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| Topic: Is Abortion Right In This Instance? | |
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Several double standards exist in this thread...
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Several double standards exist in this thread... |
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Edited by
Pansytilly
on
Sun 05/10/15 09:22 AM
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Several double standards exist in this thread... Well....im not sure about the going with the flow vs too religious you just mentioned....but for most part i was wondering about the question i asked earlier... We usually focus on what the mother would do to the unborn fetus and put so much pressure and conflicting views on their heads...and yet, being pregnant was not a choice of their own...they were a victim of rape, and many continue to be a victim because of the pregnancy resulting from rape... Some may not be even able to have any semblance of a normal life anymore because of the event and because they have a child from this circumstance... What about the perpetrator? How will they be held accountable for what they did to the girl they raped, her future and for the offspring?...aren't these issues just as important as well, if not moreso? Your question was that these women may be psychologically unsound, short and long term, which may or may not justify abortion. What about the men who fathered these children? Should they not be pressured and adjusted by society as to the implications of fathering a child with their state of minds, as well? |
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A very legitimate topic and a serious, life altering, decision to be worked through by the unfortunate people involved.
Some very well thought out answers listed here by writers, with probable limited knowledge, who were a million miles from where these dispicable acts were committed. Then there is the lunatic fringe, the contributers that believe in sky Gods, the worshipers and followers of words, written down by a bunch of Bronze-Age cave men that didn't know what happened to the Sun when it went over the horizen at twilight. I try to imagine what level of erudition might be revealed in a discussion devoid of religious claptrap. What urgent progress mankind might make if allowed to think free...unfetted; I cannot. But then, the atrocities that happened here, were in part, committed by just another branch of God fearing crackpots. |
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The one thing that I can't press on enough is that these babies don't deserve to die. It's not fair that they should be denied a life. I know it's hard on these young mom's that had to go through this. They will need lots of councilling and support but killing there babies that is no answer. If they did do that, to Me they would be no better that those terrorists. Those terrorists don't care about life that is why they can take it so easily, a child's life is a special thing it's new and untainted by whatever happened to bring that life about, tthat life is innocent and to kill it would be truly a terrible act just like what those terrorists are doing.
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The one thing that I can't press on enough is that these babies don't deserve to die. It's not fair that they should be denied a life. I know it's hard on these young mom's that had to go through this. They will need lots of councilling and support but killing there babies that is no answer. If they did do that, to Me they would be no better that those terrorists. Those terrorists don't care about life that is why they can take it so easily, a child's life is a special thing it's new and untainted by whatever happened to bring that life about, tthat life is innocent and to kill it would be truly a terrible act just like what those terrorists are doing. Yes, that is true. I agree with your point....this is a case where there should be no issue of having to choose between the quality of life of the mother vs the very life itself of the child. |
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The one thing that I can't press on enough is that these babies don't deserve to die. It's not fair that they should be denied a life. I know it's hard on these young mom's that had to go through this. They will need lots of councilling and support but killing there babies that is no answer. If they did do that, to Me they would be no better that those terrorists. Those terrorists don't care about life that is why they can take it so easily, a child's life is a special thing it's new and untainted by whatever happened to bring that life about, tthat life is innocent and to kill it would be truly a terrible act just like what those terrorists are doing. Yes, that is true. I agree with your point....this is a case where there should be no issue of having to choose between the quality of life of the mother vs the very life itself of the child. 
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Aww...you're just saying that coz you're my friend...
  
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Aww...you're just saying that coz you're my friend...
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uche9aa stated >>> Good observation!! I was wondering whether its only me that saw it. Some people obviously have two tongues here. There was even a point i had to ask somebody to be precise where he/she stands. People should be bold enough to stand for what they believe, not flowing with the water down town for fear of being lebelled "too religious"
Your attempt at painting Nigeria as a 'ROSY-Rainbow Bright' place was debunked; sorry but that's the facts and as disheartening as all this is and has been for the female species {especially in this region of the world} your hammering away about the 'ABORTION' issue is just the tip of the iceberg that those females face DAILY! Asked and answered; but you don't like the answer - that's not my problem! 
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A very legitimate topic and a serious, life altering, decision to be worked through by the unfortunate people involved. Some very well thought out answers listed here by writers, with probable limited knowledge, who were a million miles from where these dispicable acts were committed. Then there is the lunatic fringe, the contributers that believe in sky Gods, the worshipers and followers of words, written down by a bunch of Bronze-Age cave men that didn't know what happened to the Sun when it went over the horizen at twilight. I try to imagine what level of erudition might be revealed in a discussion devoid of religious claptrap. What urgent progress mankind might make if allowed to think free...unfetted; I cannot. But then, the atrocities that happened here, were in part, committed by just another branch of God fearing crackpots. mankind is never left to think 'free', whatever we experience, are born into, observe,, impacts us and impresses upon us as well as our choices and beleifs religion is no different than formal education, or media exposure, or travel,,,its another influence in life that expands the choices we can make for ourselves |
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The one thing that I can't press on enough is that these babies don't deserve to die. It's not fair that they should be denied a life. I know it's hard on these young mom's that had to go through this. They will need lots of councilling and support but killing there babies that is no answer. If they did do that, to Me they would be no better that those terrorists. Those terrorists don't care about life that is why they can take it so easily, a child's life is a special thing it's new and untainted by whatever happened to bring that life about, tthat life is innocent and to kill it would be truly a terrible act just like what those terrorists are doing. |
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Edited by
Sirwin
on
Sun 05/10/15 08:58 PM
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A very legitimate topic and a serious, life altering, decision to be worked through by the unfortunate people involved. Some very well thought out answers listed here by writers, with probable limited knowledge, who were a million miles from where these dispicable acts were committed. Then there is the lunatic fringe, the contributers that believe in sky Gods, the worshipers and followers of words, written down by a bunch of Bronze-Age cave men that didn't know what happened to the Sun when it went over the horizen at twilight. I try to imagine what level of erudition might be revealed in a discussion devoid of religious claptrap. What urgent progress mankind might make if allowed to think free...unfetted; I cannot. But then, the atrocities that happened here, were in part, committed by just another branch of God fearing crackpots. mankind is never left to think 'free', whatever we experience, are born into, observe,, impacts us and impresses upon us as well as our choices and beleifs religion is no different than formal education, or media exposure, or travel,,,its another influence in life that expands the choices we can make for ourselves Can I assume that you do not believe in Zeus, the God of Greek mythology? Dare I be so bold as to ask if you think that Dionysus was birthed from Zeus' leg? If not..why not? People at one time would have thought to take your very life if you had ventured to inform them that you doubted such 'truths'. Ask yourself what happened to change these societies, allowing such ridiculous stories to be relegated to the ash-can of history; then imagine, if you dare, how long it will be before the current, badly needed, change will be completed. |
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2old2 stated >>>
Please,for the records, Nigeria where that rape/abduction and stealing of those 214 girls happened does NOT believe that raping virgins cure any illness talkless aids. Nigerian are far educated beyond what you think. Female mutilation had since been outlawed too. It was the Boko Haram terrorist group that carried out that crime.
This certainly has been an interesting read {from beginning to this fragmented point right here}; odd how the 'MEN' seem to keep pushing the religious POV as if that justified the ends and reasoning for what brought this all to pass! 
Where's PanamaJoe when you need him 
Might I remind some of those {least you've forgotten} that many of these female gendered humans were but little girls when they were captured/kidnapped/stolen from their momma's and who knows when the actual dirty raping began; this is the area where the 'MEN FOLK' are raised to think that raping a virgin will cure all of their STD's so it's not that uncommon regardless of the faith based religion that you hang the male gender for the heinous deed! These regions also practice that horrid female mutilation of gentile circumcision and do it on the very - very young; {look it up - there are ghastly pictorial images that I'll not be posting here}...so what's my point? It just strikes me as ODD and almost insulting that the males species does this to the female species and then when it's her body and her decision as to what to do about the embryo growing in that too little body of that 9/10/11 year old female; those very male gendered men think they have a 'SAY IN WHAT SHE SHOULD OR SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED TO DO'! Now before you go postal about what I typed; did any of you good men partake in any of that horrid event - NOOOO, then I wasn't speaking to you... But if you are going to condemn those little girls that have now suffered many years of brutality at the hands of those cruel sub-humans and bring religion into this discussion then I'm just SMH and befuddled that you assume you have a 'VOTE'!!! God didn't have anything to do with those EVIL DOERS - and if nothing else proves that SATAN walks this earth among us then humans that torture little girls/children and animals are doing SATAN'S work and some really excel at it and it's got nothing to do with GOD'S WORK! Nothing - Nothing at all. And please be pricise; Do you support aborting the pregancy they are carrying or should the pregnancy stay or are you undecided? UGH...IF ONLY; If only you'd understand the method and reasons why the mindset behind those evil/horrid men {the ilk of Boko Haram} do what they do with their own governments 'SILENT CONSENT' and they've been able to get away with it for generations >>> http://img.static.reliefweb.int/sites/reliefweb.int/files/resources-pdf-previews/203031-FGMC_NGA_Profile.png You speak of Nigeria as those it's suddenly became a 'Golden Spear of Human Rights' and the documentation and information still being gathered by UNICEF and foreign health aid providers still trying to STOP this heinous barbaric practice goes on! Age at Circumcision: % 0 -12 Months 85% 1-4 yrs 4.1% 5-6 yrs 1.8% 7-8 yrs 2.0% 9-10 yrs 0.5% 11-12 yrs 0.9% 13+ 3.9% Donât know/missing 1.8% Person who performed the circumcision Traditional circumcisers 60.6 Traditional birth attendant 10.0 Other traditional methods 1.0 Doctors 2.0 Nurse/midwife 24.3 Other health professionals 0.4 Missing/don\t know 1.8 Source: Nigeria Demographic and Health Survey: 2003 ******************************************** Limitation and Challenges Attitudes, traditions, customs and beliefs need to change Government need to show more commitment to ending FGM. Laws prohibiting FGM is difficult to be enforced There is little support for those fighting FGM Children and adolescents needs to be informed and enabled to reject FGM Medical services have to be able to respond to the consequences of female genital mutilation, and the education system should be able to contribute to preventing it There is the need to promote the role of men as partners against the practice There is a need for the establishment of a database to promote understanding of the prevalence and nature of FGM. How to Eliminate FGM • Call for legislative provisions and stern measures to prohibit the practice • Development of alternative sources of income for circumcisers • Strong advocacy campaigns against the practice nationwide by working with the media on information, education and communication campaigns that have an impact on the public’s understanding of, and societal attitudes to FGM http://www.unicef.org/nigeria/FGM_.pdf OH, indeed it was stated by Nigeria that this 'should be abolished' and yet it's rarely ever enforced - ever prosecuted - ever anyone sentenced for mutilating those innocent young babies - young women! So the best way in which to ensure quiet slaves among those women - capture them when they are young and keep them uneducated!!!! But like a back alley abortionist - trying to stop this horrid miscarriage of justice from being done to those young women when it's so ingrained into the 'MIND SET' of the culture and you're posting about 214 young women that may or may not chose to abort a rape fetus; MIND BLOWING to my way of thinking! That will be a choice that they make and it will be between their doctor - their GOD - for them to decide and no man to judge them for that decision - PERIOD! |
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214 of the girls Nigerian Army rescued fron Boko Haram Islamic Terrorists from their forest strong hold last week have been confirmed pregnant.Apparently from repeated rapes (not that I am surprised anyway). My question is considering the psychological consequences of this,both long and short term,can abortion be justified in this instance? Both muslims,christians and all, your view Hello, everyone here. This is my very first posting here and I hope it doesn't offend anyone. This is such a tough topic, considering the background of the case study. I couldn't help the tears that formed in my eyes, just reading through the comments from yellowrose. I have never been raped but have escaped at least one rape attempt and I shake with emotion whenever I think about the brutality of rape! As a lawyer, I have in the past helped child rape victims to pick up the pieces (in the way that I could provide support then). At a time I did push through until 3 gang rapists got convicted and went to jail. Today, the girl who was the victim of the gang rape (15 years then) has since picked up the pieces of her life together through unflinching support and counseling. She is currently in her last year in the university! I have also spent time in the past with a victim of rape who had a baby as a result of the rape. In fact, in her own case, it turned out worse than you can imagine because she had to marry the rapist - her father would not have his daughter have a baby without a father and both the rapist's family and the victim's family compelled both of them to marry as a result of the rape and the pregnancy. I met the woman while she was literarily going through 'hell' in the matrimonial home that emanated from the rape and the pregnancy! I had it tough enough trying to help! Not to talk about what she herself went through!!! I have done all this writing so that someone can at least know that I am not completely na�ve about how bad rape is and how much worse is the trauma of the rape victim. Today, as a social development worker, one of the things I push against daily is rape, especially child rape. So it is tough for me as well. However, for me (I talk from the perspective of a Bible believing, Bible practicing Christian), a girl or woman who falls victim of rape and gets pregnant as a result should not be encouraged to abort the baby. Why? The baby is innocent! The baby has no hand in the wicked brutality that produced the baby! The baby has a right to life as much as anyone of us! To cut that baby's life off would not be the best way to handle it. The adults/society around the victim have a duty to provide the right support that could provide the shoulders to lean upon. And this is part of what I engage in, in my social development work. There are many options - like giving the baby up for adoption, if the victim so wishes. I know that most victims, if they get the right support, do NOT want to kill their babies. But for me, most important of all is the position of the Bible about taking life. I would not encourage anyone to take any baby's life for any reasons. Biblically, it is sin to take anyone's life - including that of a baby. Thank you to those who have read my comments without getting angry. Yellowrose, you are a hero for having undergone rape and having pushed through to have your baby! I wish you lived around me - I would have found a way to get you involved in the social development work that I do; because as the Bible has expressed, having experienced the pain/trauma you can comfort others as well as give a shoulder to lean on - better than anyone else. Keeping the faith (Bible) is not necessarily easy task! God bless you. |
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Dear 2OLD2ME SSAREOUND,
Hello and very nice to meet you here. I read your comments about Nigeria and I want to tell you in all sincerity, that there is huge negative media propaganda, which is not totally true. In every country, there are good and bad things - I know this because I have also involved in international travels. The right way to paint a true picture of what a coin really is would be to show that it has two sides. Nigeria is a wonderful and a great country with plenty of good and warm people. Like every other country, there would also be bad people. But that would not mean placing a black card on the country as a whole. Please erase the picture of only darkness about Nigeria. Also, it is not true that the government of Nigeria has silently approved book haram. By government I believe you mean the authorities in charge. Thank you |
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214 of the girls Nigerian Army rescued fron Boko Haram Islamic Terrorists from their forest strong hold last week have been confirmed pregnant.Apparently from repeated rapes (not that I am surprised anyway). My question is considering the psychological consequences of this,both long and short term,can abortion be justified in this instance? Both muslims,christians and all, your view Hello, everyone here. This is my very first posting here and I hope it doesn't offend anyone. This is such a tough topic, considering the background of the case study. I couldn't help the tears that formed in my eyes, just reading through the comments from yellowrose. I have never been raped but have escaped at least one rape attempt and I shake with emotion whenever I think about the brutality of rape! As a lawyer, I have in the past helped child rape victims to pick up the pieces (in the way that I could provide support then). At a time I did push through until 3 gang rapists got convicted and went to jail. Today, the girl who was the victim of the gang rape (15 years then) has since picked up the pieces of her life together through unflinching support and counseling. She is currently in her last year in the university! I have also spent time in the past with a victim of rape who had a baby as a result of the rape. In fact, in her own case, it turned out worse than you can imagine because she had to marry the rapist - her father would not have his daughter have a baby without a father and both the rapist's family and the victim's family compelled both of them to marry as a result of the rape and the pregnancy. I met the woman while she was literarily going through 'hell' in the matrimonial home that emanated from the rape and the pregnancy! I had it tough enough trying to help! Not to talk about what she herself went through!!! I have done all this writing so that someone can at least know that I am not completely na�ve about how bad rape is and how much worse is the trauma of the rape victim. Today, as a social development worker, one of the things I push against daily is rape, especially child rape. So it is tough for me as well. However, for me (I talk from the perspective of a Bible believing, Bible practicing Christian), a girl or woman who falls victim of rape and gets pregnant as a result should not be encouraged to abort the baby. Why? The baby is innocent! The baby has no hand in the wicked brutality that produced the baby! The baby has a right to life as much as anyone of us! To cut that baby's life off would not be the best way to handle it. The adults/society around the victim have a duty to provide the right support that could provide the shoulders to lean upon. And this is part of what I engage in, in my social development work. There are many options - like giving the baby up for adoption, if the victim so wishes. I know that most victims, if they get the right support, do NOT want to kill their babies. But for me, most important of all is the position of the Bible about taking life. I would not encourage anyone to take any baby's life for any reasons. Biblically, it is sin to take anyone's life - including that of a baby. Thank you to those who have read my comments without getting angry. Yellowrose, you are a hero for having undergone rape and having pushed through to have your baby! I wish you lived around me - I would have found a way to get you involved in the social development work that I do; because as the Bible has expressed, having experienced the pain/trauma you can comfort others as well as give a shoulder to lean on - better than anyone else. Keeping the faith (Bible) is not necessarily easy task! God bless you. |
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Dear 2OLD2ME SSAREOUND, Hello and very nice to meet you here. I read your comments about Nigeria and I want to tell you in all sincerity, that there is huge negative media propaganda, which is not totally true. In every country, there are good and bad things - I know this because I have also involved in international travels. The right way to paint a true picture of what a coin really is would be to show that it has two sides. Nigeria is a wonderful and a great country with plenty of good and warm people. Like every other country, there would also be bad people. But that would not mean placing a black card on the country as a whole. Please erase the picture of only darkness about Nigeria. Also, it is not true that the government of Nigeria has silently approved book haram. By government I believe you mean the authorities in charge. Thank you |
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The one thing that I can't press on enough is that these babies don't deserve to die. It's not fair that they should be denied a life. I know it's hard on these young mom's that had to go through this. They will need lots of councilling and support but killing there babies that is no answer. If they did do that, to Me they would be no better that those terrorists. Those terrorists don't care about life that is why they can take it so easily, a child's life is a special thing it's new and untainted by whatever happened to bring that life about, tthat life is innocent and to kill it would be truly a terrible act just like what those terrorists are doing. i would still disagree with this, they were formed in an act of a crime being committed, so no real reason for them to deserve to live in the first place... remember your thoughts here if your ever abducted, raped and impregnated without your consent or want... |
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Edited by
2OLD2MESSAROUND
on
Mon 05/11/15 11:41 AM
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Dear 2OLD2ME SSAREOUND, Hello and very nice to meet you here. I read your comments about Nigeria and I want to tell you in all sincerity, that there is huge negative media propaganda, which is not totally true. In every country, there are good and bad things - I know this because I have also involved in international travels. The right way to paint a true picture of what a coin really is would be to show that it has two sides. Nigeria is a wonderful and a great country with plenty of good and warm people. Like every other country, there would also be bad people. But that would not mean placing a black card on the country as a whole. Please erase the picture of only darkness about Nigeria. Also, it is not true that the government of Nigeria has silently approved book haram. By government I believe you mean the authorities in charge. Thank you WELCOME to Mingle2; and with everything I post rarely do I just plaster something up here without documentation and PROOF {unless it's just my opinion} and as UNICEF is a world supported organization and the link and people that submitted data to the articles and keep looking for recent material and Nigeria to actually STEP UP and do something for these women {see the data}http://img.static.reliefweb.int/sites/reliefweb.int/files/resources-pdf-previews/203031-FGMC_NGA_Profile.png or this one http://www.unicef.org/nigeria/FGM_.pdf The doctors without borders are still in there repairing the female mutilation that is going on; pull your blinders off! Certainly it's easy to push aside the dates and 'CLAIM' that that was then and this is now and it's all so much better when indeed it's not improved - HENCE THE REASON THAT THE ILK OF BOKO HEREM HAVE BEEN AND WILL CONTINUE TO KIDNAP/RAPE THOSE YOUNG WOMEN. Your wishing it was different does not make it so;
Geeze don't we all WISH THE SAME THING...but reality and truth have a way of making it's way into the papers & media despite the lack of fact finding data that has been shut down by the Nigerian Government and the members of UNICEF and their global humanitarian work can't ask questions nor obtain the answers that would PROVE YOU RIGHT! Ugly S H I T happens to women in this region and as I've typed many times over - you just don't like that it's about your own back yard! |
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