goes like this - (will like to know you better) don't waste your time on that one hill just leave you standing if you ask him to many questions. If they look hot there probably not.


I might of exaggerated a little but it's true. Trust

i hope its not that rude to not reply when i get these kind of approaches in pm. i just think it would be a waste of time
Who told you that!
So far It's still a pretty free country.

There's just so much to that question.
I mean:
- it could be argued if someone's not getting interesting opening lines from men in PM then maybe that means something about them, and they aren't attractive to interesting men.

- It could be argued that someone needs something interesting to work with in order to have it reciprocated.

Why do people that don't have anything interesting in their profile expect someone to know how to approach them in an interesting way?
What do you read in profiles more often: "I like to laugh, I can stay in or go out, my kids are my world, I like hanging out with friends and family, I'm a good person, I'm working on losing weight, I want a guy that does this, that, and the other, NO PLAYERS! Not looking for sex!"

Or, "I've just accidentally killed some drug dealers and I'm hiding out in a van down by the river. Cops are looking for a single woman and have closed the roads. I need to hang out at Applebee's for a while and not be alone arousing suspicion. Anyone want to go to dinner with me this weekend while I case the roadblocks and make a run for the border? Please let me know how you'd hide from the cops. I'm new to this. No I won't get in the trunk. I'm not falling for that again."

Which do you think is actually more "interesting" and would garner an "interesting" response?

- How long have these women and men been using online dating?
It could be argued that all of these guys have been online for weeks, months, years, and have tried the "interesting" route, and it simply didn't work. People are pragmatic by nature. If something isn't supported, people generally stop doing it.
If "thinking about a response for hours" garners no response, or unsuccessful responses, and simply sending "hi" gets no or unsuccessful responses...what's the incentive to send anything interesting?

It could be argued that the women have been here for a very long time. For every "interesting" response they've received the standard shotgun approach from guys that are emailing 200 women at a time hoping that 1 woman takes the bait and actually responds.
People tend to focus on the bad and annoying more than the "nice approach, but meh, not attracted."
100 men may have approached them in an interesting way, but 1000 didn't, so the 100 were lost in the count.

- It could be argued that with experience you realize 90% of profiles are biased BS. Someone puts they love sailing on their profile? Approach with something interesting about sailing...come to figure out they went sailing once when they were 9. And they didn't really like sailing, they liked that they spent time with their dad on a boat, and they filled out their profile while thinking about him.
So talking about something "interesting" based on what is on their profile turns out to be relatively pointless. If you'd have talked about missing your dad? Gold. Talk about sailing because they said they loved sailing? Meh. Kinda boring conversation.

- It could be argued that with the amount of "ghosting" and simple "no reply" along with the fact that for the most part women expect to be approached first (not to mention so many profiles on dating sites are scammers, or haven't been signed into for so long) it would be in a guys best interest to figure out if 1. the woman is real or if she's going to send a copy/paste response of "me love you, gimme money for my sick nigerian uncle and we get marry!" or 2.she even signs onto the site anymore.

- It could be argued with what's in the OP:

What do people do in real life when they're being polite?
They come up and say "hello." Or "hello, my name is xxxx."
They may be "afraid" of the "interesting" approach thinking it's going to be seen as a line, or hiding ulterior motives, so it's best to just start a conversation simply....like they would "doing this in real life."

IOW the question itself has so many innate biases it makes it relatively worthless to ask.


Online interaction doesn't offer the immediate feedback and information that direct face to face interaction offers.


It doesn't offer anything relevant.


Your (general your not a specific your) profile isn't interesting.
Profiles aren't interesting.
You have a picture. That engenders an emotional/hormonal response.
There's information in your profile that either kills that initial response, or doesn't.
If it doesn't go away, we don't want to date your profile.
We want to go out and date and talk and laugh and hold hands and touch and kiss and bond and keep feeling great and move forward.
You are not a special snowflake, you happened to engender an immediate hormonal response we are responding to.

Your profile is not Shakespeare and Beethoven and Degas rolled into one and should therefore be celebrated and worshiped.
There is absolutely nothing in any profile that can't be found in someone elses to some degree.
What any man responds to in your profile is a short term emotional kick that goes away if it isn't validated by reciprocating attention.

Anyone over the age of 12 pretty much knows if you come up to a woman and say "I just think you're pretty, I want to hang out with you!" there's a serious chance you'll get an earful of "It's about what's inside! Get to know me! Waaaah! Shallow! Unclean! Where are the good men at?! Where are the real men!" or simply a "no thanks, I'm looking for something more serious and deep."


Why not show your panty collection.
Why not fill your profile out with a questionnaire or form detailing how you want a guy to approach you with a guarantee they'll get a response if instructions are followed.
Why not only speak to people that you yourself approach, and if you get a first email from someone then go to their profile, figure out if you would have approached them first, and if you would approach them first treat your response accordingly, as though you are first approaching him.


Because they don't want to do something else.
They want to whinge...so they whinge.
Might as well ask "why whinge about Hillary...just vote for someone else instead..."
Whinging is cathartic to some people.


Probably, at some point.
I don't think there's any proof that people do nothing but whinge without doing something else as well.
Sure, you get the forum thread of the whinge, but for all anyone knows they signed off and went to the book store, or started googling things.
Or maybe they did nothing but whine for a month, day after day of constant new whining posts, and then after the month they started trying something else.
Who knows.

At best all you get is the same whinge from different people, over the course of a time, and you start seeing the whine as the same and therefore the people the same.


There's no proof that any other technique is more successful.
All that is ever proven is one approach, towards one particular woman, may not have been successful.
But there's no real feedback, nothing that can truly be trusted.
No response, "Oh, I'm already seeing someone," everything seems fine then stops.

There is no formula of "if you just do this, then that is guaranteed to happen, and it will lead to the perfect relationship."
Without any guarantees, without any relevant feedback of consistency, it's easy to get discouraged and disappointed.
I mean what if baseball was just people swinging a bat, throwing a ball, and standing at a base, each in a separate dark room, and some unknown announcer said what happened at random times.
Would you watch that on t.v.? No feedback, no rules, nothing consistent.


Unless you can guarantee responses for people that try your approach it's not a matter of "difficulty" so much as a lack of incentive to really try that hard. Where exactly to put in the effort, and to what.


Marketing works after stalking a certain demographic.
Do you want to start participating in focus groups, have guys start following you around analyzing your every move, put cookies on your computer, allow Facebook to mine through your email to learn your peer behavior?
That's what marketers do.

If that's what you want, then please feel free to find a guy that wants to date you, give him your address, where you work, your credit card number, your phone number, access to your credit history, everything and anything you can about you, then say "don't talk to me, just go get all the information you can as unobtrusively yet invasively as possible, then come back in 1-4 weeks and pitch me an idea of why I should date you."

That's what you're asking for if you're asking for the "marketing" approach.


Other than that, women should realize, the higher quality guy you want, you have to "flog" yourself just as much as you want a guy to.

Yeah, I know. Thing is, when something doesn't work, I'd say you'd have a natural inclination to learn how you can make it work.
I just don't get why men don't seem to have that. And I'm sure not all women do either, but I do know there's still more women out there who do seek help, information etc than there are men doing the same thing.

And sure the role model missing could be part of it, but how many women have had good feminine role models these days? Mostly none. Many have been raised by more masculine-energy women who wanted or needed to make a career and therefor had to tap into their masculine energy part simply to make it in 'it's a man's world'.
Apart from that, society is patriarchal (masculine), so hardly anyone even remembers what healthy feminine is all about.
Yet, many women do make an effort to work on themselves and/or to learn and find out about this dating stuff.
Why don't men?

Same with there being more women than men who really recover after breakup, getting over it all, and ready for a new relationship without being bitter and/or holding on to the past.

Would it affect men more to not have a decent role model than it does women to not have one, or would women simply be more resilient? Self-sufficient? More resources one way or another to bounce back and grow?

Thanks, but there's really nothing to disappoint, I wasn't asking for me personally, I am just having an interest as to what's behind this 'phenomenon'.

CRYSTAL:

ONE TRAIT THAT WE WERE BORN WITH THAT CAUSES A LOT OF TROUBLE THAT WAS TO INSURE

SURVIVAL SPECIE WAS TO LEARN ABOUT WHATS GOING ON IN OUR

WORLD.FAST.......
FROM THE TIME WE ARE BORN AS WE LEARN OUR BRAINS DECIDE THAT ''NOW I KNOW THE

ANSWER'' AS WE GET OLDER LIKE INTO ADULTHOOD UPDATED INFO COMES ALONE AND WE SAY

TO OURSELVES ''I ALREADY KNOW THE ANSWER'' BECAUSE THE OLD ANSWER WAS REINFORCED

MANY TIMES....ADULTS FEAR CHANGE BECAUSE THEY KNOW WHAT WILL HAPPEN IF THEY KEEP

THERE BELIEFS THE SAME.....ITS THE UNKNOWN THEY FEAR.....I SEE IT EVERY DAY FROM

ALMOST EVERYONE I TALK TO.....THATS WHY MEN ARE SO ''BULL HEADED''...

There is a really simple answer for this. It doesn't matter. It's that simple. 98% of messages men send out to women go unanswered. I have seen very well crafted messages from men to women go unanswered. The way a lot of men are looking at it, if you can't answer a simple message, he isn't going to waste his time writing you a complex message.

Out here in the real world, A man walks up to a woman and tries to start a conversation with her. She is either interested, or she isn't. But a lot of men stand a better chance of getting a conversation started face to face than they do on the internet. The reason for it, At least most times, A lot of women on the internet make things harder than they have to be.

A lot of men on the internet feel like they have to jump through hoops just to get some stranger to talk to him. A lot of men have grown tired of it. I had this guy tell me the other day on another dating forum that between the women on the internet and the women he meets out in public, well, simply put, there are too many women that are dateable that don't require him to jump through hoops.

The more I hang around these forums, the more I realize that women in general, are hurting themselves. They are their own worst enemy. They are chasing guys away and don't know it. For a lot of them their nit-pickiness over all sorts of things. Especially in the online dating world, over messages not being a certain way, or not written a certain way, If you are like this, you are causing your own downfall.

If this hurts any one's feelings, I apologize. It's not meant to do that. I've been doing the online thing for 10 years. I've seen a lot. And the volunteering I do on another site, I get to hear all kinds of stuff. I'll say this in closing. In the past 30 or more years a lot of American women, (and women in general) have changed so much that it has been driving American men to women in other countries and to different races. And the biggest complaint I hear, being nitpicky and just all around pickiness.

Honestly......I blame social media for this. Back when you had to actually approach a girl, you had to either know what you wanted to say or you simply just winged it and went for it. Online flirting or contacting is lazy and men can actually sit on the couch and send several "Hi. How are you? You are cute. Wanna chat?" messages. Guys get one hit and then it's like "score"!

Thanks for your reply. Maybe you got a point, not sure. I'm not American, so I cannot say anything about that bit.

But do want to say: A good opening message/line doesn't have to be complex at all.
The first stuff I sent out to men didn't get me much result either. Was along the same boring, uninspired lines as what women on here get.
Then I started experimented and that way found myself a message that had 90% response rate.
There really is nothing 'complex' about it. Complex could repel even. No one needs complex in a first message.
It's just taking the time to come up with something good. And the willingness to invest a bit of time in finding a date and alleged partner.

Could be a good point ..