this I believe, one of the craziest things about our system and one of the things immigrants I have worked with from throughout europe is how central debt is in our daily life


that we start kids out of school in DEBT to pay ridiculous rates

that we determine whether to help or loan money to others based up on what their 'credit' is which is determined by them paying for things in increments instead of up front like people who can afford them

that we then charge people who have had problems with their money in the past even MORE money than those who pay back easily


,,,,its just a crazy system , in terms of how we validate people's worthiness financially,,,

Just released....for an update....

http://news.yahoo.com/judge-says-obama-must-appear-birther-suit-020453359.html;_ylt=AvT31grjmWupUAKbKQynicSmWot4;_ylu=X3oDMTRvbXR vdHEyBGNjb2RlA2dtcHRvcDEwMDBwb29sd2lraXVwcmVzdARtaXQDTmV3cyBmb3Ig eW91BHBrZwMwMjFmMTdlYy1hOWIzLTNiYzgtYjVhNi1hNzlhNjlkOWUwMDIEcG9zA zgEc2VjA25ld3NfZm9yX3lvdQR2ZXIDZjVkYWJiMDAtNDYzMS0xMWUxLTk1YWEtNm Y2YWNmNzQwYzY5;_ylg=X3oDMTNocWtoZHFhBGludGwDdXMEbGFuZwNlbi11cwRwc 3RhaWQDZWQ4ZjI2ZTQtZWQwOS0zODhkLTkxNjMtZmQ0MDA4NzMwOGVhBHBzdGNhdA Nwb2xpdGljc3xkZXN0aW5hdGlvbjIwMTIEcHQDc3RvcnlwYWdlBHRlc3QD;_ylv=3

Judge says Obama must appear in 'birther' suit
AFP – 16 hrs ago

A judge in Georgia has ordered President Barack Obama to appear in court this week in a lawsuit challenging whether he is a natural-born US citizen qualified to be president.

The latest case was spawned by the so-called "birther" movement that has made claims -- which have not been substantiated -- that Obama was born overseas.

Although it is unclear whether a court could force a sitting president to appear in a court case, Georgia Deputy Chief Judge Michael Malihi has denied a motion by the president's lawyer to quash a subpoena that requires Obama to show up.

A Georgia resident made the complaint, which is intended to keep Obama's name off the state's ballot in the March presidential primary.

Orly Taitz, a California attorney who brought the legal challenge, said she expects the president's legal team to fight his appearance in the Georgia court but by doing so would expose his vulnerability.

An Obama campaign official said the case would not likely proceed.

"As courts around the country have ruled time and again, these claims have no merit and any attempts to compel the president's personal involvement will fail," a statement said

I hope this Judge follows through and doesn't sell out.

Reckon, if he's a no-show, he'll get picked up on the warrant?

hmm, if I can pay an attorney to appear in court for traffic citations, I am somehow doubting the sitting president wont be legally permitted to have someone appear in court for an 'allegation' that only requires paperwork to quash,,,,,

This depends on the wording of the supeona, and the type of hearing.

If it is simply a "show cause", he can appear by proxy, but if it is an indictment, he must be present.

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I wonder which certificate he will show the court?

This one: (with NO state seal, and in pristine condition)

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2011/images/04/27/obama.hawaii.certificate.jpg

or the one shown here that actually has a "seal" attached and looks like a 1960's document: (a pdf file)

http://www.wasobamaborninkenya.com/

Time will tell I guess....

I'm not a birther, but if he'd just prove beyond all doubt that he is indeed a citizen, then that should be that. Why is it so complex?

A truth is always easiest to prove.... if there were truth in the claim his BC is valid, and his SS#, this would not be an issue.

I'm not a birther either, but I am a citizen and can prove it without doubt..... so as a President or candidate to be so, such challenges should be proved easily and answered beyond ANY suspiction or doubt.

It is for that reason I see this as an acceptable motion for him to prove his "right" for office.... beyond all doubt!

It is a FACT that there are two BC's out there carrying his name and birth date, same mother and father, one with a seal (from Kenya), one without (from Hawaii).... that in itself demands an explanation, and possible fraud charges, impeachment, repeal of all his bills and presidential acts, and deportation unless he has a valid passport (which would be impossible if fraud is found to be the case).

If a judge is found to be "dirty", corrupt or become mentaly unstable, all their cases are retried or reinvestigated. Can you imagine the implications if he is found to have committed fraud in all of this?

Yes, I can prove it easily, in fact, I don't know anyone who was born here that can't.......why is he having so many problems? And why are there two birth certificates? Makes me wonder. But if he is found to be not to be legit, all he** will break loose.

Lies, Damn Lies, Benchmarks....

http://www.wnd.com/2012/01/georgia-court-told-obama-slam-dunk-disqualified/

Several of the attorneys introduced passages from Obama’s own writings that Barack Obama Sr. was his father. They then introduced evidence that the man never was a U.S. citizen, that he was a citizen of Kenya at the time of junior’s birth and was therefore a subject of the United Kingdom.

His father’s citizenship, they said, precludes him from serving as president, since the Founders required that officer to be a “natural-born citizen,” not just a “citizen.”

.
.
.

Titus taught constitutional law, common law, and other subjects for nearly 30 years at five different American Bar Association-approved law schools. From 1986 to 1993, he served as the founding dean of the College of Law and Government in Regent University in Virginia Beach, Va. Prior to his academic career, he served as a trial attorney and a special assistant United States attorney with the United States Department of Justice in Washington, D.C., and Kansas City, Mo.

He told WND the fact that Obama’s father was a Kenyan citizen should be sufficient.

“That is much stronger than the question of where he was born,” he said. “That alone is evidence. … They don’t need anything additional.”

Taitz argued multiple prongs of the case: that the birth certificate released by the White House is a forgery; that he probably has had several citizenships, such as when he was listed in Indonesia as an Indonesian citizen; and that he’s been known under the names Obama, Soetoro and Soebarkah.

She also had a private investigator, Susan Daniels, testify that it appears Obama is using a fraudulent Social Security number.

I just made me a new birth certificate. Just like Barry. You can to.
Looks real, doesn't it?



http://kenyanbirthcertificategenerator.com/

or the one FACT CHECKERS handled and verified

http://factcheck.org/2008/08/born-in-the-usa/

been done , time and time again, but with birthers there is no way to prove 'beyond all doubt',, they will always scream fake or conspiracy whatever they are shown,,,

or not

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/birthers/kenyacert.asp

I'm not an accuser, a judge or a jury.... I'm willing to let it play out.

I question many things because I don't have the answers. Many of the answers we are given don't fit the facts on many things.

I've always been taught that if you don't know the answer you ask, question, and do research.

The FACT that many still question it AT ALL, means it needs to be addressed.....

This is my only stand on the issue.

Like Willing stated, documents are forged every day. Money and power can produce some very convincing ones that can pass any "normal" check without question.

So the Intelligence agencies of the US are that incompetent?

A President must be vetted for security reasons as well. A lot of classified information goes to him. I would hope that a thorough check is done of each Presidential candidate by Intelligence agencies to be sure that there is no problem is done.

He fooled them all?






Yup. This is funny as hell. American citizens doing their very best to make their Intelligence / Security Agencies look incompetent and succeeding.

http://news.yahoo.com/obama-continue-campaign-ignore-subpoena-thursday-152951923.html

Obama to continue campaign, ignore subpoena on Thursday
By Adam Jablonowski - The Daily Caller – 22 hrs ago

California attorney and “birther” Orly Taitz is calling for Obama to be removed from Georgia’s March 6 primary. After Taitz launched a series of failed lawsuits challenging Obama’s natural-born citizenship, Georgia Deputy Chief Judge Michael Malihi subpoenaed the president to appear before the court on Thursday on the grounds that his filings to Georgia’s secretary of state fail to show why his attendance would be “unreasonable or oppressive,” or why his testimony would be “irrelevant, immaterial or cumulative.”

Obama’s attorney, Michael Jablonski, wrote Georgia’s secretary of state, dismissing the charges as frivolous. “All issues were presented to your hearing officer — the clear-cut decision to be on the merits, and the flagrantly unethical and unprofessional conduct of counsel — and he has allowed the plaintiffs’ counsel to run amok,” Jablonski wrote. “He has not even addressed these issues — choosing to ignore them.”

“We await your taking the requested action, and as we do so, we will, of course, suspend further participation in these proceedings, including the hearing scheduled for [Thursday,] January 26.”

In response to Jablonski’s letter, Taitz challenged the administration on her blog, writing, “He [Obama] is acting like a 5-year-old brat, saying ‘I am afraid of Orly, I want the secretary of state of Georgia to act like my mommy and protect me from Orly. Some leader of a free world.”

The White House announced that Obama will be out campaigning through several states on Thursday, and Georgia is not one of them.

it's fairly clear by now I think that I'm politically apolitical and therefore am able to be fairly objective. plus I think barrack is a cute dude. but if it is true that his ssn & birth certificate are forged - that would not be good

you or I could end up in the slammer for that...