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| Topic: Another School Shooting | |
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Edited by
Bushidobillyclub
on
Fri 03/02/12 02:36 PM
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These shootings are so sad to hear about. I am glad we have very few here but we aren't allowed to carry guns so I suspect that curbs it somewhat. Unintended consequences. Gottlieb cites an article by Canada's National Post columnist David Frum where he revealed that "Canada's overall crime rate is now 50 percent higher than the crime rate in the United States.” Moreover, "Since the early 1990s, crime rates have dropped in 48 of the 50 states and 80 percent of American cities. Over that same period, crime rates have risen in six of the 10 Canadian provinces and in seven of Canada’s 10 biggest cities.” He also cites the most recent complete data available from both countries that shows that in 2003, the violent crime rate in the United States was 475 per 100,000 people; while up north, there were 963 violent crimes per 100,000 people. The figure for sexual assault in Canada per 100,000 people was more than double that of the United States: 74 as opposed to 32.1; and the assault rate in Canada was also more than twice that of the states: 746 to America's 295 for the people. Moreover, he cites research that showed the figure for sexual assault in Canada per 100,000 people was more than double that of the United States: 74 as opposed to 32.1; and the assault rate in Canada was more than twice that of the United States: 746 to America’s 295. Also, in 2005, Toronto had 78 murders; that’s a 28 percent increase in homicides since 1995. http://www.wnd.com/2012/02/madness-after-girl-4-draws-gun-pic-at-school/ Canada's knee Jerk guns r bad response played out here. Kid draws a picture of a gun at school, family subject to search of property to make sure no one was in danger. Yea, that is not the kind of government response I want, thanks. You have a government that is ignoring the massive increase in crime, who disarms its population and then victimizes this family becuase the child drew a gun which she probably saw on TV then using her idea that her daddy protected her family assumed he had a gun. You know what is interesting about kids, the innocence and lack of bias sometimes allows them to make rational decisions where an adult cannot. This little girl clearly saw her daddy as the protector of the house, and without knowing whether he had a gun or not assumed he did becuase otherwise he couldn't go his job as that protector. Too bad the law makers in that country do not have the thinking skills of that little girl. msharmony, I scrolled back through every post I did not see any links from you describing your stance on what constitutes common sense gun regulation. |
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Edited by
navygirl
on
Fri 03/02/12 02:47 PM
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These shootings are so sad to hear about. I am glad we have very few here but we aren't allowed to carry guns so I suspect that curbs it somewhat. Unintended consequences. Gottlieb cites an article by Canada's National Post columnist David Frum where he revealed that "Canada's overall crime rate is now 50 percent higher than the crime rate in the United States.” Moreover, "Since the early 1990s, crime rates have dropped in 48 of the 50 states and 80 percent of American cities. Over that same period, crime rates have risen in six of the 10 Canadian provinces and in seven of Canada’s 10 biggest cities.” He also cites the most recent complete data available from both countries that shows that in 2003, the violent crime rate in the United States was 475 per 100,000 people; while up north, there were 963 violent crimes per 100,000 people. The figure for sexual assault in Canada per 100,000 people was more than double that of the United States: 74 as opposed to 32.1; and the assault rate in Canada was also more than twice that of the states: 746 to America's 295 for the people. Moreover, he cites research that showed the figure for sexual assault in Canada per 100,000 people was more than double that of the United States: 74 as opposed to 32.1; and the assault rate in Canada was more than twice that of the United States: 746 to America’s 295. Also, in 2005, Toronto had 78 murders; that’s a 28 percent increase in homicides since 1995. http://www.wnd.com/2012/02/madness-after-girl-4-draws-gun-pic-at-school/ Canada's knee Jerk guns r bad response played out here. Kid draws a picture of a gun at school, family subject to search of property to make sure no one was in danger. Yea, that is not the kind of government response I want, thanks. You have a government that is ignoring the massive increase in crime, who disarms its population and then victimizes this family becuase the child drew a gun which she probably saw on TV then using her idea that her daddy protected her family assumed he had a gun. You know what is interesting about kids, the innocence and lack of bias sometimes allows them to make rational decisions where an adult cannot. This little girl clearly saw her daddy as the protector of the house, and without knowing whether he had a gun or not assumed he did becuase otherwise he couldn't go his job as that protector. Too bad the law makers in that country do not have the thinking skills of that little girl. Approximately 70 percent of the total murders in the U.S. are committed with firearms, versus about 30 percent in Canada. I don't make the laws; I just abide by them. I would never keep a gun in my house or on me eventhough I am certified and comfortable with weapons. I have a better chance of being killed in a car accident than of being shot. |
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Edited by
Bushidobillyclub
on
Fri 03/02/12 02:50 PM
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I don't make the laws; I just abide by them. I would never keep a gun in my house or on me. I have a better chance of being killed in an accident than of being shot. JMO Do you look both ways before crossing the street, I mean statistically you are unlikely to get hit. Do you think to yourself when its lighting outside, hey maybe I better stay inside? Maybe I better stop cleaning the pool? Do you lock your doors? Smoke detectors? Do you use poisonous cleaning products? Why? Getting ecoli in a deathly concentration is unlikely to happen. Do you do any one of a million things that remove the tiny chances of a bad thing happening, or making it so if it does happen you are prepared? The honest answer to this is of course! We all do, its just that guns are scary, and people avoid what they are uncomfortable around and they fear. It takes nerve to overcome fear. It takes capability to tame a dangerous thing. When I was 15 I was scared of driving on narrow roads at speeds over 45 mph becuase I was not certain of my own skill. More people die of car accidents than all other dangerous activities combined, but no one thinks to themselves . . . hey I am going to stop driving, or hey we should ban this dangerous tool. Its irrational. The only reason not to be armed is if you do not trust yourself emotionally to handle that responsibility, its my opinion if this is true you shouldn't drive either. |
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Edited by
navygirl
on
Fri 03/02/12 02:58 PM
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I don't make the laws; I just abide by them. I would never keep a gun in my house or on me. I have a better chance of being killed in an accident than of being shot. JMO Do you look both ways before crossing the street, I mean statistically you are unlikely to get hit. Do you think to yourself when its lighting outside, hey maybe I better stay inside? Maybe I better stop cleaning the pool? Do you lock your doors? Do you do anyone of a million things that remove the tiny chances of a bad thing happening, or making it so if it does happen you are prepared? The honest answer to this is of course! We all do, its just that guns are scary, and people avoid what they are uncomfortable around and they fear. When I was 15 I was scared of driving on narrow roads at speeds over 45 mph becuase I was not certain of my own skill. More people die of car accidents than all other dangerous activities combined, but no one thinks to themselves . . . hey I am going to stop driving. Its irrational. The only reason not to be armed is if you do not trust yourself emotionally to handle that responsibility, its my opinion if this is true you shouldn't drive either. I just said I was trained and feel comfortable with weapons but doesn't mean I need to have one on my person. I would feel comfortable driving a tank but doesn't mean I am going to get one. Its called overkill. Incidentially; I was military police and spent 20 years in the military. I think I am quite emotionally sound to handle a weapon. You don't have the right to judge my status just because I don't want to tote a gun. |
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I don't make the laws; I just abide by them. I would never keep a gun in my house or on me. I have a better chance of being killed in an accident than of being shot. JMO Do you look both ways before crossing the street, I mean statistically you are unlikely to get hit. Do you think to yourself when its lighting outside, hey maybe I better stay inside? Maybe I better stop cleaning the pool? Do you lock your doors? Do you do anyone of a million things that remove the tiny chances of a bad thing happening, or making it so if it does happen you are prepared? The honest answer to this is of course! We all do, its just that guns are scary, and people avoid what they are uncomfortable around and they fear. When I was 15 I was scared of driving on narrow roads at speeds over 45 mph becuase I was not certain of my own skill. More people die of car accidents than all other dangerous activities combined, but no one thinks to themselves . . . hey I am going to stop driving. Its irrational. The only reason not to be armed is if you do not trust yourself emotionally to handle that responsibility, its my opinion if this is true you shouldn't drive either. I just said I was trained and feel comfortable with weapons but doesn't mean I need to have one on my person. I would feel comfortable driving a tank but doesn't mean I am going to get one. Its called overkill. Incidentially; I was military police and spent 20 years in the military. I think I am quite emotionally sound to handle a weapon. I would call it battlefield supremacy.. |
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I don't make the laws; I just abide by them. I would never keep a gun in my house or on me. I have a better chance of being killed in an accident than of being shot. JMO Do you look both ways before crossing the street, I mean statistically you are unlikely to get hit. Do you think to yourself when its lighting outside, hey maybe I better stay inside? Maybe I better stop cleaning the pool? Do you lock your doors? Do you do anyone of a million things that remove the tiny chances of a bad thing happening, or making it so if it does happen you are prepared? The honest answer to this is of course! We all do, its just that guns are scary, and people avoid what they are uncomfortable around and they fear. When I was 15 I was scared of driving on narrow roads at speeds over 45 mph becuase I was not certain of my own skill. More people die of car accidents than all other dangerous activities combined, but no one thinks to themselves . . . hey I am going to stop driving. Its irrational. The only reason not to be armed is if you do not trust yourself emotionally to handle that responsibility, its my opinion if this is true you shouldn't drive either. I just said I was trained and feel comfortable with weapons but doesn't mean I need to have one on my person. I would feel comfortable driving a tank but doesn't mean I am going to get one. Its called overkill. Incidentially; I was military police and spent 20 years in the military. I think I am quite emotionally sound to handle a weapon. I would call it battlefield supremacy.. I would call it doing my job. Not rocket science. |
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I don't make the laws; I just abide by them. I would never keep a gun in my house or on me. I have a better chance of being killed in an accident than of being shot. JMO Do you look both ways before crossing the street, I mean statistically you are unlikely to get hit. Do you think to yourself when its lighting outside, hey maybe I better stay inside? Maybe I better stop cleaning the pool? Do you lock your doors? Do you do anyone of a million things that remove the tiny chances of a bad thing happening, or making it so if it does happen you are prepared? The honest answer to this is of course! We all do, its just that guns are scary, and people avoid what they are uncomfortable around and they fear. When I was 15 I was scared of driving on narrow roads at speeds over 45 mph becuase I was not certain of my own skill. More people die of car accidents than all other dangerous activities combined, but no one thinks to themselves . . . hey I am going to stop driving. Its irrational. The only reason not to be armed is if you do not trust yourself emotionally to handle that responsibility, its my opinion if this is true you shouldn't drive either. I just said I was trained and feel comfortable with weapons but doesn't mean I need to have one on my person. I would feel comfortable driving a tank but doesn't mean I am going to get one. Its called overkill. Incidentially; I was military police and spent 20 years in the military. I think I am quite emotionally sound to handle a weapon. I would call it battlefield supremacy.. I would call it doing my job. Not rocket science. you added the last part after I replied.. |
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Edited by
navygirl
on
Fri 03/02/12 03:04 PM
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I don't make the laws; I just abide by them. I would never keep a gun in my house or on me. I have a better chance of being killed in an accident than of being shot. JMO Do you look both ways before crossing the street, I mean statistically you are unlikely to get hit. Do you think to yourself when its lighting outside, hey maybe I better stay inside? Maybe I better stop cleaning the pool? Do you lock your doors? Do you do anyone of a million things that remove the tiny chances of a bad thing happening, or making it so if it does happen you are prepared? The honest answer to this is of course! We all do, its just that guns are scary, and people avoid what they are uncomfortable around and they fear. When I was 15 I was scared of driving on narrow roads at speeds over 45 mph becuase I was not certain of my own skill. More people die of car accidents than all other dangerous activities combined, but no one thinks to themselves . . . hey I am going to stop driving. Its irrational. The only reason not to be armed is if you do not trust yourself emotionally to handle that responsibility, its my opinion if this is true you shouldn't drive either. I just said I was trained and feel comfortable with weapons but doesn't mean I need to have one on my person. I would feel comfortable driving a tank but doesn't mean I am going to get one. Its called overkill. Incidentially; I was military police and spent 20 years in the military. I think I am quite emotionally sound to handle a weapon. I would call it battlefield supremacy.. I would call it doing my job. Not rocket science. you added the last part after I replied.. Oops, my bad. 
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As a fully capable emotionally stable person I could not tolerate being disarmed in a society with a crime rate that high, but then again I have seen violence first hand and have no desire to be a victim.
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As a fully capable emotionally stable person I could not tolerate being disarmed in a society with a crime rate that high, but then again I have seen violence first hand and have no desire to be a victim. I never said you weren't a caple emotionally stable person. You must do what you feels right. I just don't feel the need to arm myself. |
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I don't make the laws; I just abide by them. I would never keep a gun in my house or on me. I have a better chance of being killed in an accident than of being shot. JMO Do you look both ways before crossing the street, I mean statistically you are unlikely to get hit. Do you think to yourself when its lighting outside, hey maybe I better stay inside? Maybe I better stop cleaning the pool? Do you lock your doors? Smoke detectors? Do you use poisonous cleaning products? Why? Getting ecoli in a deathly concentration is unlikely to happen. Do you do any one of a million things that remove the tiny chances of a bad thing happening, or making it so if it does happen you are prepared? The honest answer to this is of course! We all do, its just that guns are scary, and people avoid what they are uncomfortable around and they fear. It takes nerve to overcome fear. It takes capability to tame a dangerous thing. When I was 15 I was scared of driving on narrow roads at speeds over 45 mph becuase I was not certain of my own skill. More people die of car accidents than all other dangerous activities combined, but no one thinks to themselves . . . hey I am going to stop driving, or hey we should ban this dangerous tool. Its irrational. The only reason not to be armed is if you do not trust yourself emotionally to handle that responsibility, its my opinion if this is true you shouldn't drive either. or if you trust your judgment well enough to take precautions against dangerous situations and dont feel a NEED for a gun and if you happen to use logic and think about how much those with guns have actually been SAVED by that ownership as opposed to how much those who never owned guns have never needed to be or how much those with guns have had those guns ACCIDENTALLY harm others compared to those who never owned a gun,,, the latter, OBLITERATES, the former numerically and statistically,,, so I will take my rather significantly high chances,,,,, |
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I don't make the laws; I just abide by them. I would never keep a gun in my house or on me. I have a better chance of being killed in an accident than of being shot. JMO Do you look both ways before crossing the street, I mean statistically you are unlikely to get hit. Do you think to yourself when its lighting outside, hey maybe I better stay inside? Maybe I better stop cleaning the pool? Do you lock your doors? Smoke detectors? Do you use poisonous cleaning products? Why? Getting ecoli in a deathly concentration is unlikely to happen. Do you do any one of a million things that remove the tiny chances of a bad thing happening, or making it so if it does happen you are prepared? The honest answer to this is of course! We all do, its just that guns are scary, and people avoid what they are uncomfortable around and they fear. It takes nerve to overcome fear. It takes capability to tame a dangerous thing. When I was 15 I was scared of driving on narrow roads at speeds over 45 mph becuase I was not certain of my own skill. More people die of car accidents than all other dangerous activities combined, but no one thinks to themselves . . . hey I am going to stop driving, or hey we should ban this dangerous tool. Its irrational. The only reason not to be armed is if you do not trust yourself emotionally to handle that responsibility, its my opinion if this is true you shouldn't drive either. its not JUST that guns are scary, its that BULLETS from guns can END LIVES,,,, unlike a lock on a door, or looking before crossing, or any of the other comparisons made,,, |
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These shootings are so sad to hear about. I am glad we have very few here but we aren't allowed to carry guns so I suspect that curbs it somewhat. Must be nice. Here the Libtards wanna force their anti gun BS on everyone and it only take guns away from innocent people and puts them in the criminals hands. Here, they make it difficult for anyone to get any kind of weapon. Our police have enough to deal with and don't need people going off half-cocked with weapons on them. We had some shootings with Asian gangs but even that has gone down and our general crime rate has gone down. It was put to a vote about people carrying concealed weapons but the majority of the popluation did not want it. Fact is though; criminals will always find a way to obtain guns whether our law is in place or not. thats why its crime, because criminals dont care about laws and the system tries to put away those who dont care about laws, the best way they have of identifying them is by seeing who DOESNT FOLLOW Them,....lol I mean, we could do away with any laws, if we are so concerned that the laws are not gonna stop 'criminals',,,,,lol |
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In 2009 America's crime rate was roughly the same as in 1968, with the homicide rate being at its lowest level since 1964. Overall, the national crime rate was 3466 crimes per 100,000 residents, down from 3680 crimes per 100,000 residents forty years earlier in 1969 (-9.4%).[1]
The likelihood of committing and falling victim to crime also depends on several demographic characteristics, as well as location of the population. Overall, men, minorities, the young, and those in financially less favorable positions are more likely to be crime victims, as well as commit crimes.[2] Crime in the US is also concentrated in certain areas. It is quite common for crime in American cities to be highly concentrated in a few, often economically disadvantaged areas. For example, San Mateo County, California had a population of approximately 707,000 and 17 homicides in 2001. Six of these 17 homicides took place in poor, largely Black and Hispanic East Palo Alto, which had a population of roughly 30,000. So, while East Palo Alto accounted for a mere 4.2% of the population, about one-third of the homicides took place there.[3] According to the FBI, in 2008 14,180 people were murdered in America.[4] As shown in the charts above, reported violent crime nationwide nearly quadrupled between 1960 and its peak in 1991. Property crime more than doubled over the same period. Since 1993, crime has declined steeply. Several theories have been proposed to explain the cause.
Another correlation exists between the number of people who defended a violent attach with a defensive firearm and the reduction in crime.
One hypothesis suggests a causal link between legalized abortion and the drop in crime during the 1990s.[6] Another hypothesis suggests reduced lead exposure as the cause; Scholar Mark A.R. Kleiman writes: "Given the decrease in lead exposure among children since the 1980s and the estimated effects of lead on crime, reduced lead exposure could easily explain a very large proportion—certainly more than half—of the crime decrease of the 1994-2004 period. A careful statistical study relating local changes in lead exposure to local crime rates estimates the fraction of the crime decline due to lead reduction as greater than 90 percent. [7] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_the_United_States Lots of information here, much of it very disturbing. Prison statistics
Main article: Incarceration in the United States A map of US states according to number of incarcerated individuals per population of 100,000 in 2008.[17] Compared with other countries, the United States has the highest incarceration rate in the world. As of 2006, a record 7 million people were behind bars, on probation or on parole, of which 2.2 million were incarcerated. The People's Republic of China ranks second with 1.5 million. The United States has 5% of the world's population and 25% of the world's incarcerated population.[18][dated info] In terms of federal prison, 57% of those incarcerated were sentenced for drug offenses. It is all connected, but what we do with the information is what is important. correlations can be direct of indirect,,,,there are too many factors to 'crime' to try to discuss one element as an exclusively significant factor criminals are predominately poor, so there is an indirect correlation to crime and being 'poor',, but does that mean poverty itself leads to crime? probably not, because asian countries have very high poverty with lower crime? in the years discussed above, MANY things in our political and social landscape changed which could then be said to CORRELATE to the crime rates,, but whether they can be proven to have a CAUSAL relation is a totally different story,,, |
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Edited by
Bushidobillyclub
on
Fri 03/02/12 06:41 PM
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its not JUST that guns are scary, its that BULLETS from guns can END LIVES,,,,
How come my gun has never done this? How come the 100 million legally owned firearms haven't done this?
unlike a lock on a door, or looking before crossing, or any of the other comparisons made,,, Cars end far more lives every year. I never said you weren't a caple emotionally stable person Yea I was talking about you, I am armed. You presented a picture of a very competent and emotionally stable person and I said it would be a shame such a person fell victim to a violent death because the government striped you of your ability to defend yourself.
I mean maybe you are even more fit to defend yourself than I am. I have broke my back twice, for a 6 '4 260 lbs man I am actually made of glass. This is the beauty of firearms, the great equalizer, but not if the authorities deem you a threat to society and take away your abilities. probably not, because asian countries have very high poverty with lower crime? are you guessing?
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bushido asked :How come my gun has never done this?
this is EXACTLY my point your opinion that guns keep you safe are based upon YOUR personal experience, and unless and until your gun DID become the center of some accidental death,, you wouldnt be swayed to believe otherwise I have been assaulted twice, and lived to tell about it, no gun was present (Either on the perp or myself) and until or unless that were to change I have no PERSONAL motivation to be swayed from my belief that Im safe enough without one,,, |
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Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Fri 03/02/12 08:20 PM
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Laws only prevent law abiding citizens from carrying guns. Criminals will always have guns. They don't care about the laws.
Therefore, if criminals, rapists and thieves and murderers all have guns, and you don't, you are vulnerable. You are like the prey. They are the predators. You are the gazelle, they are the predators. Your only safety is in numbers. Maybe they won't chose you. Maybe they will. 
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Laws only prevent law abiding citizens from carrying guns. Criminals will always have guns. They don't care about the laws. Therefore, if criminals, rapists and thieves and murderers all have guns, and you don't, you are vulnerable. Im vulnerable if I do have a gun too,,there is no way to totally erase 'vulnerability' I am also vulnerable to being shot by my OWN gun if I have one and to accidentally taking an unintended life not worth it for the miniscual change in my personal 'vulnerability' to crime |
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Laws only prevent law abiding citizens from carrying guns. Criminals will always have guns. They don't care about the laws. Therefore, if criminals, rapists and thieves and murderers all have guns, and you don't, you are vulnerable. Im vulnerable if I do have a gun too,,there is no way to totally erase 'vulnerability' I am also vulnerable to being shot by my OWN gun if I have one and to accidentally taking an unintended life not worth it for the miniscual change in my personal 'vulnerability' to crime The predator chooses the MOST vulnerable. The weakest in the herd. Keep a wary eye. After two attacks, I'm sure you have a very wary eye to danger and avoid it. I was attacked once also, but I knew a little self defense and the attacker was drunk, so he lost. |
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Laws only prevent law abiding citizens from carrying guns. Criminals will always have guns. They don't care about the laws. Therefore, if criminals, rapists and thieves and murderers all have guns, and you don't, you are vulnerable. Im vulnerable if I do have a gun too,,there is no way to totally erase 'vulnerability' I am also vulnerable to being shot by my OWN gun if I have one and to accidentally taking an unintended life not worth it for the miniscual change in my personal 'vulnerability' to crime I agree, awareness is a great tool, I use it daily... The predator chooses the MOST vulnerable. The weakest in the herd. Keep a wary eye. After two attacks, I'm sure you have a very wary eye to danger and avoid it. I was attacked once also, but I knew a little self defense and the attacker was drunk, so he lost. |
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