Well AB, I care about being able to confidently assess another's honesty. I interact with folk on a daily basis, and I find that that alone constitutes sufficient reason to care. Not to mention that we live in a society, which depends upon being able to trust others. Which, in turn, once again constitutes sufficient reason to care about whether or not others are being honest.

Can you support those claims?

Not as stated because it does not adequately explain the context of our discussion at the time. That is pivotal. Please pay very close attention to the following explanation of the above answer, because it's crucial to understanding what I'm saying. I do not think that you understood my position the first time around, which I'll gladly take responsibility for. I'll attempt to make it as clear as possible this time...

I said that an honest answer of "no" would depend upon a nonsensical interpretation. If you wish to call that "my interpretation" that's ok because it is irrelevant to the point being made. While I proposed that interpretation, I was doing so in an attempt to show you that a nonsensical interpretation logically followed from your claims at that time. The first answer you gave was that Joe was "most certainly lying" which struck me as quite odd. Your supporting argument culminated in claiming that Joe's honest answer should be "no, of course not". Below is the original claim along with the subsequent argument(reasoning) you gave to support your judgment/conclusion. I've combined them in the same quote box for clarity purposes and ease of the explanation that follows.



You claimed that Joe was most certainly lying because if you take the question literally, he knew that Jill was also in the room as he responded to her question. Then you went on to say that Joe assumed that Jill meant anyone besides herself and Joe. So, at that point I was left wondering, for obvious reasons I hope, why you would claim on the one hand that Joe assumed that Jill meant anyone besides herself and Joe, but on the other you would claim that Joe was most certainly lying because the question had been taken literally and he knew that Jill was in the room as he responded to her question. So, seeing how those two interpretation are incompatible with one another, we must take both of those into consideration independently. I'll look at the former first...

If Joe assumed that Jill meant anyone besides herself and Joe, then his honest answer would have been "yes", because that would have been what he thought that she was asking for, and his answer would have captured that. It also follows that, based upon such an interpretation, "no" could not have possibly been an honest answer to the question. However, much to your credit, you have since clarified that particular explanation of Joe's assumption served only as your explanation of what I was assuming that Joe's interpretation was. That is an astute assessment. Indeed I was assuming that Joe was interpreting the statement as most folk do in everyday discourse.

Now, regarding the latter, it has been made clear by you that the original answer you gave that "Joe was most certainly lying" is based upon the notion that the question had been taken literally by Joe and that that interpretation included that he knew that Jill was in the room as he responded to her question. It is then clearly stated that Joe's honest answer should be "no, of course not" which, in turn, clearly implies that his honest answer should be based upon a literal interpretation because that particular answer does not serve as an honest one based upon the former interpretation.

So, if we apply the proposed criterion to what you've set out as a literal interpretation, then it follows that in order for "no, of course not" to serve as an honest answer to the question Joe must believe that Jill is asking him to count her and as a result gives an answer that he believes captures that. The point here being that that is to say that when Jill asks Joe if he is the only one there that Joe interprets the question to mean "Are you the only one here, or am I here too?"

Now, during normal everday discussion, most folk do not ask such a question expecting for the listener to count the questioner, because the questioner already knows that much, and as such it would be pointless to ask such a question. However, because the possibility certainly exists, I pursued a clarification of what the question meant, as Jill posed it to Joe, and you subsequently acknowledged that that is what the question meant, as it was posed.

Are we in agreement here?

Don't be a putz Pan.

I'm not, I'm being creative...

There are relevant considerations at hand.

Your "literal" definition of "Are you alone?" is of relevance.


"Are you the only one here, or am I here too?"
That is just plain silly and nonsensical as I've already stated...


Here is your nonsensical "interpretation" broken down.
"Are you alone, or am I here too?"

Are you asking for an answer to one question or the other, both separately or both together? This is why you need to express yourself more clearly, because this makes you look bad.

As stated, it is 2 separate questions that Joe could choose either one to answer.
Are you alone? = No. (Jill is with him)
or
Am I here too? = Yes. (Jill is with him)
(do you see how silly that looks?)


Here is my interpretation:

Definition of BE (ARE)
intransitive verb
d : to have a specified qualification or characterization <the leaves are green>

Definition of YOU
1: the one or ones being addressed

Definition of ALONE
1: separated from others : isolated

So Jill was literally asking Joe if he was isolated from others.



Do you agree with my interpretation or do you still hold that yours is correct?

Joe is in one room of a house. Jill comes in and asks Joe if he's the only one there. Unbeknownst to Joe, Mary is in the other room. Joe answers "yes". Is Joe lying?






The above claims rest upon a couple of very dubious presuppositions.


1. In order for it to be true that "Joe was most certainly lying", then Joe would have to believe that Jill was asking him to count her when she asked him if he was the only one there. In fact, we would have to know that Joe believed that in order to be certain.

2. Saying that "an answer of 'no, of course not' should be Joe's honest answer" is to say that Joe should believe that Jill was asking him to count her when she asked him if he was the only one there.

You're being evasive again.

What is your literal interpretation of "Are you alone?" ???

Doesn't matter what mine is. I'm using yours.

Don't be a creative...

What more could you ask for Pan? I'm using your definition. Deal with it. Look at where your argument leads...

--

Joe is in one room of a house. Jill comes in and asks Joe if he's the only one there. Unbeknownst to Joe, Mary is in the other room. Joe answers "yes". Is Joe lying?






The above claims rest upon a couple of very dubious presuppositions.


1. In order for it to be true that "Joe was most certainly lying", then Joe would have to believe that Jill was asking him to count her when she asked him if he was the only one there. In fact, we would have to know that Joe believed that in order to be certain.

2. Saying that "an answer of 'no, of course not' should be Joe's honest answer" is to say that Joe should believe that Jill was asking him to count her when she asked him if he was the only one there.

How do you respond?

With laughter...

Stop assigning your nonsense to the literal meaning and state what the phrase means.


I do NOT care what Joe believes or you for that matter. I want to know if you understand basic language skills.

You have consistently shown that you do not...


Whassa matter? Iddle widdle creative waytive skeered?

Joe is in one room of a house. Jill comes in and asks Joe if he's the only one there. Unbeknownst to Joe, Mary is in the other room. Joe answers "yes". Is Joe lying?






The above claims rest upon a couple of very dubious presuppositions.


1. In order for it to be true that "Joe was most certainly lying", then Joe would have to believe that Jill was asking him to count her when she asked him if he was the only one there. In fact, we would have to know that Joe believed that in order to be certain.

2. Saying that "an answer of 'no, of course not' should be Joe's honest answer" is to say that Joe should believe that Jill was asking him to count her when she asked him if he was the only one there.

Avoidance does not bode well for you.

Do you know what the literal interpretation is or not?

If you only knew...

I do know:


Your "literal" definition of "Are you alone?" is of relevance.


"Are you the only one here, or am I here too?"
Your interpretation is just plain silly and nonsensical as I've already stated...


Here is your nonsensical "interpretation" broken down.
"Are you alone, or am I here too?"

Are you asking for an answer to one question or the other, both separately or both together? This is why you need to express yourself more clearly, because this makes you look bad.

As stated, it is 2 separate questions that Joe could choose either one to answer.
Are you alone? = No. (Jill is with him)
or
Am I here too? = Yes. (Jill is with him)
(do you see how silly that looks?)


I know, skeered...

Joe is in one room of a house. Jill comes in and asks Joe if he's the only one there. Unbeknownst to Joe, Mary is in the other room. Joe answers "yes". Is Joe lying?






The above claims rest upon a couple of very dubious presuppositions.


1. In order for it to be true that "Joe was most certainly lying", then Joe would have to believe that Jill was asking him to count her when she asked him if he was the only one there. In fact, we would have to know that Joe believed that in order to be certain.

2. Saying that "an answer of 'no, of course not' should be Joe's honest answer" is to say that Joe should believe that Jill was asking him to count her when she asked him if he was the only one there.

You're avoidance is just evidence that you do not know the meaning of literal.

And your redundant posts are indicators of your lack of an intelligent rebuttal.


Shall I pull out my predictions of your refusal to answer a direct question?

What's the literal definition of "Are you alone?" ???