I never did either, not just taking care of myself,,

that changed when I was responsible for a child though,,,

Dodo_David - absolutely!

MsHarmony - wait, what? "Unless..." ?? Your use of language suggests you think that 'considering 3rd world nations' is only relevant if 'we want our standard of living to be their equivalent' which is absurd.

Remembering third world nations often helps people to realize just how selfish, entitled, self absorbed, and materialist our culture in the US really is - rich and poor alike.

This cultural programming is the great harm that I feel is done to poor people in the US. The majority of poor people in the US have MORE than enough material wealth and material power. They are bombarded with the message that they need more to be happy. They are told - sometimes by people like you - that they need things that they don't need, which encourages their own misery. They are told that they are worth less as people simply for being poor, and so they harm themselves trying to put on the appearance of greater wealth. (That happens to middle class and upper class people, too).

Most poor people in the US already have enough material wealth and power. What they need (besides safer neighborhoods, and to be treated decently by others) is encouragement the take greater personal responsibility in their lives, and to simply understand that in many ways they already have enough.

ANYWAY......



what power does a single mother have with 1000 per month?

childcare costs, or transportation costs, insurance, heating and air, water, trash, food, rent, comunication resources (And yes, in this spread out culture communication has become a NECESSITY), internet and/or phone,

IM so sick of people poo pooing real struggle of human beings because they are able to have some tiny fraction of 'luxury' like hair care or internet,, what is that? 50 a month?

so having an extra 100 a month to have some BALANCE Of wants while struggling to meet needs means poor people have 'wealth and power'

seriously?

this is america, , yes we have it BETTER Than other nations, but does that mean we dont have any need to do better?

a C is better than an F, does that mean children shouldnt strive for the A if they are capable of it?

seriously?


,,I don't know what to tell such out of touch people other than struggle is real, whether someone else struggles more or not,,,

the 'well others have it worst' response is

like arguing that rape victims should not be complaining because other people have been tortured and killed

sorry, I dont buy that people having it worse makes it ok for people to have it bad and be treated as second class unnecessarily,,,

personal responsibility is not somehow lacking in a person just because they are impoverished,,,

Matthew 6:28 is the twenty-eighth verse of the sixth chapter of the Gospel of Matthew in the New Testament and is part of the Sermon on the Mount.

This verse continues the discussion of worry about material provisions.

In the King James Version of the Bible the text reads:

And why take ye thought for raiment?
Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow;
they toil not, neither do they spin:

The World English Bible translates the passage as:

Why are you anxious about clothing?
Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow.
They don’t toil, neither do they spin,

The Magic of Gratitude will change your life for the better.

But they all die young!

Young is relative.

personally speaking, I am a very grateful person,, but it doesn't lesson the struggles

gratitude makes things bearable, but it isn't a replacement for correction or improvement,,

Of course not. I don't see anyone saying that. There are many reasons a person might be financially 'impoverished' (esp. temporarily), other than a lack of personal responsibility.

It just happens that many, many poor people in the US suffer from an attitude of entitlement and poor person responsibility, and those two factors should not be completely ignored when discussing the causes and cures of poverty.




This depends a lot on where you live. In some cities, you can't even rent a place to live. Since we criminalize homelessness, you really don't have much power in those cities.

But in many towns, this gives you the power to have a room, a working kitchen, a working shower, use of public transit, an excellent bicycle, an ugly but reliable car (if you are sensible about it), and more than enough nutritious, safe-to-eat food. You can buy an old laptop for $50 (one for which you'd have paid $2,000 a decade ago).





If you feel that you can't afford to feed yourself, do NOT choose any luxuries for yourself. Doing so is flat out stupid. And if you are accepting public assistance, its selfish. You are basically saying that you think its okay to use other people's money (taken from them by force!) to buy yourself luxuries, while they are working to provide for themselves.

I'm not poo pooing their real struggle - I'm saying that people who waste their money are *helping to make their own struggle*.

Telling them that their poverty is in no way their own fault, and telling them they are entitled to get more, for free, is only hurting them.




Yes, we should do a lot better. We should do a lot better at appreciating what we have. We should do better at examining and checking our attitudes of entitlement.






Hahahahahahahahahahaa when it comes to luxuries, there is no thing as an 'A'! The line just keeps going and going and going. This is the danger and poison of entitlement attitudes. The same poor people who think its just fine to waste their money on luxuries and then cry about how they can't meet their needs would do so no matter how many luxuries we give them.

Edit: Cultivating appreciation for what we have, as I think JB brought into the dialog, is really important and helpful here.



No, it really isn't. Being poor in america is not at all like being raped. lol. It really isn't.




Okay, we probably agree there. But what is 'treating as second class' ?

Meeting claims of hardship and poverty with an investigation into means by which they can take greater personal responsibility is NOT treating them as second class. We should do this to everyone, all the time. Rich people can be personally irresponsible, too! And they can have the worst entitlement attitudes.

Poor people are not less than other people!

yes, so if we should appreciate what we have, perhaps we should just end mingle, and all the threads that complain of anything that needs improving

many nations are ruled by DICTATORS after all who shoot them for things like bootlegging movies or stone them for having sex outside of marriage

we should just be GRATEFUL to be protected from those things and stop feeling ENTITLED to sexual freedom and life,,,lol


Guess what, a good portion of those on 'assistance' are doing so while working one or more jobs,,, so should they not feel like they can pay to do something for themself sometimes? Which dollars is it ok for them to spend for self? should they seperate what they earn and only buy 'luxuries' from that and then spend 'taxpayer' money only on what the taxpayers tell them they can or should have?


yeah, in all socioeconomic classes there are people who dont take personal responsibility and have an inflated sense of 'entitlement'

however, for anyone who has studied psychology, it is also a necessary trait for survival to feel SELF WORTH< and that happens not just in meeting responsibility but seeing some type of REWARD, beyond just basic struggling

so the idea that basic upkeep of appearance or reliable transportation with which to transport children in or any other of the little tidbits people make so much fuss over the poor having the audacity to get for themselves, is a nonsensical smokescreen

being poor doesnt mean you dont deserve to feel human or worth amall 'luxuries' here and there

all work and no play will drive people crazy, poor or wealthy , and the idea that being poor means one should have nothing BUT The basics is classist and insane , ,in my opinion


taxes are taken by force, so is social security, so is state tax, everyone who works gets something taken from them that they may or may not ever use,,, they dont HOLD Those funds until those citizens need it,, they use it in their CURRENT budget for others who do

and it pays forward by expecting eacn new generation to do it for the next,, thats the cost to have the 'luxuries' of being american and having free sex, and an abundance of food, and technology,,,etc,,etc,, etc,,,

half the country doesnt make enough to pay income tax, perhaps its too much of an entitlement for all of them to have a vote too,,,,

Yes it does.



You don't get it.

If you see your life as simply 'bearable' then you are not feeling gratitude.

nm


Im grateful for the epiphone that people who are not in the situation will tell others who are how to make it better,,,,


its kind of like how non parents constantly critique how parents raise their kids,,,

,,,everyones entitled to their opinion still,,,


even when they are very inexperienced opinions,,,

There is nothing wrong with a few 'luxuries.'

After seeing how some people in third world countries live, I feel that having a kitchen with running water, a toilet that flushes, floor that is not dirt, and a heater to be a great luxury.

After my divorce I moved here from Alabama.

When I first moved here I lived in an old store with a wood stove that had a toilet. No kitchen. No heat, no running water except for the toilet. I heated my 'house' with a small wood stove. I was lucky enough to be living right next to my Mom and Dad who had a kitchen and a bathtub which I used. There house was very small. Too small for me to live there.

Eventually after a few years, I got a small kitchen built in my place, (which was four storage rooms in back of an old store building) and I started making improvements a little bit at a time.

One cold night, I was sitting in an old used recliner (purchased for one dollar at the fireman's auction) next to my little wood stove, drinking a glass of tea, watching a small television with borrowed cable, and I was so very grateful.

I thought... "It doesn't get any better than this!"

I was free, I was warm, I had a roof over my head. Yes, to me that was luxury. Gradually, I improved things bit by bit but always with gratitude.

Life was likewise wonderful for me when I only had myself to look after too

Ive lived in a studio no bigger than my childhood room, and felt all was good

I, alone, didnt need much, I was no longer a growing developing child, I didnt need much for food, or shelter, or sleep, I could skimp on things without much worry

once I became a mother, the same was not true for my kids,, and life was alot less 'wonderful' wondering how to provide those things that now were necessary for THEM, that I didnt mind skimping on for me,,,

yep, If I were a single adult, any life would be wonderful
24 hours a day I would have to do what ever I needed or wanted, I could work 2 jobs or I could work one and still live in a room in someone elses home and maybe live on ramen

those are not OPTIONS for my children however, and that time is no longer mine to schedule and use for my own care,, there is someone else there needing SUPERVISION, needing stability, needing a schedule and a routine, needing a healthy diet and regular meals,needing a safe community to live in, needing to be engaged in activities to engage her body and mind, needing reliable heat and plumbing,, etc,,

its a totally different standard as a single parent than it is a single adult,,,

Yes, I know that. That is why I did not have any children. (It was a choice.)

Stop defending yourself, you have no reason to. No one is criticizing you. You seem to think everyone is criticizing you for something.

If I learned one thing from my X-husband, who was black, it was how to hold my head up and demand respect as a human being no matter what my circumstances were, and how to show respect to people as human beings, no matter what their circumstances were. He taught me that.

In this society, the government seems to be raising the children anyway. They insist all births be registered with them. They control what your children are taught in schools. Some social services agencies seem to feel they have more right to raise your children than you do. They will charge you with abuse if they don't approve of your methods or of your treatments for your child's health. They will feed your children GMO food at school and then insist that you have to have a doctor's excuse if you send your child to school with a sack lunch. It has gotten ridiculous!

So if the government wants that much control over our children, then they should probably pay to raise them, and pay for their healthcare too.

I'm just following along today because I'm still interested in this thread...Would like to say good post though...

Much of your last post is a distortion of other people's views, and doesn't really help the discussion. Jousting straw men is tiresome.



The answer will depend on the person's greed and entitlement attitude.



When people complain of not having their needs met, while they are enjoying luxuries, its simply evidence of their worldview and approach, that's all. No one is fussing over it except them.



Are you saying that it takes small luxuries to feel human? That would suggest you have internalized the classist view that poor people are worth less, and that 'feeling human' must be paid for.

Feeling human is a birthright for all of us. For those who have the *minimal* level of physiologic needs being met - only cultural programming can take it away.




Not all poor people are on government assistance, and not all people on government assistance are poor.

People on government assistance should only have the basics.

Poor people who want more than the basics should seek a way to get it through honest labor.

As it is, most poor people in america have far more than the basics, imo.