your all forgetting the most basic of bible law facts, which is that Gods law never changes.. while mans law or his interpetations change daily. We all know that women are to be silent in the churches,,,, i didnt make the law but i know what it is. may not be politically correct, but it is what the boss says. it isnt about equality, as each partner has thier biblical Job to do. no one os superior since women are to be silent.. its just not thier job. sorryaboutithopeyougetoveritlater.

Miles wrote:
“The reason I said fire away if you took all of our post to each other is your saying that the faith is a fairy tale.”

I’m saying that in my view many of the claims that are made in the Bible appear to be no less absurd than the claims made in Greek Mythology. It’s a personal view Miles. I’m not saying anything about anyone’s “faith”, I’m merely sharing my views. If my views conflict with someone else’s faith I can’t help that.

Miles wrote:
“You never answered me on the mathmatical probability which ( correct me if i am wrong) is Darwinism.”

I’m not really concerned with “Darwinism”. He was merely the man who brought the idea of evolution to light. I don’t view evolution as being based on any mathematical probabilities. Since Darwin’s time there have been many fossils unearthed, chemical and physical experiments done, and so forth. To me evolution has nothing whatsoever to do with “faith”. From my point of view it’s an observationally confirmed science for anyone who genuinely cares to learn about and/or view the evidence.

Miles wrote:
“But you apparently did not want to tackle the probability question you base your evolution therory on. Because jerusalem chances of being a holy site to so many religions would mean it evolved from a higher power using your own belief system.”

Again, I don’t based evolution on probability, so I’m at a loss where you are coming up with that. I’m also at a loss concerning any connection between mathematical probabilities and Jerusalem being a holy site. The religion grew from that area and spread to the rest of the world, what’s so improbable about that?

Islam, Christianity, and Judaism are not really “separate” religions. They were all based on the same fundamental religion, then just split off from each other because they disagreed on various issues. There’s just nothing surprising or statistically abnormal there. So I don’t understand what you are even talking about when you claim that there is some mathematical probabilities associated with it.

If you want to think about probabilities consider this:

There are about 70 sextillion stars in the observable part of the universe. That’s 70 thousand million million million stars. Our sun is one of them. There are less than 100 chemical elements that are important for organic chemistry in all of the observable universe. Those elements are also observed to be in the same proportions throughout the entire universe. This comes as no surprise since they are formed in stars and the physics of the stars is the same throughout the universe.

So in any case, this means that there is 70 thousand million million million chances for life to evolve in a soup that has precisely the right ingredients in the right proportions, yet you are willing to believe that earth is the only planet with life on it? This would make any probabilities that could possibly be associated with Jerusalem seem totally insignificant by comparison.

So yes, I’m totally at a loss concerning your mathematical probabilities associated with Jerusalem being a holy city for a bunch of people who are basically using the same ancient documents as their religious guide. Why wouldn’t they all be focusing on the same city? They are all using the same doctrines for all intents and purposes!

It makes perfect sense. Where does this mathematical probability come into play?

It’s not a “bunch” of religions Miles. It’s one religion that fell into pieces.

Rambill wrote:
"your all forgetting the most basic of bible law facts, which is that Gods law never changes.."

This is your faith, and I respect that bill.

However for me it can't possibly be true because God's laws have changed,...

The God of the Old Testament - “An eye for an eye and, a tooth for a tooth”

The God of the New Testament – “Turn the other cheek”

Either god changed, or these were simply different opinions of two differnet men. I choose to believe the latter.

As for women must keep silent, pppffffttttt...read before and after. Women are not to be silent!! Women were in positions biblically doing the works of God (Jesus) long before all this hogwash about women suddenly became inferior (sub species). So to speak. Interpretations it seems are up for grabs by whomever reads them. Open minds read them better. JESUS NEVER THOUGHT OF WOMEN AS LESS THAN, OR BELOW THE LEVEL OF MEN!!! If HE did, women would not follow Him, now would they? Without women, the children would learn macho snobbery, and not the better points of life.
Kat

So true, Kat. Give honor where honor is due. Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's. Get over it already, huh? Gees.

I’m in total agreement with you Kat. If I were going to choose the teaching from the Bible I would definitely choose the teachings of Jesus.

However, as a religion, the idea is supposed to be the Jesus was an incarnation of the God of the old testament. So this becomes extremely problematic (at least for me it does). If the Old Testament is rejected in favor of the New, then it opens up a Pandora’s box concerning why god changed? Or to put that other way, how could Jesus have been an incarnation of the God of Abraham and preach such a different philosophy from that original god?

The New Testament without the Old brings up questions of who Jesus was if not an incarnation the God of old? Yet to believe that he was is extremely problematic too.

I would love to support and teach the teachings of Jesus!!! But only if I could do with without having to drag the Old Testatment along with it.

I’m also not convinced that Jesus died for the salvation of man. And so I wouldn’t teach that part of it. However, if there’s no reward in it for people they aren’t going to bother listening. They’d just say, “So what? If this man Jesus has nothing to offer me why should I bother listening to him?”

It’s the promise of Salvation and Everlasting life that people are after. They couldn’t care less about Jesus. Take away the free gift and the congregation will walk out. No one’s interested in hearing about morals from a man who has nothing to offer them but love. They want the ultimate fantasy of everlasting life in nirvana, were there are no taxes, and no bosses to act as task masters, and all relationships are perfect soulmates that are romantic puppy love that lasts forever.

Only then will they sit in the pews and pretend to listen.

John 8:25-26

25 Then they said to Him, "Who are You?"

And Yahshua said to them, "Just what I have been saying to you from the beginning . 26 I have many things to say and to judge concerning you, but He who sent Me is true; and I speak to the world those things which I heard from Him."
NKJV


John 8:28-30

28 Then Yahshua said to them, "When you lift up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am He, and that I do nothing of Myself; but as My Father taught Me, I speak these things. 29 And He who sent Me is with Me. The Father has not left Me alone, for I always do those things that please Him." 30 As He spoke these words, many believed in Him.
NKJV

Matt 5:17-20

"Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. 19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.
NKJV
I believe the earth is still here..


Isa 58:12
12 Those from among you
Shall build the old waste places;
You shall raise up the foundations of many generations;
And you shall be called the Repairer of the Breach ,
The Restorer of Streets to Dwell In.
NKJV


Mal 3:13-16

"Your words have been harsh against Me,"
Says Yahweh,
"Yet you say,
'What have we spoken against You?'
14 You have said,
'It is useless to serve Elohim;
What profit is it that we have kept His ordinance,
And that we have walked as mourners
Before Yahweh of hosts?
15 So now we call the proud blessed,
For those who do wickedness are raised up;
They even tempt Elohim and go free.'"


NKJV


Mal 4:4-5

4 "Remember the Law of Moses, My servant,
Which I commanded him in Horeb for all Israel,
With the statutes and judgments.
5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet
Before the coming of the great and dreadful day of Yahweh.
NKJV


Yahweh's words uphold the law of the what you want to call the old testament. That in itself gives you the notion it is done away. Yahshua in John 1 says he is the word. So he gave the law.

Yahweh says he does not change. Rebell against Yahweh and change his words it is you who has to answer.

Let the scriptures speak.. Shalom... Miles

Miles wrote:
“Rebell against Yahweh and change his words it is you who has to answer.”

Well, with over 2,500 different sects to choose from to get it right I’d say you’re in a pretty perilous predicament.

Best of luck to you Miles.

It really is not that hard. It is the law has been done away they say. This causes confusion. If you realize everything that is said in the NT is from the law then understanding it is not hard.

Prov 4:1-2

Hear, my children, the instruction of a father,
And give attention to know understanding;
2 For I give you good doctrine :
Do not forsake my law.
NKJV


Titus 1:7-9
7 For a bishop must be blameless, as a steward of Elohim, not self-willed, not quick-tempered, not given to wine, not violent, not greedy for money, 8 but hospitable, a lover of what is good, sober-minded, just, holy, self-controlled, 9 holding fast the faithful word as he has been taught, that he may be able, by sound doctrine , both to exhort and convict those who contradict.
NKJV
They did not have the NT written then. The FAITHFUL WORD AND SOUND DOCTRINE is the Law. Blessings.. Miles

Well...you know what?? I really do not believe I will be thrown to hell for reading what I read in the scripture. Hell will have to come from something much worse. At least I am trying to know something of the God I now know as "just and loving."
Kat

Absolutely he is just and loving. Hell is a doctrine of satan.. It is foriegn to the scriptures. Shalom.. Miles

God is just and loving Kat.

People who preach fire and brimstone are false prophets.

Thanks Abra, for saying it.
Kat

Gods laws do not ever change. The old testament laws still apply... the churches just choose to ignore them. example... sabbath day?
another one... the ten commandments... whats wrong with any of them?
The bible is in fact a Law book. it shows the proper way to run both your household and the Government. When we deviate, we eventually fail... every single time. As Christions we are no part of this earth, as we (SHOULD) follow Gods law rather than man.
women like to think that because of the bible restrictions placed on them by Bible law that thet they are considered inferior.. which simply isnt true. We each have our biblical jobs. Is a carpenter inferior to a doctor? they have different jobs, both being a valuable assett to the community.

Jesus said he came to fulfill the law... not change it. nothing changes between the old and new testament except the churches interpetation of the bible. I could show all that there is perfect harmony between the old and new but i have to work for a living. my advise is to pray for Guidance on this one, and let the Lord show you the proper path.. and, yes, there is only one narrow path to the truth. Lots of detours and side roads to lead you away from the truth. Stay the course and you will eventually find that there is only one truth.
I dont care about being politically correct, or being 501c3 compliant in my beliefs, or what church doctrine says. The truth can be found in the bible... you just have to want to find it.

.... besides, Im sure that beside every truly great preacher there is a wife keeping him up and running. He would shurly fold otherwise without 1/2 of the team. lol

May I borrow the good book?

My soapbox isn't tall enough to be heard.


My gender is irrelevant!!!!!

My heart is all important!!!

Preaching love temperance, tolerance and acceptance is not gender specific!!!!!!!!!

Hey 'rambill',

I'm just curious, do you actually carry this kind of 'middle-age' rethoric around your neck of the woods? It is a put 'on' isn't??? I mean for all we know, this being a virtual context and all, you might very well all be putting us 'on'!

If that is the case, you do it well. And you seem to able to push your 'act' along all sorts of topics: economics, religion, politics, etc. Remember this Evolution meets vs creationism?!?!? I was certain you meant every single confused and misguided statements you were making on there. You sure had me going there 'bill'.

I mean, there is no way you could possibly be serious in the least, about anything you claim. You probably just want to provoke people into thinking for themselves through a technique of negative reinforcement?!?!? That is, having each one of us get how insane life must have been, when everyone actually did follow the bible word for word. I mean not only couldn't peope read, they needed church wizards to tell them what to think, the book was so confused and confusing.

Anyhow, you're doing a great job of reminding us, in your own inimitable way, to never return to that age.


Again 'bill', brilliant, and many thanks. It took me a while to figure it out, but now that I have, I think you're doing a fantastic conter preaching job.

Keep it up! I feel more and more will free themselves up from a lifetime of being enslaved to the Bible and their religion, and start truly thinking for themselves.

Am I being too subtle, Voilazure?

i LIVE MY "ACT". I have and will gladly fight and die for what i know is true. Do you get off your arse and do anything but ponder? I do.