right that's a good point. there is NOTHING wrong with a man who does not want kids

if he does have them - he needs to man up - so what you are suggesting then is that some of the behavior we see from married men who still act like kids is because they never sorted out that they really did not want a family?

I mean most of us go thru a little mid-life silliness in our 30s or 40s -

but there are the guys who are like having another kid in the house...and have always been that way

I totally agree with this. It should have been the happiest time for us, instead it was the beginning of the end. If they even think that they cannot accept the added responsibility and work involved with children, then plese don't have them.

amen

typically, the 'weaker' woman is expected to have a 24/7 job without actual pay of her own or time to herself except to sleep

while the 'stronger' man is expected to punch a clock when he is 'done' possibly five days a week,, and then put his feet up or go have fun or whatever else he wants to do with the money he 'earned' by working a set number of hours,,,,,

that part of our expectations is backwards,,,for sure,,,

he's whipped

hey now it doesnt help the woman pops em out like shes a pez dispenser

But admitting to these kinds of preferences totally horrifies some people, though.

When I was studying psychology, I had a conversation with one of my instructors about this. When I mentioned that I absolutely positively did not someone who had kids or who would want kids down the road, she was totally flabbergasted.

"You're asking them to go against their natural function!" she said.

And it puzzled me for a long time, because the subtext seemed to be that a woman isn't really a woman unless/until she has kids. And I've always seen that in terms of adjunct identification more than natural function.

But I'm clearly in the minority on that one.

it dont work anyhow do thier worst

I think it may have been a generational thing. She was quite a bit older than I was, past normal retirement age -- so there may have been a reflection of how things were when she was much younger.

But there is still this standard mindset that women are "supposed" to be mothers, and that it's a terrible shame if they aren't, or that there must be something wrong with them if they actually don't want to be.

And it's pervasive. I've mentioned this before: when I was about 9 or 10, my Mom wanted me to do something or other, and I said "Why?" and she said "You'll understand when you grow up and have kids of your own." Not "if," but "when." For the longest time, I thought it was mandatory. Everyone in our neighborhood had kids, except for one older couple, the Novaks, who, according to rumor, couldn't have any. And all the adults on the block shunned them as if they were lepers.

I never wanted children. People thought I would change my mind. I didn't.

But I see no reason to be married if you don't want to raise children.

Lex, what I see about you is that you want a woman, but I can't for the life of me figure out what you want her for.

You don't want to change anything about your life, you don't want her to change you and you complain that all women try to get you to change.

Marriage is change. People always change after marriage. So a woman coming into your house and your life will bring change to your life. What would you have her do? Tip toe around the house and around you in fear of you thinking that she is trying to change you?

I can see your first argument already. You are yelling "Stop trying to change me!!" She just asked you to do something different or to rearrange the furniture or pick up your underwear or something stupid like that. There is really no room for her to be herself because that, heaven forbid, might change something about you or your life.

No one can change you but YOU. I think it is you who has an attitude that repels any potential relationship you might have. You are not very clear on anything that you want except that you don't want someone to try to change you. The only way to do that is to not get involved with you at all. That way you will stay the same.

Everyone, and the entire universe knows what you don't want. No one really knows what you want. Its no wonder you always get what you don't want. You advertise it, you think about it all the time. Law of attraction will give you that because that is all you think about and talk about.

Just my two cents.

Totally agree with this statement..


Carry On...

I really like you. Let's not get married together.

No Children OK...

It's nothing so innocuous as all that. I've been in enough relationships to know that a certain degree of compromise and flexibility is required. I don't have any problem with that. I'm actually quite good at it.

The issue is the fundamental stuff -- the "I don't want kids either!" for 90 days until she feels like I can no longer live without her, and now's the time to spring "I need a BAY-BEE!" on me.

I'm talking about the core, root essence of my beliefs -- I do not want to be a parent, and the minute she reveals that her agenda involves my being a parent, it's done.

This is the kind of change I'm talking about. Not the put-the-seat-down, put-the-socks-in-the-hamper, could-you-take-out-the-garbage day-to-day stuff.



I keep telling people that, and they keep trying anyway.



I think I'm very clear on what I want. Someone smart and creative, with a sense of humor and good conversational skills. Someone who doesn't feel bound and constrained to fit into some archaic, preconceived societal role. Someone who doesn't expect me to be a cardboard cutout of Ward Cleaver.

I think that's reasonably clear.



The thing is, IF their agenda gets back to the whole parenthood thing, then I would PREFER they make no attempt to get involved with me.

As I'm not convinced there are any women out there who aren't ultimately tethered to the parenting agenda -- yes, I've heard the rumors and myths and legends, but they are no more real to me than the Yeti or the Loch Ness Monster -- there isn't anyone I'm currently aware of who I would want to be involved with.



OK, but I don't believe in that "law of attraction" stuff -- it's like the people who say "It will come when you're not looking," which is demonstrably wrong. Much of what happens or doesn't happen is simply circumstance and blind chance. Cliches are of no use if you're operating in the real world, and if you understand that cliches are primarily meant to comfort and placate without putting any effort into it -- they have no material or predictive value. In my opinion.

That's funny.



Everything in your life is there because of what you think about. (It doesn't matter if you "believe in the law of attraction or not.")

It's not a religion. It is the law of vibration.

It is causation and that begins with THOUGHT.

Anyone who has ever learned how to get what they want understand and practice this law.

It is not a "Cliche."

But then, if you knew that, you would have exactly what you want.

I turn on the TV and there are ten million commercials talking about a program to get rich in real estate or through the stock market or by selling polyester pie pans to people in Indonesia or whatever. And they all have at least two things in common -- they appeal to gullible people who want to make a lot of money without actually having to do anything, and they don't work.

Because if they did work, everybody would already be absurdly rich and there would be no further need for this sort of thing in the first place.

I once knew a woman who was convinced she could get rich doing the stuff-envelopes-at-home thing which was a big scam back in the 1980s. She actually did it for about two weeks and gave up.

"Law of attraction" sounds good, admittedly, but there's no rational basis for me to believe in that, any more than I would be inclined to believe in astrology or Ouija boards or palm reading or tea leaves or whatever. It's all wishful thinking, in the end. We all wish we had more say in our lives, at some point, but the fact is there are limitations on what we can do, what we can influence, and all the self-delusion in the world isn't going to make that mountain jump up and plop itself into the ocean, if I may borrow a Biblical reference.

I can think and think and think and do everything I can do to convince myself, but I am still not going to be able to walk to the moon.

In psychology, there is a term called "magical thinking" which is a belief that if I do A, then B will happen. It's like a guy watching a ball game on TV. He's eating an Oreo when his team hits a home run, so he eats another Oreo when the next batter comes up, figuring these events are linked somehow. "Step on a crack, break your Mother's back," that sort of thing.

I don't see "Law of attraction" as being any different.

If it works for you, great. To me, it's just wishful thinking, delusion, and trying to create a cause-and-effect where none demonstrably exists.

>>>>>Because if they did work, everybody would already be absurdly rich and there would be no further need for this sort of thing in the first place<<<<

It does work. But most people don't know enough about it to use it properly. Athletes are being trained with visualization techniques and they do work. The consistently have been proven to improve performance when practiced.

Not everyone thinks about being "absurdly rich" enough to make it happen. Some people do. (Donald Trump.)

I look on the Internet and there are ten million get rich programs there too. The reason 99% of them don't work is because people who buy them don't follow through with them. And that is the legitimate one. Others are scams.

But that has nothing to do with the law of attraction at all.

>>>I can think and think and think and do everything I can do to convince myself, but I am still not going to be able to walk to the moon.<<<<

Maybe not you, but somebody thought about it enough to get it done.

Unless you believe our trip to the moon was a hoax.

The point is, if you don't think it, and you don't believe it, then it will NEVER EVER HAPPEN.

AND

If you always think about what you don't want, presto! That is what you will get.

Causation begins with thought.

"I might wish right now to instantly become a tomato larger than the whole universe, but now matter how hard I try, I cannot do it." -- J. Richard Gott, Time Travel in Einstein's Universe