OH YOU ARE SO WRONG! The Military and the Cops are supposed to be AMERICANS TOO. Roll over and accept tyranny? Move to England! There was a survey recently in the Marines where they were asked if they were ordered to go door to door and take our weapons would they, their answers were refreshing! Mostly noes, A lot of 'go fucq yourself commander,' most of them said they enlisted to defend the constitution, and a few even said that if given that order they would present an answer their command would not appreciate.

And frankly I don't trust you to not kill me driving a car! What makes you feel you are such a good driver? Were you trained to drive? I was. I know life past 150 mph. But I bet you are not dangerous at any speed behind the wheel. OHHHH I love to assume in the face of assumption! So how are we with this argument now?

You remind me a lot of the Vichy French! "Oh Germany is marching on us? WE SURRENDER! PLEASE DON'T SHOOT ME! I AM IMPORTANT!"

And again you use Children as a shield for your argument.

PISHAW!

the "War" in Afghanistan lasted for 10 years....drop nukes it wouldn't have lasted 10 seconds



nope... sorry...

#1...I said that law enforcement officers where there to help protect society from itself...that's not an assumption..considering that is what they were hired to do

#2..and I stated that gun laws are there to help protect society and you from your gun ...

#3..guns are obsolete...don't you think that it's time that you upgraded to nukes? ..especially if you want to take on the government

imagine trying to fight a government that has nukes with guns

hey AndyBgood....I think God knows how you feel..perhaps that's why he used his powers to drown everyone in the great flood and plan on tossing the rest into a lake of fire to burn for all eternity

I guess thats what happens when there are no restrictions

I think a lake of fire would be FAR more preferable to the void of space! At least you wouldn't FREEZE solid in a lake of fire. Not to mention just being somewhere that is basically oblivion. An eternity of NOTHING! That would be worst than a lake of fire.

If a lake of fire is all God has to threaten me with god isn't too smart!

This has been discussed before. Our own government knows better. First of all the assassination attempts on our leadership would never end. To use a nuke on our own is completely inconceivable. Not from the stand point of "It could never happen" to the fact that anyone with the BALLS to do that to their own country would be damned in a way they would have to face their own demise on a daily basis. There would not be a world power outside of the US that would hesitate to see the threat for what it was. Can you say, "MORE INCOMING?"

You need people alive to scare them. They are not scared dead. Likewise who else are you going to use to build and empire?

America was supposed to be based on Ideals career politicians get wrong and mealy mouthed liberals take for granted. Gun control is more about THEIR personal safety vs. OUR personal safety! Just becasue they think I would be safer does not mean I share their belief. And trusting our leadership 100%? Well, Monsanto so far has not put wings on pigs yet!

of course if he was smart..he probably just take away your powers ...

yes it would...considering that all the assassins would most likely been nuked



see ...you do trust the government



you can use Mexico...they would be happy to come and help...and it would end the immigration problem



yep..those no good liberals for not wanting to get shot like the rest of the people



some would be foolish to trust their spouse 100 percent ...

Just saying, power and trust do not mix!

In the near future, would everyone agree that a vector shield should be sold with a gun if they were widely available and easily affordable?

Perhaps a mandatory certificate that says you're capable of surgically removing bullets from people?


The gun advocates are conceptualizing this issue no better than they did hundreds of years ago when there were hand cannons, or hundreds of thousands of years ago with stone axes. The world population was.... five million?



Forget the nukes--those are obsolete. One little missle developed by Boeing could knock out all things electrical. Then, watch everyone spend their ammo shooting each other up.

so,you think Government would use Nukes in a Civil War?
Kind of cutting off their Noses to spite their Faces,wouldn't it?

no one forces you to own a Firearm,so do not think you could force anyone from abstaining to own a Firearm!
Do not think you can forcibly remove a Right from the People!
Rights are not conditional on the Whim of any Majority or Minority!

power should come with wisdom not trust

I'm saying why would the government care what type of guns you have especially if they have nukes ...which is why claiming that you need a gun to fight a tyrannical government can no longer be used

that's why Obama is trying to place in gun restrictions..in order to save you from yourself

We will get back to the nuke and law enforcement arguments.

Right now I would like to focus on the assumption that gun control has a direct correlation to gun violence...

"Drivinmenutz"...that would be a useless argument ....because it's obvious that before there were guns..there were no gun violence ....

and it's obvious that if you take away all the guns there would be no gun violence

but since the 2nd amendment gives the citizens the right to bear arms and commit gun violence... therefore you have to place in laws and restrictions the same that you would do with anything else that presents a clear and present danger to society and it's citizens

one such restriction is that children are not allowed to bring guns to school....

now all you have to do is say that you don't believe that such a law have any direct effect on curbing gun violence

please say you don't believe...please

Convenient that you forget people used to carry swords instead all the way into the late 1800s. Just becasue there was no such thing as "gun violence" before there were guns does not discount the fact violence occurs with or without guns. And when do you think the first guns were used? Think Ancient China. Strange they had gunpowder but it was Europeans who really ran with the Idea followed by the Ottomans! Now cannon predate Guns. How about cannon based mischief?

I agree there are places guns do not belong. Any REASONABLE OR SANE person understands this. But to have a concealed carry permit trumps that standard. One must be trained and they don't have to tell anyone they are carrying. A responsible individual does not wave a gun around like it were a four to eight inch extension of their penis (if not a penis substitute)!

Now about the law. We have 2200 laws and just have to add more. How many more restrictions will we place before we restrict ownership completely? Where is the line drawn?

I have to say unless we can change the human heart from the top down all the laws in the world and beyond will mean nothing. And as things are we seem to operate by a hypocritical double standard.

It is so easy to blame a tool, not the wielder.

well he asked about gun violence not sword violence...but then again how many people do you see walking down the street today with swords?...probably due to sword restriction or public safety laws



oh oh...sounds like you want to impose gun restrictions



what???? you mean that you think that gun owners should be trained to carry concealed weapon?....AndyBgood...are you becoming a convert?



perhaps when kids stop getting access to their parent's guns and accidently shooting themselves or someone else



wow...that you can't change the human heart is the best ammunition (no pun intended) for gun control I've heard in a long time...



it's probably reasonable to assume that gun laws are not made because guns walk around on their own and shoot person

K,

I have always believed in training. I have received training in weapon handling as well. I know a bullet can kill innocent people if I do not use good judgement and prudence especially trying to maintain in a bad situation. Just becasue you can put a shot into somebody does not mean you will not hit someone directly behind them. Even hunting there have been times I had that perfect shot except for a effing house or barn behind the damn deer or a effing herd of sheep or some damn crap. Knowing when NOT to shoot is just as important as knowing HOW to shoot.

Schools, courthouses, BARS, social events like concerts, guns are wholly not necessary. These locations should have their own armed security just the same but with that aside if you posses a legitimate and up to date carry concealed card you can carry anywhere you want including these locations. There is an assumption that the person carrying under such a permit has again been trained and likewise taught the legalities of carrying a weapon as well as common sense like YOU DO NOT BRAG YOU GOT A DAMN GUN!

Now as far as kids getting their hands on guns, outside of illegal sources IF A PARENT IS THAT IRRESPONSIBLE THEY NEED TO GO TO CLASS FOR A WAKE UP CALL IN HOW TO KEEP YOUR KIDS FROM GETTING TO THEM! If I found out it was one of my kids bringing a gun to school, better have an outstanding reason to prevent me from applying the pimp hand liberally! If it was not out of a real fear of something for real ie. showboating I actually do condone a good stiff beating applied to that child! Please do not feed me the Dr. Spock crap. First of all taking a gun of mine without permission? I would be thankful for not having a sinal hemorrhage for an act of such utter stupidity in my location! Now if my kid were indeed afraid someone or a group of someone's were outside of school and actually showing a credible threat to my kid, well, that school is about to meet a bunch of attorneys for one! Then the police get a total ear full. And dad then regulates that threat if the cops act like they can't. Carried by six or judged by 12? I would resent having to carry my child in a casket becasue I trusted the police to pretend they can protect us from anything. If they were able to end the threat though? Cheers to the cops for a change! But if I was a responsible parent and taught my children right I would not have to worry about that, should I? Why should I teach my children to live in fear of anything? Ya know, I know parents who own several long and short arms and they are kept in safes and have gun locks on them. I have even installed a safe or two. But all of them make their kids handle the guns, they go shooting together, and the kids know the realities of what a gun is and what it is for! So you make it sound like ALL CHILDREN GO OUT OF THEIR WAY TO PISS OF THEIR PARENTS AND SHOW OFF TO THEIR FRIENDS! Dare I say how fallacious that statement really is?

Now if we were living in Bear country, Alaska, my kids would not be allowed out doors without an armed escort. Over 12 they get to carry a gun! But not to school UNLESS FOR SOME UNGODLY REASON THEY HAVE TO GO ALONE! But I would want them to check it in at school and check it out when they come home. Why? Bears like to eat us! Ask an Alaskan sometime about how cuddly the bears there are! There are places you do not go outdoors unarmed PERIOD!

Now saying I have cited an argument for gun control. Nice try... I am more for PHARMACEUTICAL CONTROL! I am for NOT FOR PROFIT INSURANCE AND MEDICINE! I also feel people do have a responsibility to learn to defend themselves and learn gun safety even if they chose not to own one! I believe education can help a lot. But you always have that one Homer Simpson out there screwing everything up. Those are the kinds of shyteheads you have to put a gun to their head and disarm for everyone else's safety when they discover they can turn a TV on and off with it! Frankly they are dangerous behind the wheels of cars, operating heavy machinery, and even trying to open a bag of potato chips!

But here is a dilemma we all have to live with. Our rights are not revokable until we infringe upon the health and safety of others. With that in mind what has been done for the purveyors of dangerous untested drugs dumped into the main stream only to discover the list of bad effects later? What of those entrusted with the public safety and trust who violate that from police officers to politicians?

Now with all this in mind, I AM A GUN OWNER. I do not go everywhere with one. There are times I will carry. I never go into the wilds alone and unarmed at all! I have told a park ranger before I would be dead before I would be disarmed and meant it. Likewise if the need came up and I was facing intrusion you better believe I am going to kill someone, gun, knife or otherwise! I can't shoot them in the back. They never said anything about stabbing them in the back though! If some jerk was bumping his gums with a gun in his hand in the street about how he is going to 1-8-7 me I more than likely would smoke that fucq rather than wait for the police to arrive after the shooting started. If someone brandished a gun on me on the freeway I would drive them into a major pile up or into a pole. My truck can be a weapon too.

Now KNIFE OR SWORD! I have beaten a cop up with the law before becasue of an incident where I was carrying a machete slung on my back riding my bike. I was clearing some savage brush from a back yard. I also had no car so to get to the job I had to ride my bike. That day all I had to do was clear the big weeds. A real no brainer. Use a big blade, chop them down. Pile them up for bagging the next day. Go home. But on the way home. I got pulled over. Then the argument began, sword or knife. Oh, and that whole "Keep your hands on my car," crap. Now here we go, A Gladiolus is a sword and classically the blade length is shorter than 18 inches. It is double edged. A Machete is 20 inches long and has a single edge. It is also considered a GARDEN IMPLEMENT! Said police officer got to see me wave buy buy to him with a 20 inch long blade strapped to my back! So really in all legality I can openly carry a machete. But it is ungainly. Not bad for a knife. Crocodile Dundee would whip out his blade and say, "This is a knife," and I would take out two blades. One short one and a machete. I would likewise say, "The paint brush does not make the artist but when size counts," I would hold up the Machete and say, "Mate, if you measure a man by the size of his knife this is a REAL knife!" And let him appreciate the simple clean lines of a sharpened piece of steel three times bigger than his. But the whole thing is I would prefer to have the smaller blade. Opening envelopes is so much easier with a knife than a key for one! And those stubborn bags of what ever that threaten to shower you in whatever they hold from bursting? NOW FOR CONCEALED CARRY KNIFE LAWS. Here in California the blade has to be under 4 inches. My personal favorite to fight with was two inches long. But with this aside the takes of the wild west were all BULLSHYTE! Only two places were lawless territories for a brief period of time, The New Mexico and Arizona territories! Even then there were rules of conduct in most towns. For instance if we were living in the late 1800s back in that day when I came riding into town I had to check in with the Sheriff's or Marshall's office and check in my iron. I would state my business and would receive a brass 'check in tag' to get my weapons back when I leave. Most of the times cowboys were met as they came into town by the Sheriff and he would make them check in their iron! It was that or spend the night out doors!

Don't take this wrong but I am not about to stand there and let some gorilla twice my size man handle me. I would just assume shoot the bastard if I want to get it over quick. Otherwise I will find another equalizer and saw down a giant. Knife, pipe, rock, spitting in the man's eye before driving my fingers into his face holes and grabbing him like a bowling ball and driving him into oblivion by aiming every punch into the same spot in the side of his head until he is limp and cold, I don't care. I have learned to come in peace and to try and be respectful of others. But I am prepared to make war if I have to. There are BAD people out there who don't care about rules. They don't give a FUCQ about anyone other than themselves. And some of them just want to destroy everything around them. You cannot negotiate with them. If they get the advantage on you they will take it! And a gun is only a means to an end. It is one of the few things that makes all men equal in the end.

There are friends of mine who are trained fighters. I would LOATH to have to fight them bare handed for real. Screwing around play sparring where we are not tossing the real blows at each other is one thing. I am talking men who hit like tanks and have a pain threshold that exceeds mine. I just can shut my pain off (but I pay for that later!) but these are guys who just cannot feel pain normally. If I had to face them knowing I was going to get into it with them I would be doing so from behind a gun and a blade. I am not going to walk into my death. There is no place for Honor in a life or death situation.

People are less likely to act on someone when they know that they will not only get rat packed but likewise they are a lot less likely to act when they know there is a chance they screw with someone half their size they may get killed. Don't think every little person can be a Bruce Lee. He damn near trained from birth and Martial Arts is a calling not a lot of people can answer to. I feel better knowing my mom carries a gun for her protection! My mom is actually a lot saner than I am. But just becasue I am a black sheep doesn't mean I personally am going to just arbitrarily go walking down the street with a gun to make me feel safer. A gun does not make me feel like a bigger or better man. It is a survival tool! In a sane society in armed person would not raise any concern. A person waving a weapon around or in hand though would raise concern. And in a sane world people would politely ask that person what their trip was. If they decided to get weird the police can come clean up after the festivities! If it was just some poor bastard having a bad day then maybe he can be talked down and everyone can breath easier!

In OLD Japan (Pre Meji Era) just becasue you walked upon a Samurai did not mean he was going to just pull a sword and hack into you. There were codes of behavior with a weapon. Now Bandits on the other hand here not hesitant. But if you were unarmed and bandits were robbing you and a Samurai happened by, chances were he would help. They were honor bound to in most cases except for Ronin without land or masters. Even then when they were not traveling in their towns they were barely armed.

Now back to the heart of man. take my gun so they can take up a pipe and use a strength and size advantage on me? please my friend, what backwards world do you live in?

It is tools that make men equal. And Samuel Colt's tool worked real good at that!

Dr Susan Gratia-Hupp - Survivor of the 1991 Kileen TX Lubys Shooting Massacre

Interesting testimony and strong arguments regarding the 2nd Amendment

http://youtu.be/6sEYGcXSmpQ