Every couple is different and we all have different ideas about what is right and wrong. A couple should have some agreement (doesn't have to be spoken or written) as to what is acceptable to them and going outside those boundaries is cheating.

Many people could care less about porno or certain levels of outside friends. Some are jealous and restrictive.

What a smart pig you are!

well said,,,

dictionary says this about the word 'cheat'

act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage, esp. in a game or examination




communication and honesty are going to define cheating in a relationship

leigh2154-metalwing understood what i said-i was not judging any one for there values or lack of-i guess i will have to be more careful what i say from now on-i need a break anyway-

its only cheating if you actually cheat. watching or thinking aint doing. my wife and I fantasied about others all thetiem. we never acted on our fantasies.

sure

well I know I would not want to be with someone who could care less...what's the point then

it's not a matter of anyone being restrictive. it's a matter of self chosen, willingly chosen behaviors out of love and respect for your partner. all behavior is a choice.

just because someone is not willing to tolerate disrespect up to and including cheating does not mean they are in any way negative or restrictive.

I think it's pretty childish to go into a relationship thinking there will be no expectation of respectful behavior, but I do agree that what those parameters are, is an indivual decision on behalf of the couple and no one else's biznizz

The definition of what is moral can vary from city to city, state to state, country to country, religions, and cultures. An example of this would be if you watch the documentary "Keep the river on your right" I think that is what it is called any way. This guy lived with cannibals I think and he even participated in various rituals with them. The men in this tribe would take a wife but they would also have a male lover or many of them would. This by most christian standards would be immoral. But by the standards of their culture it was perfectly acceptable.

Look at history and there was a time where the Romans as I recall didn't just have sex with multiple partners but they were having sex with kids. It was morally acceptable at the time.

While in America rape is a crime. In some other countries, I believe Arab types, women are looked at more as property and a man may rape a woman if he chooses.

In South America you can find stores that sell child porn which I find disgusting. But obviously there it is acceptable.



Now as to if watching porn is cheating if you are in a relationship? I think it depends on the conditions of the relationship. Some people have very open relationships. Even when they are married. So I find it hard to call it cheating when both people in the relationship have multiple partners and they both know about it. If you feel the need to do something in secret then chances are you are cheating in some degree on the other person.

I do not see fantasy as cheating either. It is a standard set by the Catholic church that basically says if you think it you've done it. I think that is crap. I don't know about anyone else. But I have a hard time control the things that pop into my head. So if every time I saw an attractive woman and thought about how I would like to bend her over a table and go to town on her I was sinning. Then I guess I'm ready to go to hell.

I personally hate religious discussions. It usually turns into my religion is right and you're going to hell. So while I am giving my opinion on this topic. I might not say anything more than what I have already said.

The fact of the matter of morals is that they do differ over time and even space. Most of the time people should not force their morals onto other people. I feel that this is largely what this topic is turning into and it is not one where certain people are actually accepting the responses of others and are only interested in hearing opinions that reflect their own. I am a realist and I realize that what is right by my standards isn't always going to be right by everyone else.

personally I do not buy into personal/cultural relativism, I think pedophilia, cannabalism, and rape are wrong and those cultures are flaws. Rape is illegal in arab countries FYI it is drastcally under reported, however, because of the stigma atached to the WOMAN (believe it or not) in the religious and rural communities in particular. (not much different than the west really)

http://aynrandlexicon.com/lexicon/morality.html

Well at least we agree on one thing: we don't agree.
Your normative morality is also based on the outside world. Had you been born in Saudi-Arabia, Africa, Japan or the Netherlands, your innate morality would've been different.

As far as cheating is concerned, I think it's important that both partners have similar / the same view on what's cheating.
Been in a relationship myself where we both had quite different ideas about this subject. Not really handy.

I know a lady who was a minister of the Church of Scotland and I know that she and her husband used pornography to spicen up their sex life.

She recently officiated at my niece's naming ceremony and I took a female friend of mine along as my "date". Anyway, I said to that minister that people would assume that that the lady that I had taken along was my girlfriend and she said that, "People will think what they like".

Same thing goes when it comes to morals. One person sees men and a patriarcal society being to blame for everything and someone else sees an erosion of moral standards and wants to get "back to basics".

These threads about sexual morality are generally not that interesting because all most people do is to state their moral principles, or just say that it's a personal matter and different people can have equally valid "conceptions of the good", which is liberalism.

Then there are the black and white thinkers that make speaches and crusade. It's the politics of resentment.

In spite of your claims of having special powers, white witchery I think you said, you can't possibly know what you state as fact....As I said, normative morality is not influenced by time, society, groups...

@ TawStrat, I agree with the lady minister "People will think what they like." and I think you should start a thread called "The Politics of Resentment", what fun that would be!

That is how you feel. Just because you think that those aeration's in societal norms are evil doesn't mean it wasn't and or isn't morally acceptable in the past or in certain places in the present. Thanks for the correction on the Arab thing by the way. I was mostly thinking of a movie called Not without my daughter. I recall a scene where the character played by Sally Field was pushed up against the wall and was going to be raped till the guy, who to protect her as I recall, said he was her husband and the guy with some force left soon after. As I recall the reason that was given was that because she wasn't married the guy could pretty much do what he wanted to her. It has been a long time since I saw that movie so I could be wrong about it. But I know it was based on a true story.

The thing that changes what is morally right in ones society it education. I am sure there were other cultures that pedophilia was morally acceptable and I expect it is widely unacceptable now days because people see the damage it does just like they see the damage done from adultery in committed relationships and other things that are morally wrong in today's societies.

I am going to close this statement by saying that it is often ones rigid adherence to their morals beliefs that ends in mass-murders and wars which I would say is just as morally wrong as the thing that the people start fighting over. That doesn't mean that people should accept all differences. But there are plenty of things throughout history that were started over retarded things. Like the feud of the McCoys and Hatfields. hahaha

To me its pretty simple. In the majority of instances its kept hidden and used as a means of self gratification while excluding their partner. A relationship is about coming together, considering each others feelings and views and making mutual descisions based on that. So yes! Its cheating. It doesnt even have to be morphed into a "moral" issue.

Brilliant post!

yes I agree with the latter half of what you are saying here because I have had more than one partner assume I would be faithful and monogamous but it was OK if he was not. seriously.

are you implying that I am rigid? I don;t know that anyone on here knows me well enough to judge that.

I tend not to be at all rigid in a personal sense I am definitely a rule bender. I will admit however that I have heightened sense of the value of trying to make the best choices.

certain acts of degradation disrespect and violence are wrong. I stand by that. they may be practiced by someone somewhere, but that does not make them acceptable. I totally agree with what you said about education. the corollary to that is to learn about respect for oneself and others. to honor ourselves and others does not include non consensual acts of violence. people used to burn witches and warlocks too. just because something was one way, or is one way does not mean that it is acceptable. it wasn't acceptable to many with in those medieval societies - just a bunch of perverts in power.

I can't recall what I was thinking when I mention rigidly sticking to ones moral or religious beliefs. But I know when I was talking about people being executed for differences in belief I was thinking of things like Indians, primitive tribes who practiced cannibalism or ritual sacrifice, I bet if it was checked on the tribe in that documentary I mentioned would have been hit hard by christian societies because they didn't understand nor care to try to understand the tribe. Holy wars were another thing I was thinking.

Thinking about how this post was started and how it's progressed though. It seems to me that it wasn't started to get answers to a question. But to find people who think different and convert them to a more rigid moral/religious view. At least that's the way it seems with what I observed. Seems like a trap since one person was saying they don't think watching porn was cheating and then another person was giving replies that seem like things from a bible. Maybe that's just my observation though.