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| Topic: Institutional Racism ? | |
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Crime is a severe problem in Ecuador. Crimes against U.S. citizens in the past year have ranged from petty theft to violent offenses, including armed robbery, home invasion, sexual assault, and several instances of murder and attempted murder. Very low rates of apprehension and conviction of criminals � due to limited police and judicial resources � contribute to Ecuador�s high crime rate. http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1106.html#crime however, it was posted in another thread, and I Believe it to be true that COLLECTIVIST cultures tend to be less negatively impacted in terms of crime,, by poverty than INDIVIDUALISTIC cultures tend to be probably because the value of humans comes more as a function of their PLACE as a MEMBER OF SOCITY in collectivism, decreasing the desire to climb atop of or ignore the needs and wants of others, because the focus is the community as a whole where as the value of humans in individualism comes from how they RANK compared to others,,,increasing the temptation to climb atop of others and ignore their needs and wants to focus solely on our own Yeah... Not so much.. Last year 14,000 people were murdered in Venezuela, three times more than Iraq. Why? Gang warfare. Rory Carroll reports on how one group is trying to escape the cycle of violence. This is Venezuela, where more than 14,000 people were murdered last year, according to human rights groups. That is about three times bloodier than Iraq, which has a similar population. The government does not publish full statistics but says the official murder rate is 48 per 100,000 people, more than double South America's average. Some estimate the rate in Caracas to be as high as 140 per 100,000, making it one of the world's deadliest capitals. Hospital emergency wards overflow, especially at weekends, with bleeding, punctured casualties. Corpses stack up in morgues while grief-stricken relatives gather outside, noses cupped against the smell. What makes this corner of South America, once best known for oil and beauty queens, a Hobbesian lottery? The short answer is gangs. Young men with guns drop bodies as they battle over turf and drugs in winding, rubbish-strewn streets. The catch-all description for them is malandros, supposedly feral thugs and ne'er-do-wells perpetually at war with themselves and the rest of society. They inhabit, Venezuelans tell you, the land "up there": hillside barrios. Malandros flit across television screens and newspapers as cadavers or hooded suspects paraded by police. Either way they are anonymous cyphers who do not speak, leaving their motivations, their world, incomprehensible to outsiders. A war over a piece of popcorn? http://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/mar/10/venezuela-caracas-gang-warfare-murder I repeat: COLLECTIVIST cultures tend to be less negatively impacted in terms of crime,, by poverty than INDIVIDUALISTIC cultures tend to be TEND TO BE,, not an absolute also Venezuela has a slightly higher poverty rate than Iraq as well interestingly enough , Iraq also has about half the murder rate of the USA,,,,officially North Korea is a collectivist society... You wanna live there? China.. You wanna live there? Bolivia... The writing was on the wall. Daubed in white paint on adobe bricks, it read: "Thieves who are caught will be burned alive." The zero-tolerance message can be seen throughout El Alto, a sprawling Altiplano city on a mountain above La Paz. Lifesize effigies emblazoned with similar threats are strung like scarecrows on lamp-posts and telephone poles. Most depict men but one was festooned with the typical twin plaits and petticoats of a cholita � a traditionally dressed Aymara woman. A local shopkeeper � an Aymara woman with gold-rimmed front teeth � confirmed the warning. "If we catch thieves here, we kill them," she said. It is not an empty threat: according to the UN office of the high commissioner for human rights in Bolivia, nine people were killed in 30 lynchings in the first 10 months of 2011.The figures marked a "notable decrease" compared to previous years, the annual report noted. Victims generally are suspected thieves who are tied to a post to be stripped, beaten and burned. The police sometimes intervene � but they are often outnumbered by the mob � and sometimes become victims themselves. Such vigilantism is normally a spontaneous response to high levels of crime, but an Aymara leader in El Alto is now calling for harsh punishments to be meted under the auspices of community justice laws enshrined in President Evo Morales's 2009 constitution. http://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/dec/12/crime-bolivia There is some collectivist community justice.. Is that what you want here? Community Justice Laws where we burn or lynch thieves? Cuba... How would you like to live there? Black Cubans still struggle against discrimination �More than half a century ago, Fidel decreed the elimination of racism,� said Leonardo Calvo Cardenas. But �this just made the problem deeper and more complex.� �We have a message for the American left, especially the African American left,� he said. �There are forgotten Cubans, invisible Cubans, many of them Afro-Cubans, many of them not. They do not live in the utopia that some Americans still imagine. They live in Cuba.� http://www.japantimes.co.jp/opinion/2013/06/22/commentary/black-cubans-still-struggle-against-discrimination/#.Uix_Kj_Ha-U I suggest you take a trip a any of these countries I listed and see for yourself how wrong your collectivist utopia really is. Very well stated, "it takes a village to raise a child" aka Hilliary Clinton, is a very dangerous precedent to collectivism. 
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All of this stuff is very well stated, but how does it pertain to the OP's stand on institutional racism?...He was pretty firm in his claim that it does not exist...I think one of the biggest reasons so many deny it is because the federal government has and is doing so much to guard against discrimination�We have housing legislation, educational legislation, lending and employment laws, health care laws, and criminal justice laws specifically designed to address civil rights issues�.What is glaringly obvious is the fact that, in the absence of discrimination, there would be NO NEED for these laws!�Investing a vast amount of time, work, and money into efforts to correct racial disparities does not mean they no longer exist�In fact, based on human nature alone, it would be more reasonable to "assume" the actions, intentional or unintentional, have just become more subtle...
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All of this stuff is very well stated, but how does it pertain to the OP's stand on institutional racism?...He was pretty firm in his claim that it does not exist...I think one of the biggest reasons so many deny it is because the federal government has and is doing so much to guard against discrimination�We have housing legislation, educational legislation, lending and employment laws, health care laws, and criminal justice laws specifically designed to address civil rights issues�.What is glaringly obvious is the fact that, in the absence of discrimination, there would be NO NEED for these laws!�Investing a vast amount of time, work, and money into efforts to correct racial disparities does not mean they no longer exist�In fact, based on human nature alone, it would be more reasonable to "assume" the actions, intentional or unintentional, have just become more subtle... My posts pertain to individual claims that institutional racism is a result of the belief in the rights of the individual over the collective. A collective society has less racism and violence. This is simply not true and has to be noted. |
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All of this stuff is very well stated, but how does it pertain to the OP's stand on institutional racism?...He was pretty firm in his claim that it does not exist...I think one of the biggest reasons so many deny it is because the federal government has and is doing so much to guard against discrimination�We have housing legislation, educational legislation, lending and employment laws, health care laws, and criminal justice laws specifically designed to address civil rights issues�.What is glaringly obvious is the fact that, in the absence of discrimination, there would be NO NEED for these laws!�Investing a vast amount of time, work, and money into efforts to correct racial disparities does not mean they no longer exist�In fact, based on human nature alone, it would be more reasonable to "assume" the actions, intentional or unintentional, have just become more subtle... My posts pertain to individual claims that institutional racism is a result of the belief in the rights of the individual over the collective. A collective society has less racism and violence. This is simply not true and has to be noted. I know Invictus and you're right, you usually are...I was just hoping, for once, those who are so sure institutional racism is a thing of the past would provide some solid proof.... |
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Crime is a severe problem in Ecuador. Crimes against U.S. citizens in the past year have ranged from petty theft to violent offenses, including armed robbery, home invasion, sexual assault, and several instances of murder and attempted murder. Very low rates of apprehension and conviction of criminals � due to limited police and judicial resources � contribute to Ecuador�s high crime rate. http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1106.html#crime however, it was posted in another thread, and I Believe it to be true that COLLECTIVIST cultures tend to be less negatively impacted in terms of crime,, by poverty than INDIVIDUALISTIC cultures tend to be probably because the value of humans comes more as a function of their PLACE as a MEMBER OF SOCITY in collectivism, decreasing the desire to climb atop of or ignore the needs and wants of others, because the focus is the community as a whole where as the value of humans in individualism comes from how they RANK compared to others,,,increasing the temptation to climb atop of others and ignore their needs and wants to focus solely on our own Yeah... Not so much.. Last year 14,000 people were murdered in Venezuela, three times more than Iraq. Why? Gang warfare. Rory Carroll reports on how one group is trying to escape the cycle of violence. This is Venezuela, where more than 14,000 people were murdered last year, according to human rights groups. That is about three times bloodier than Iraq, which has a similar population. The government does not publish full statistics but says the official murder rate is 48 per 100,000 people, more than double South America's average. Some estimate the rate in Caracas to be as high as 140 per 100,000, making it one of the world's deadliest capitals. Hospital emergency wards overflow, especially at weekends, with bleeding, punctured casualties. Corpses stack up in morgues while grief-stricken relatives gather outside, noses cupped against the smell. What makes this corner of South America, once best known for oil and beauty queens, a Hobbesian lottery? The short answer is gangs. Young men with guns drop bodies as they battle over turf and drugs in winding, rubbish-strewn streets. The catch-all description for them is malandros, supposedly feral thugs and ne'er-do-wells perpetually at war with themselves and the rest of society. They inhabit, Venezuelans tell you, the land "up there": hillside barrios. Malandros flit across television screens and newspapers as cadavers or hooded suspects paraded by police. Either way they are anonymous cyphers who do not speak, leaving their motivations, their world, incomprehensible to outsiders. A war over a piece of popcorn? http://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/mar/10/venezuela-caracas-gang-warfare-murder I repeat: COLLECTIVIST cultures tend to be less negatively impacted in terms of crime,, by poverty than INDIVIDUALISTIC cultures tend to be TEND TO BE,, not an absolute also Venezuela has a slightly higher poverty rate than Iraq as well interestingly enough , Iraq also has about half the murder rate of the USA,,,,officially North Korea is a collectivist society... You wanna live there? China.. You wanna live there? Bolivia... The writing was on the wall. Daubed in white paint on adobe bricks, it read: "Thieves who are caught will be burned alive." The zero-tolerance message can be seen throughout El Alto, a sprawling Altiplano city on a mountain above La Paz. Lifesize effigies emblazoned with similar threats are strung like scarecrows on lamp-posts and telephone poles. Most depict men but one was festooned with the typical twin plaits and petticoats of a cholita � a traditionally dressed Aymara woman. A local shopkeeper � an Aymara woman with gold-rimmed front teeth � confirmed the warning. "If we catch thieves here, we kill them," she said. It is not an empty threat: according to the UN office of the high commissioner for human rights in Bolivia, nine people were killed in 30 lynchings in the first 10 months of 2011.The figures marked a "notable decrease" compared to previous years, the annual report noted. Victims generally are suspected thieves who are tied to a post to be stripped, beaten and burned. The police sometimes intervene � but they are often outnumbered by the mob � and sometimes become victims themselves. Such vigilantism is normally a spontaneous response to high levels of crime, but an Aymara leader in El Alto is now calling for harsh punishments to be meted under the auspices of community justice laws enshrined in President Evo Morales's 2009 constitution. http://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/dec/12/crime-bolivia There is some collectivist community justice.. Is that what you want here? Community Justice Laws where we burn or lynch thieves? Cuba... How would you like to live there? Black Cubans still struggle against discrimination �More than half a century ago, Fidel decreed the elimination of racism,� said Leonardo Calvo Cardenas. But �this just made the problem deeper and more complex.� �We have a message for the American left, especially the African American left,� he said. �There are forgotten Cubans, invisible Cubans, many of them Afro-Cubans, many of them not. They do not live in the utopia that some Americans still imagine. They live in Cuba.� http://www.japantimes.co.jp/opinion/2013/06/22/commentary/black-cubans-still-struggle-against-discrimination/#.Uix_Kj_Ha-U I suggest you take a trip a any of these countries I listed and see for yourself how wrong your collectivist utopia really is. Very well stated, "it takes a village to raise a child" aka Hilliary Clinton, is a very dangerous precedent to collectivism.
lol,, touchy touchy again, for clarity 'TENDS TO' if we want safety, we sometimes sacrifice other things,, if we want 'freedom' we sometimes sacrifice safety |
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All of this stuff is very well stated, but how does it pertain to the OP's stand on institutional racism?...He was pretty firm in his claim that it does not exist...I think one of the biggest reasons so many deny it is because the federal government has and is doing so much to guard against discrimination�We have housing legislation, educational legislation, lending and employment laws, health care laws, and criminal justice laws specifically designed to address civil rights issues�.What is glaringly obvious is the fact that, in the absence of discrimination, there would be NO NEED for these laws!�Investing a vast amount of time, work, and money into efforts to correct racial disparities does not mean they no longer exist�In fact, based on human nature alone, it would be more reasonable to "assume" the actions, intentional or unintentional, have just become more subtle... My posts pertain to individual claims that institutional racism is a result of the belief in the rights of the individual over the collective. A collective society has less racism and violence. This is simply not true and has to be noted. institutional racism is a result of bigotry and oppression,, the link between CRIME AND POVERTY, tends to be more prominent in individualistic cultures than collectivist cultures TWO separate points, not meant to be combined or distorted |
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All of this stuff is very well stated, but how does it pertain to the OP's stand on institutional racism?...He was pretty firm in his claim that it does not exist...I think one of the biggest reasons so many deny it is because the federal government has and is doing so much to guard against discrimination�We have housing legislation, educational legislation, lending and employment laws, health care laws, and criminal justice laws specifically designed to address civil rights issues�.What is glaringly obvious is the fact that, in the absence of discrimination, there would be NO NEED for these laws!�Investing a vast amount of time, work, and money into efforts to correct racial disparities does not mean they no longer exist�In fact, based on human nature alone, it would be more reasonable to "assume" the actions, intentional or unintentional, have just become more subtle... My posts pertain to individual claims that institutional racism is a result of the belief in the rights of the individual over the collective. A collective society has less racism and violence. This is simply not true and has to be noted. institutional racism is a result of bigotry and oppression,, the link between CRIME AND POVERTY, tends to be more prominent in individualistic cultures than collectivist cultures TWO separate points, not meant to be combined or distorted the link between CRIME AND POVERTY, tends to be more prominent in individualistic cultures than collectivist cultures LOL... Maybe if you keep typing this it might eventually be true.. hahaha |
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Edited by
msharmony
on
Sun 09/08/13 02:46 PM
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show me the proof that it doesn't 'tend' to correlate?
or does the idea that people who are centered around themselves are less apt to care enough about the safety or boundaries of others than people who are centered around others seem somehow improbable or impossible to you? why would that possibly be untrue or how can one prove it isn't? |
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All of this stuff is very well stated, but how does it pertain to the OP's stand on institutional racism?...He was pretty firm in his claim that it does not exist...I think one of the biggest reasons so many deny it is because the federal government has and is doing so much to guard against discrimination�We have housing legislation, educational legislation, lending and employment laws, health care laws, and criminal justice laws specifically designed to address civil rights issues�.What is glaringly obvious is the fact that, in the absence of discrimination, there would be NO NEED for these laws!�Investing a vast amount of time, work, and money into efforts to correct racial disparities does not mean they no longer exist�In fact, based on human nature alone, it would be more reasonable to "assume" the actions, intentional or unintentional, have just become more subtle... My posts pertain to individual claims that institutional racism is a result of the belief in the rights of the individual over the collective. A collective society has less racism and violence. This is simply not true and has to be noted. institutional racism is a result of bigotry and oppression,, the link between CRIME AND POVERTY, tends to be more prominent in individualistic cultures than collectivist cultures TWO separate points, not meant to be combined or distorted If you are going to insist institutional racism exists you should feel obligated to know how to defend your claim...Institutional racism is not about individual behaviors, it's about the "policies" of a dominant race, gender, or ethnic institution and the "joint" behavior of those who control these various institutions�.Institutional discrimination is embedded in public and private sector institutions throughout the country�The primary difference between individual and institutional discrimination is two part, who can practice it and how it is practiced�.A person of any race, ethnicity, or gender can carry out individual acts of discrimination and theses acts are usually easy to identify�Institutional discrimination can only be carried out against minority groups by dominant groups who are in control and these acts are not so easily identified because they are embedded in the policies of the social institutions who discriminate� Government, private corporations, real estate developers, and banks are overwhelmingly controlled by whites, BUT minority controlled institutions practice institutional racism too, it just happens on a much smaller scale and, for obvious reasons, it is always referred to as institutional discrimination�A good example would be a minority-run local government� |
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. . .BUT minority controlled institutions practice institutional racism too, it just happens on a much smaller scale and, for obvious reasons, it is always referred to as institutional discrimination�A good example would be a minority-run local government�
^^^ What she said. By the way, it seems to me that a bit of a straw-man argument has been made. The OP doesn't say that institutional racism is extinct. Instead, it challenges particular claims of institutional racism. As I see it, way too many people cry "Institutional Racism!" before all other possibilities have been ruled out. |
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. . .BUT minority controlled institutions practice institutional racism too, it just happens on a much smaller scale and, for obvious reasons, it is always referred to as institutional discrimination�A good example would be a minority-run local government�
^^^ What she said. By the way, it seems to me that a bit of a straw-man argument has been made. The OP doesn't say that institutional racism is extinct. Instead, it challenges particular claims of institutional racism. As I see it, way too many people cry "Institutional Racism!" before all other possibilities have been ruled out. That's true David and sometimes some people cry institutional racism without even understanding what it is...Sometimes they confuse it with individual racism,sometimes they confuse it with structural racism, and sometimes they use it as a way to work the system....Understanding it, learning how to recognize it, standing up to it when it happens, these are the only effective ways to control it.... |
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. . .BUT minority controlled institutions practice institutional racism too, it just happens on a much smaller scale and, for obvious reasons, it is always referred to as institutional discrimination�A good example would be a minority-run local government�
^^^ What she said. By the way, it seems to me that a bit of a straw-man argument has been made. The OP doesn't say that institutional racism is extinct. Instead, it challenges particular claims of institutional racism. As I see it, way too many people cry "Institutional Racism!" before all other possibilities have been ruled out. That's true David and sometimes some people cry institutional racism without even understanding what it is...Sometimes they confuse it with individual racism,sometimes they confuse it with structural racism, and sometimes they use it as a way to work the system....Understanding it, learning how to recognize it, standing up to it when it happens, these are the only effective ways to control it.... It has been said that if the only tool in your tool box is a hammer, then all of your problems will look like nails to you. I suspect that some people cry "Racism!" because they don't know how to cope with problems that don't involve racism. Again, I don't mind someone crying "Racism!" if that person demonstrates that he/she has eliminated all other possibilities. |
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. . .BUT minority controlled institutions practice institutional racism too, it just happens on a much smaller scale and, for obvious reasons, it is always referred to as institutional discrimination�A good example would be a minority-run local government�
^^^ What she said. By the way, it seems to me that a bit of a straw-man argument has been made. The OP doesn't say that institutional racism is extinct. Instead, it challenges particular claims of institutional racism. As I see it, way too many people cry "Institutional Racism!" before all other possibilities have been ruled out. That's true David and sometimes some people cry institutional racism without even understanding what it is...Sometimes they confuse it with individual racism,sometimes they confuse it with structural racism, and sometimes they use it as a way to work the system....Understanding it, learning how to recognize it, standing up to it when it happens, these are the only effective ways to control it.... It has been said that if the only tool in your tool box is a hammer, then all of your problems will look like nails to you. I suspect that some people cry "Racism!" because they don't know how to cope with problems that don't involve racism. Again, I don't mind someone crying "Racism!" if that person demonstrates that he/she has eliminated all other possibilities.  Yes, when it happens, people should cry out...I'm off to watch a movie, have a good evening David...
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All of this stuff is very well stated, but how does it pertain to the OP's stand on institutional racism?...He was pretty firm in his claim that it does not exist...I think one of the biggest reasons so many deny it is because the federal government has and is doing so much to guard against discrimination�We have housing legislation, educational legislation, lending and employment laws, health care laws, and criminal justice laws specifically designed to address civil rights issues�.What is glaringly obvious is the fact that, in the absence of discrimination, there would be NO NEED for these laws!�Investing a vast amount of time, work, and money into efforts to correct racial disparities does not mean they no longer exist�In fact, based on human nature alone, it would be more reasonable to "assume" the actions, intentional or unintentional, have just become more subtle... My posts pertain to individual claims that institutional racism is a result of the belief in the rights of the individual over the collective. A collective society has less racism and violence. This is simply not true and has to be noted. institutional racism is a result of bigotry and oppression,, the link between CRIME AND POVERTY, tends to be more prominent in individualistic cultures than collectivist cultures TWO separate points, not meant to be combined or distorted If you are going to insist institutional racism exists you should feel obligated to know how to defend your claim...Institutional racism is not about individual behaviors, it's about the "policies" of a dominant race, gender, or ethnic institution and the "joint" behavior of those who control these various institutions�.Institutional discrimination is embedded in public and private sector institutions throughout the country�The primary difference between individual and institutional discrimination is two part, who can practice it and how it is practiced�.A person of any race, ethnicity, or gender can carry out individual acts of discrimination and theses acts are usually easy to identify�Institutional discrimination can only be carried out against minority groups by dominant groups who are in control and these acts are not so easily identified because they are embedded in the policies of the social institutions who discriminate� Government, private corporations, real estate developers, and banks are overwhelmingly controlled by whites, BUT minority controlled institutions practice institutional racism too, it just happens on a much smaller scale and, for obvious reasons, it is always referred to as institutional discrimination�A good example would be a minority-run local government� I understand all that,, I was not making any reference to individual vs institutional racism though I wrote about two separate points,, ONE Being crime and poverty and how they correlate more STRONGLY in cultures that are individualistic rather than collective and TWO being that institutional racism is a result of (historical) bigotry and oppression |
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All of this stuff is very well stated, but how does it pertain to the OP's stand on institutional racism?...He was pretty firm in his claim that it does not exist...I think one of the biggest reasons so many deny it is because the federal government has and is doing so much to guard against discrimination�We have housing legislation, educational legislation, lending and employment laws, health care laws, and criminal justice laws specifically designed to address civil rights issues�.What is glaringly obvious is the fact that, in the absence of discrimination, there would be NO NEED for these laws!�Investing a vast amount of time, work, and money into efforts to correct racial disparities does not mean they no longer exist�In fact, based on human nature alone, it would be more reasonable to "assume" the actions, intentional or unintentional, have just become more subtle... My posts pertain to individual claims that institutional racism is a result of the belief in the rights of the individual over the collective. A collective society has less racism and violence. This is simply not true and has to be noted. and it was never stated for the third time CRIME AND POVERTY seem to correlate more strongly in individualistic cultures does not mean they have LESS racism or LESS violence, it means you will see a stronger CORRELATION to crime and poverty in individualistic cultures and institutional racism is the result of (historical) bigotry and oppression which by its nature creates a CASTE system where those who are the longest oppressed get stuck at the bottom of the system,,, |
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. . .BUT minority controlled institutions practice institutional racism too, it just happens on a much smaller scale and, for obvious reasons, it is always referred to as institutional discrimination�A good example would be a minority-run local government�
^^^ What she said. By the way, it seems to me that a bit of a straw-man argument has been made. The OP doesn't say that institutional racism is extinct. Instead, it challenges particular claims of institutional racism. As I see it, way too many people cry "Institutional Racism!" before all other possibilities have been ruled out. That's true David and sometimes some people cry institutional racism without even understanding what it is...Sometimes they confuse it with individual racism,sometimes they confuse it with structural racism, and sometimes they use it as a way to work the system....Understanding it, learning how to recognize it, standing up to it when it happens, these are the only effective ways to control it.... It has been said that if the only tool in your tool box is a hammer, then all of your problems will look like nails to you. I suspect that some people cry "Racism!" because they don't know how to cope with problems that don't involve racism. Again, I don't mind someone crying "Racism!" if that person demonstrates that he/she has eliminated all other possibilities. and if there is indeed more than one possibility,, why do you insist RACISM must be the final one,,,as opposed to somewhere else in the list , based upon its reasonableness for instance, with sexism(another ism) If my boss has a habit of smacking the pretty females on the behind he COULD just have a rare culture where this is how females are greeted or those particular females COULD be sending him signals they enjoy that type of flirtations or he COULD be sexist ,,now tell me, if he IS sexist, why must someone observing it avoid that reason just because there could be others on the list? |
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. . .BUT minority controlled institutions practice institutional racism too, it just happens on a much smaller scale and, for obvious reasons, it is always referred to as institutional discrimination�A good example would be a minority-run local government�
^^^ What she said. By the way, it seems to me that a bit of a straw-man argument has been made. The OP doesn't say that institutional racism is extinct. Instead, it challenges particular claims of institutional racism. As I see it, way too many people cry "Institutional Racism!" before all other possibilities have been ruled out. That's true David and sometimes some people cry institutional racism without even understanding what it is...Sometimes they confuse it with individual racism,sometimes they confuse it with structural racism, and sometimes they use it as a way to work the system....Understanding it, learning how to recognize it, standing up to it when it happens, these are the only effective ways to control it.... It has been said that if the only tool in your tool box is a hammer, then all of your problems will look like nails to you. I suspect that some people cry "Racism!" because they don't know how to cope with problems that don't involve racism. Again, I don't mind someone crying "Racism!" if that person demonstrates that he/she has eliminated all other possibilities. and if there is indeed more than one possibility,, why do you insist RACISM must be the final one,,,as opposed to somewhere else in the list , based upon its reasonableness for instance, with sexism(another ism) If my boss has a habit of smacking the pretty females on the behind he COULD just have a rare culture where this is how females are greeted or those particular females COULD be sending him signals they enjoy that type of flirtations or he COULD be sexist ,,now tell me, if he IS sexist, why must someone observing it avoid that reason just because there could be others on the list? Because some idiot decided that a woman slapping a mans face for improper advances was assault instead of an expression of digust or intolerance..... which is the basis for the entire argument.... the lack of personal freedom of expression..... due to regulation! |
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. . .BUT minority controlled institutions practice institutional racism too, it just happens on a much smaller scale and, for obvious reasons, it is always referred to as institutional discrimination�A good example would be a minority-run local government�
^^^ What she said. By the way, it seems to me that a bit of a straw-man argument has been made. The OP doesn't say that institutional racism is extinct. Instead, it challenges particular claims of institutional racism. As I see it, way too many people cry "Institutional Racism!" before all other possibilities have been ruled out. That's true David and sometimes some people cry institutional racism without even understanding what it is...Sometimes they confuse it with individual racism,sometimes they confuse it with structural racism, and sometimes they use it as a way to work the system....Understanding it, learning how to recognize it, standing up to it when it happens, these are the only effective ways to control it.... It has been said that if the only tool in your tool box is a hammer, then all of your problems will look like nails to you. I suspect that some people cry "Racism!" because they don't know how to cope with problems that don't involve racism. Again, I don't mind someone crying "Racism!" if that person demonstrates that he/she has eliminated all other possibilities. and if there is indeed more than one possibility,, why do you insist RACISM must be the final one,,,as opposed to somewhere else in the list , based upon its reasonableness for instance, with sexism(another ism) If my boss has a habit of smacking the pretty females on the behind he COULD just have a rare culture where this is how females are greeted or those particular females COULD be sending him signals they enjoy that type of flirtations or he COULD be sexist ,,now tell me, if he IS sexist, why must someone observing it avoid that reason just because there could be others on the list? I didn't read what David said the same way you did...That could be analyzed, rationalized, and debated too, but why bother?...What purpose would it serve?...My understanding of his post is two fold...One, he is acknowledging the fact that institutional racism does exist and two, he is saying because of the subtleness of the action(s) involved and the seriousness of an accusation, one must use extreme caution in making sure they are right before pointing a finger...Your comparison or analogy is not good Harmony...All three examples you give would equal sexual harassment (sexism) in a court of law BECAUSE the action is from a supervisory employee to non-supervisory employee...Reasons for crossing the line in the example you give have no bearing on accountability...Your post just reinforces my belief that you do not fully understand institutional racism and its "root" cause.... |
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Edited by
msharmony
on
Mon 09/09/13 08:17 AM
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. . .BUT minority controlled institutions practice institutional racism too, it just happens on a much smaller scale and, for obvious reasons, it is always referred to as institutional discrimination�A good example would be a minority-run local government�
^^^ What she said. By the way, it seems to me that a bit of a straw-man argument has been made. The OP doesn't say that institutional racism is extinct. Instead, it challenges particular claims of institutional racism. As I see it, way too many people cry "Institutional Racism!" before all other possibilities have been ruled out. That's true David and sometimes some people cry institutional racism without even understanding what it is...Sometimes they confuse it with individual racism,sometimes they confuse it with structural racism, and sometimes they use it as a way to work the system....Understanding it, learning how to recognize it, standing up to it when it happens, these are the only effective ways to control it.... It has been said that if the only tool in your tool box is a hammer, then all of your problems will look like nails to you. I suspect that some people cry "Racism!" because they don't know how to cope with problems that don't involve racism. Again, I don't mind someone crying "Racism!" if that person demonstrates that he/she has eliminated all other possibilities. and if there is indeed more than one possibility,, why do you insist RACISM must be the final one,,,as opposed to somewhere else in the list , based upon its reasonableness for instance, with sexism(another ism) If my boss has a habit of smacking the pretty females on the behind he COULD just have a rare culture where this is how females are greeted or those particular females COULD be sending him signals they enjoy that type of flirtations or he COULD be sexist ,,now tell me, if he IS sexist, why must someone observing it avoid that reason just because there could be others on the list? I didn't read what David said the same way you did...That could be analyzed, rationalized, and debated too, but why bother?...What purpose would it serve?...My understanding of his post is two fold...One, he is acknowledging the fact that institutional racism does exist and two, he is saying because of the subtleness of the action(s) involved and the seriousness of an accusation, one must use extreme caution in making sure they are right before pointing a finger...Your comparison or analogy is not good Harmony...All three examples you give would equal sexual harassment (sexism) in a court of law BECAUSE the action is from a supervisory employee to non-supervisory employee...Reasons for crossing the line in the example you give have no bearing on accountability...Your post just reinforces my belief that you do not fully understand institutional racism and its "root" cause.... I read the point fine, that others want to decide which 'reasons' take priority over other reasons if there is any other possible reason, the observer/participant must DISPROVE all other reasons before concluding there is racism or institutional racism my analogy reflects the egocentric nature of such a demand, considering someone can always come up with other potential reasons behind an action,, suggesting that not being able to DISPROVE any other reason must be the prerequisite to determining there is institutional racism involved seems like a polite, politically correct way, to tell people to avoid the elephant in the room at all possible costs,,,,,which isn't going to happen as far as my analoygy, it will only be harassment if someone feels HARASSED, which again will be subjective to the person filing/or not filing,, Harassment charges in a court so the analogy still stands,,,, I think I am maybe the only one in this conversation who has a clue what institutional racism is due to the fact of how many tangents and mis paraphrases others are going off into from the two basic points I made ONE: collectivist societies tend to have LESS OF A CORRELATION Between crime and poverty than Individualistic CULTURES do TWO: Institutional racism (racism at an institutional level, NOT racism within a business institution,,,,lol) are the result of prolonged bigotry and oppression within a culture that leaves certain oppressed group in an extended place at the BOTTOM of the societal rung and , ps, where in America do we have a 'minority run local government' that practices racism against non minorities on an institutional level? |
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ACORN discriminates.
But dats otay! |
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