Community > General Religion Chat

Previous 1 2 … 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 Next

Topic: Is the Bible historically accurate?
Dragoness Joined Wed 10/17/07 Posts: 23320	Wed 07/13/11 01:57 PM
there is no great enlightenment in store neither one where everyone will BELIEVE, or where everyone will STOP BELIEVING there is just too much there that is logical and makes sense and CAN be historically validated(in some sense) to throw out the Bible and the question is,, why should anyone be taking that much effort to even 'try'? Throwing out the bible? Noone even suggests it, Putting it in the perspective of what it actually is and what is should be used for is the problem. It is a book of fables and can be read for enjoyment or retrospection but it by no means governs anyone and shouldn't be used for such.

Spidercmb Joined Fri 04/27/07 Posts: 13137	Wed 07/13/11 02:01 PM Edited by Spidercmb on Wed 07/13/11 02:04 PM
What you say logically (and legally) "should" be the case. But in some Jewish circles it simply IS NOT THE CASE. There are two kinds of Jews. When people wake up to this fact, the **** will hit the fan. It actually is the case. You expect everyone to believe that you have some secret knowledge that the rest of the world doesn't know? What could possibly make anyone believe that? Projecting, I see. You expect people to believe that of you...lol I have never expected that. That's absolutely untrue. EDIT: I have also never claimed to have secret knowledge. I don't believe any great truths have been kept from people, the information is out there if people want it.

msharmony Joined Mon 08/31/09 Posts: 61041	Wed 07/13/11 02:10 PM
there is no great enlightenment in store neither one where everyone will BELIEVE, or where everyone will STOP BELIEVING there is just too much there that is logical and makes sense and CAN be historically validated(in some sense) to throw out the Bible and the question is,, why should anyone be taking that much effort to even 'try'? Throwing out the bible? Noone even suggests it, Putting it in the perspective of what it actually is and what is should be used for is the problem. It is a book of fables and can be read for enjoyment or retrospection but it by no means governs anyone and shouldn't be used for such. not implied in this thread, but in another where a question of 'discrediting' the bible is the topic,,,

jrbogie Joined Sat 03/01/08 Posts: 2490	Wed 07/13/11 02:45 PM Edited by jrbogie on Wed 07/13/11 02:48 PM
did genesis mention six thousand years?... no. genesis mentions a 'history' that begins with the creation of the universe and then follows adam, who appears merely a few days later, and his descendants chronologically. by doing the math and reading further in the bible through the the life of jesus and adding another couple thousand years to get to present day it comes out to about six thousand years since 'creation.' however you do the math it damn sure doesn't come near the 13.75 billion years that science has estimated the age of the universe to be. says who? I still dont follow where the numbers for this 'math' come from,,,,, who determined how much time passed between the creation of the earth and the time jesus passed? How did they come to such a precise calculation ? in one biblical DAY (the time it took for God to create dark and light,,which isnt specifically annotated at all), many of what we now consider years could have passed,, who felt of such superior intellect to actually claim to have figured this time period out? says me, mh, and many christians. i've gone throught bible chorologically decades ago when i began to question all that i'd been taught in my youth and if i'm to take the bible literally i come up with roughly six thousand years from 'biblical day' one, as you call it until present day. the topic is about the historical correctness of the bible is it not? does history have to be taken literally? if not, what good are any historical writings? do the reading and the math. don't do the reading and the math. i could care less, but i'll maintain that biblical 'history' puts the age of the universe way way off that determined by physics. like everything else where the bible conflicts with science, i'll stick with the science. we all put faith in someone,,,, not me. i put no faith in anyone. i do find the science in this case to be highly plausible and genesis highly implausible. but then the issue is the historical accuracy of the bible. as such i see genesis as not in the least likely accurate.

Jeanniebean Joined Wed 01/30/08 Posts: 40028	Wed 07/13/11 02:58 PM
there is no great enlightenment in store neither one where everyone will BELIEVE, or where everyone will STOP BELIEVING there is just too much there that is logical and makes sense and CAN be historically validated(in some sense) to throw out the Bible and the question is,, why should anyone be taking that much effort to even 'try'? Throwing out the bible? Noone even suggests it, Putting it in the perspective of what it actually is and what is should be used for is the problem. It is a book of fables and can be read for enjoyment or retrospection but it by no means governs anyone and shouldn't be used for such. not implied in this thread, but in another where a question of 'discrediting' the bible is the topic,,, I never suggested we should throw out the Bible. I'm not into book burning of any kind. What I want to do is discredit fundamentalism and people who insist the Bible is the infallible word of their All Mighty God, and dismantle the three fake religions of Islam, Christianity and Judaism. Not much else.

Spidercmb Joined Fri 04/27/07 Posts: 13137	Wed 07/13/11 02:59 PM
I never suggested we should throw out the Bible. I'm not into book burning of any kind. What I want to do is discredit fundamentalism and people who insist the Bible is the infallible word of their All Mighty God, and dismantle the three fake religions of Islam, Christianity and Judaism. Not much else. What do you feel you have to gain from dismantling those religions?

msharmony Joined Mon 08/31/09 Posts: 61041	Wed 07/13/11 03:06 PM
there is no great enlightenment in store neither one where everyone will BELIEVE, or where everyone will STOP BELIEVING there is just too much there that is logical and makes sense and CAN be historically validated(in some sense) to throw out the Bible and the question is,, why should anyone be taking that much effort to even 'try'? Throwing out the bible? Noone even suggests it, Putting it in the perspective of what it actually is and what is should be used for is the problem. It is a book of fables and can be read for enjoyment or retrospection but it by no means governs anyone and shouldn't be used for such. not implied in this thread, but in another where a question of 'discrediting' the bible is the topic,,, I never suggested we should throw out the Bible. I'm not into book burning of any kind. What I want to do is discredit fundamentalism and people who insist the Bible is the infallible word of their All Mighty God, and dismantle the three fake religions of Islam, Christianity and Judaism. Not much else. the dilemma is that such an action would only reach people who werent already 'fundamentalist' so there would be very little actual point to it if I believe the bible to be the infallible word of God, who created men and scientists and everyone else,, what could possibly make me believe that his CREATION understood more than HE ,,,,,,as opposed to continuing to believe that his CREATION may be mistaken and falling short of understanding of how HE works,,,,

Kleisto Joined Tue 05/13/08 Posts: 5704	Wed 07/13/11 03:25 PM
there is no great enlightenment in store neither one where everyone will BELIEVE, or where everyone will STOP BELIEVING there is just too much there that is logical and makes sense and CAN be historically validated(in some sense) to throw out the Bible If it was so logical, I think we wouldn't even be having this discussion. That we are speaks to the illogicalness of it, that many people recognize. The simple fact is, there are things in the Bible that you simply cannot justify unless you have to justify it. On their own merits, they are unjustifiable.

Kleisto Joined Tue 05/13/08 Posts: 5704	Wed 07/13/11 03:26 PM
I never suggested we should throw out the Bible. I'm not into book burning of any kind. What I want to do is discredit fundamentalism and people who insist the Bible is the infallible word of their All Mighty God, and dismantle the three fake religions of Islam, Christianity and Judaism. Not much else. What do you feel you have to gain from dismantling those religions? I could sum it up in 3 words: waking people up.

Jeanniebean Joined Wed 01/30/08 Posts: 40028	Wed 07/13/11 03:31 PM
I never suggested we should throw out the Bible. I'm not into book burning of any kind. What I want to do is discredit fundamentalism and people who insist the Bible is the infallible word of their All Mighty God, and dismantle the three fake religions of Islam, Christianity and Judaism. Not much else. What do you feel you have to gain from dismantling those religions? Personally, I probably would not gain much of anything. I simply dislike lies and deception and my life's mission has always been an on-going quest for truth.

Jeanniebean Joined Wed 01/30/08 Posts: 40028	Wed 07/13/11 03:33 PM
there is no great enlightenment in store neither one where everyone will BELIEVE, or where everyone will STOP BELIEVING there is just too much there that is logical and makes sense and CAN be historically validated(in some sense) to throw out the Bible and the question is,, why should anyone be taking that much effort to even 'try'? Throwing out the bible? Noone even suggests it, Putting it in the perspective of what it actually is and what is should be used for is the problem. It is a book of fables and can be read for enjoyment or retrospection but it by no means governs anyone and shouldn't be used for such. not implied in this thread, but in another where a question of 'discrediting' the bible is the topic,,, I never suggested we should throw out the Bible. I'm not into book burning of any kind. What I want to do is discredit fundamentalism and people who insist the Bible is the infallible word of their All Mighty God, and dismantle the three fake religions of Islam, Christianity and Judaism. Not much else. the dilemma is that such an action would only reach people who werent already 'fundamentalist' so there would be very little actual point to it People who enforce the law and put criminals behind bars sometimes think there is little point to their jobs because there are always other criminals to deal with. if I believe the bible to be the infallible word of God, who created men and scientists and everyone else,, what could possibly make me believe that his CREATION understood more than HE ,,,,,,as opposed to continuing to believe that his CREATION may be mistaken and falling short of understanding of how HE works,,,, There will always be some people who are not ready for truth.

msharmony Joined Mon 08/31/09 Posts: 61041	Wed 07/13/11 03:52 PM
there is no great enlightenment in store neither one where everyone will BELIEVE, or where everyone will STOP BELIEVING there is just too much there that is logical and makes sense and CAN be historically validated(in some sense) to throw out the Bible If it was so logical, I think we wouldn't even be having this discussion. That we are speaks to the illogicalness of it, that many people recognize. The simple fact is, there are things in the Bible that you simply cannot justify unless you have to justify it. On their own merits, they are unjustifiable. thats like saying if the world was so 'good' we wouldnt be having discussions about the 'bad' things or adversely if the world is so 'bad' we couldnt discuss the 'good' things you cant throw out all the good because of the bad, you cant ignore the good is there because of the bad likewise, you cant discredit thousands of pages of information because you find a dozen or a hundred which have (at best) inconsistency

msharmony Joined Mon 08/31/09 Posts: 61041	Wed 07/13/11 03:53 PM
there is no great enlightenment in store neither one where everyone will BELIEVE, or where everyone will STOP BELIEVING there is just too much there that is logical and makes sense and CAN be historically validated(in some sense) to throw out the Bible If it was so logical, I think we wouldn't even be having this discussion. That we are speaks to the illogicalness of it, that many people recognize. The simple fact is, there are things in the Bible that you simply cannot justify unless you have to justify it. On their own merits, they are unjustifiable. thats like saying if the world was so 'good' we wouldnt be having discussions about the 'bad' things or adversely if the world is so 'bad' we couldnt discuss the 'good' things you cant throw out all the good because of the bad, you cant ignore the good is there because of the bad likewise, you cant discredit thousands of pages of information because you find a dozen or a hundred which have (at best) inconsistency

Kleisto Joined Tue 05/13/08 Posts: 5704	Wed 07/13/11 03:57 PM
there is no great enlightenment in store neither one where everyone will BELIEVE, or where everyone will STOP BELIEVING there is just too much there that is logical and makes sense and CAN be historically validated(in some sense) to throw out the Bible If it was so logical, I think we wouldn't even be having this discussion. That we are speaks to the illogicalness of it, that many people recognize. The simple fact is, there are things in the Bible that you simply cannot justify unless you have to justify it. On their own merits, they are unjustifiable. thats like saying if the world was so 'good' we wouldnt be having discussions about the 'bad' things or adversely if the world is so 'bad' we couldnt discuss the 'good' things you cant throw out all the good because of the bad, you cant ignore the good is there because of the bad likewise, you cant discredit thousands of pages of information because you find a dozen or a hundred which have (at best) inconsistency If it's supposed to be infallible, than there should not be any inconsistencies. If you wanna say it has some truths within it, that's fine, cause even amongst the bad parts there is a little bit to be found. But if you're gonna try and claim it's the infallible word of God, that is to say without error, it damn well better back up the claim. If it doesn't, than it's already discredited as such a thing by default.

Jeanniebean Joined Wed 01/30/08 Posts: 40028	Wed 07/13/11 04:06 PM
likewise, you cant discredit thousands of pages of information because you find a dozen or a hundred which have (at best) inconsistency That is not really what this is about. Of course there are "inconsistencies" in the Bible. There always have been. I see no reason to nit pick over inconsistencies and metaphors. My focus would be on specific spun stories that are the foundation for three Abrahamic religions of Islam, Judaism and Christianity, which all have their own versions of things as they transpired from King David's lineage. These three religions are doctrines that have been in conflict since the beginning of the civilized world. They can't all be true. It is very likely that they are all based on the fiction of King David. Yet none of these religions want to go there.. because they know that their own religious doctrines will unravel. I merely challenge them to go there. If they are so certain they are right... they should not be afraid to go there.

msharmony Joined Mon 08/31/09 Posts: 61041	Wed 07/13/11 04:11 PM
there is no great enlightenment in store neither one where everyone will BELIEVE, or where everyone will STOP BELIEVING there is just too much there that is logical and makes sense and CAN be historically validated(in some sense) to throw out the Bible If it was so logical, I think we wouldn't even be having this discussion. That we are speaks to the illogicalness of it, that many people recognize. The simple fact is, there are things in the Bible that you simply cannot justify unless you have to justify it. On their own merits, they are unjustifiable. thats like saying if the world was so 'good' we wouldnt be having discussions about the 'bad' things or adversely if the world is so 'bad' we couldnt discuss the 'good' things you cant throw out all the good because of the bad, you cant ignore the good is there because of the bad likewise, you cant discredit thousands of pages of information because you find a dozen or a hundred which have (at best) inconsistency If it's supposed to be infallible, than there should not be any inconsistencies. If you wanna say it has some truths within it, that's fine, cause even amongst the bad parts there is a little bit to be found. But if you're gonna try and claim it's the infallible word of God, that is to say without error, it damn well better back up the claim. If it doesn't, than it's already discredited as such a thing by default. but it cant be proven to be fallible amongst those who believe in it,, thats my point its the logic of the person INTERPRETING it that is fallible...

Kleisto Joined Tue 05/13/08 Posts: 5704	Wed 07/13/11 04:33 PM Edited by Kleisto on Wed 07/13/11 04:36 PM
there is no great enlightenment in store neither one where everyone will BELIEVE, or where everyone will STOP BELIEVING there is just too much there that is logical and makes sense and CAN be historically validated(in some sense) to throw out the Bible If it was so logical, I think we wouldn't even be having this discussion. That we are speaks to the illogicalness of it, that many people recognize. The simple fact is, there are things in the Bible that you simply cannot justify unless you have to justify it. On their own merits, they are unjustifiable. thats like saying if the world was so 'good' we wouldnt be having discussions about the 'bad' things or adversely if the world is so 'bad' we couldnt discuss the 'good' things you cant throw out all the good because of the bad, you cant ignore the good is there because of the bad likewise, you cant discredit thousands of pages of information because you find a dozen or a hundred which have (at best) inconsistency If it's supposed to be infallible, than there should not be any inconsistencies. If you wanna say it has some truths within it, that's fine, cause even amongst the bad parts there is a little bit to be found. But if you're gonna try and claim it's the infallible word of God, that is to say without error, it damn well better back up the claim. If it doesn't, than it's already discredited as such a thing by default. but it cant be proven to be fallible amongst those who believe in it,, thats my point Well of course it can't, because they won't accept any proof! If they believe it to be infallible than naturally anything showing it to be infallible will be rejected by them. Not that hard to figure out. its the logic of the person INTERPRETING it that is fallible... I've said it before and I will say it again, this is EXACTLY the problem with the Bible and those that defend it. You are arguing it from a position that it's already true by default, and nothing is gonna make it false. That does not a true discussion make. How can you truly discuss the validity of something, if you already have a bias to prove it true, rather than be open to the truth no matter where it takes you? You can't.

Spidercmb Joined Fri 04/27/07 Posts: 13137	Wed 07/13/11 04:44 PM
I never suggested we should throw out the Bible. I'm not into book burning of any kind. What I want to do is discredit fundamentalism and people who insist the Bible is the infallible word of their All Mighty God, and dismantle the three fake religions of Islam, Christianity and Judaism. Not much else. What do you feel you have to gain from dismantling those religions? Personally, I probably would not gain much of anything. I simply dislike lies and deception and my life's mission has always been an on-going quest for truth. So you are positive that you know the truth? You couldn't possibly be wrong? And you feel that you should denounce other people's beliefs, so that maybe they'll give up their beliefs? You don't even want to spread your own beliefs, you just want to trample on other peoples beliefs. Okay.

msharmony Joined Mon 08/31/09 Posts: 61041	Wed 07/13/11 04:48 PM
there is no great enlightenment in store neither one where everyone will BELIEVE, or where everyone will STOP BELIEVING there is just too much there that is logical and makes sense and CAN be historically validated(in some sense) to throw out the Bible If it was so logical, I think we wouldn't even be having this discussion. That we are speaks to the illogicalness of it, that many people recognize. The simple fact is, there are things in the Bible that you simply cannot justify unless you have to justify it. On their own merits, they are unjustifiable. thats like saying if the world was so 'good' we wouldnt be having discussions about the 'bad' things or adversely if the world is so 'bad' we couldnt discuss the 'good' things you cant throw out all the good because of the bad, you cant ignore the good is there because of the bad likewise, you cant discredit thousands of pages of information because you find a dozen or a hundred which have (at best) inconsistency If it's supposed to be infallible, than there should not be any inconsistencies. If you wanna say it has some truths within it, that's fine, cause even amongst the bad parts there is a little bit to be found. But if you're gonna try and claim it's the infallible word of God, that is to say without error, it damn well better back up the claim. If it doesn't, than it's already discredited as such a thing by default. but it cant be proven to be fallible amongst those who believe in it,, thats my point Well of course it can't, because they won't accept any proof! If they believe it to be infallible than naturally anything showing it to be infallible will be rejected by them. Not that hard to figure out. its the logic of the person INTERPRETING it that is fallible... I've said it before and I will say it again, this is EXACTLY the problem with the Bible and those that defend it. You are arguing it from a position that it's already true by default, and nothing is gonna make it false. That does not a true discussion make. How can you truly discuss the validity of something, if you already have a bias to prove it true, rather than be open to the truth no matter where it takes you? You can't. well, you just need to have common 'truth' amongst those having the discussion if you go by there being no ABSOLUTE truth, and everything being open to review and reconsideration, than even the 'truth' provided by science to some is not ABSOLUTE,, yet those who follow it will discuss thier views as if it is there is a human tendency to view 'truth' as (by default) infallible,,, wherever the source of that truth comes from

Kleisto Joined Tue 05/13/08 Posts: 5704	Wed 07/13/11 04:49 PM
I never suggested we should throw out the Bible. I'm not into book burning of any kind. What I want to do is discredit fundamentalism and people who insist the Bible is the infallible word of their All Mighty God, and dismantle the three fake religions of Islam, Christianity and Judaism. Not much else. What do you feel you have to gain from dismantling those religions? Personally, I probably would not gain much of anything. I simply dislike lies and deception and my life's mission has always been an on-going quest for truth. So you are positive that you know the truth? You couldn't possibly be wrong? And you feel that you should denounce other people's beliefs, so that maybe they'll give up their beliefs? You don't even want to spread your own beliefs, you just want to trample on other peoples beliefs. Okay. Pot calling the kettle black.......Pot calling the kettle black.