So lets start with the Bible. Where is the proof that Abraham or any of those people including Jesus even existed? If there was real proof, the Bible would be a history book instead dependent on "faith."

I have seen and heard so much crap and lies that I have become un-trusting of any so-called "authority" or "official story" of history or of the "news."

So since "Jewishness" and the state of Israel thrives on the idea that they are "God's chosen people" and with that, they have convinced the people of the world that they deserve to return to their homeland or the "promised land" I ask for proof and a complete investigation of the true lineage of the Jewish people.

I ask for indisputable proof of the existence of Abraham and all the characters having to do with that story including Jesus.

I believe the Bible is pure fiction and plagiarism. It has been discredited many times by many different people. Anyone who tries to insist that it is true history, I say bring forth your indisputable proof.

So in search for the truth of the tribal wars going on in this world today, I say to all Abrahamic religions, bring forth solid proof and stop puffing up about your "faith."

I am not asking anyone to prove or disprove the existence of a God. I want you to prove without any reasonable doubt that the information you base your beliefs on (the Bible) about Israel's right to have a so-called "Promised land" and the lineage of the Jewish people is true.

The only way to do that is to research without prejudice. First prove or disprove that Abraham, existed. Prove that Jesus, Mary, etc. actually existed.

I don't think you have a leg to stand on there. But you can start by learning the true lineage of the self styled Jewish nation of Israel.

Perhaps when we speak of acceptance and tolerance each of us has a different understanding of what acceptance and tolerance is. Msharmony, for example, gave her understanding of the terms and they are quite different than my own.

I had a feeling this was so, which is why I posed some questions about the words.

What do you think MyLife?

How would you define toerance and acceptance?

When would tolerance be more beneficial than acceptance or vis-a-vis?

In what cases would tolerance and acceptance be expected to have a reciprocal exchange?

I have absolutely no problem with people who want to believe in Christianity for themselves. That's perfectly fine with me. I respect that as being a valid way to show a desire to honor God and Life.

All I ask from the Christians is to give me the same respect. If I choose to worship God through a different spiritual picture, just acknowledge that my way is just as valid. I'm making a sincere effort to honor God and Life.

They don't need to actually believe like me. They can believe that my views of God are utterly absurd. That's fine with me. All I ask is that they respect that, for me, it's a valid way to worship God and Life.

Then we could all get alone, and in theory we could even worship side-by-side. Although in practice that would be highly impractical since our spiritual rituals are quite different and would not meld together very well in a single ceremony.

But the point is that we should both recognize that we are both doing our very best to worship "God" and Life. And that should be sufficient.

I personally don't even hold it against atheists for not believing in a God at all. As far as I'm concerned even that stance is an HONEST stance to take with an invisible God. At least the atheists are being HONEST with God by saying to God, "Hey, if you can't respect me well enough to show yourself, then why should I bother placing my faith in you?"

That's a valid point. Even as a spiritual person I sometimes feel that way about God. And to pretend that I don't would be DISHONEST.

Why should I be DISHONEST even with God?

Surely if here is a benevolent God it would want us to be HONEST with it at all times.

What kind of a God would expect people to be pretentious just out of fear that they might upset the God if they were honest with it?

If I can't be honest with God, then what value does honesty even have?

I honestly feel that the Hebrew picture of God is utterly absurd and totally without merit.

For me to pretend otherwise would be DISHONEST and pretentious.

It seems to me that God Herself would probably appreciate my honesty, but the Christians would have God hate me for being honest with Him.

And yes, I prefer to think of God in the feminine. Perhaps this is is only to spite the ancient Hebrews and their male-chauvinism.

I realize that the true spirit of God is totally genderless and not even physical at all. in truth, when I think of God in the deepest most spiritual way I think of God as an entity that is so abstract I can't even put it into language. And I love that God.

When I use a personified image to commune with God I typically use female archetypes. But not always. Jesus is even included in my spiritual pantheon. But he's usually hanging out with Buddha, Confucius and Lao Tzu, all of whom are in my spiritual pantheon.

I actually have a huge spiritual pantheon that contains many personified spirits. All of whom I view as actual facets of the ultimate cosmic consciousness that we call "God".

So whilst my spiritual pantheon may seem like a polytheism to the untrained observer, it's actually monotheism. One God.

Not that this is important. It's just the way that it is. That's all.

But no, I don't renounce Christians. I just don't buy into Christianity.

I pass no judgments on the followers of the religion. I'm sure they all mean well. I just reject the religion itself.

And they can do the same for me. Reject my religion FOR THEM, but recognize that it's right FOR ME.

Pass no judgments on my relationship with "GOD".

That's all I ask.

You can disbelieve in my actual religion all you want. I don't care if you think it's crazy and absurd. That's totally irrelevant to me.

Just don't tell me that I'm rejecting God, because that is a JUDGMENT passed directly on my spiritual relationship with God.

You respect my "religion" in this way, and I'll respect your "religion" in the same way.

I don't need to believe in your religion, and you don't need to believe in mine.

From my point of view that is 'acceptance' and 'tolerance'.

There was this thing called world war two where this leader of a country thought it would be a good idea to kill all the Jews. That is enough in itself.

And trust me, they milk that event to the max. And the details of how that happened have to do with Zionist and the campaign to force Jews to move to Israel.

But sorry, NO, that is not enough.

It does not explain everything. It does not add up.

So can you prove that Abraham existed? Can you or anyone prove that Jesus existed, prove that the Jews were even mentioned in the early Bibles?

P.S. Judeans are not Jews. Judaism did not even exist then. There is not a person in the whole English-speaking world today who regards a "Jew" as a "Judean" in the literal sense of the word.

In the time of Pontius Pilate in history there was no religious, racial or national group in Judea known as "Jews" nor had there been any group so identified anywhere else in the world prior to that time.

So-called or self-styled "Jews" in eastern Europe after the conversion of the Khazars the descendants of the Khazars converted to "Talmudism", or as it is now know "Judaism", by the 7th century mass conversion of the Khazar population.

The re-writing of the scriptures, the translation, and the creation of Christianity by the Catholic Church along the same lines as current paganism should be looked into.

It is all extremely complicated and if people would just reveal the truth (Catholic Church included) or seek the truth of history without trying to suppress it to protect their particular Abrahamic religion, then the truth will set us free.

I have a question.

Assuming you are correct. How would that change anything?

do you want to evict all the Jews from Israel then and give it to the Palestinians?

If so, you should be aware the Palestinians want the land for the same reason you are trying to discredit the Jews. If the Jews are made up, then so is the reason the Palestinians want Israel. They grew out of the Jewish faith as well.

Really what you are saying is that Christians, Jews and Muslims all would just give up their faith and surrender to ... what exactly?

So they all give up their faith. Are they to give up their lives as well?



Assuming you are right AND assuming everyone wholeheartedly embraces what you are saying, what is the purpose of it? What do you hope to change that will make your life better? What are you trying to sell here?

Assuming you are correct. How would that change anything?

do you want to evict all the Jews from Israel then and give it to the Palestinians?

If so, you should be aware the Palestinians want the land for the same reason you are trying to discredit the Jews. If the Jews are made up, then so is the reason the Palestinians want Israel. They grew out of the Jewish faith as well.

So they all give up their faith. Are they to give up their lives as well?

Assuming you are right AND assuming everyone wholeheartedly embraces what you are saying, what is the purpose of it? What do you hope to change that will make your life better? What are you trying to sell here?

It might stop people from waging war in the name of religion.
It might cause people to reevaluate their beliefs if they knew the truth.



Not at all. What I want is for America to bring our troops home from the Middle east and stop supporting Israel with billions of dollars.



Yes, they all want the Temple Mount, even the Christians. The temple mount is the key to the whole religious conflict.

I think they believe that their Messiah will return to that temple.

I'm not sure why the Muslims want the temple mount but it also has to do with their religion.

The temple mount is key.



Why should they give up their lives? Isn't knowing the truth better than living believing in lies?



I am seeking to reveal the historical truth and expose the lies. But my only goal is to try to get people to temporarily set aside their belief systems that are based on false information and actually INVESTIGATE into the true history of the world.

The conflict in the middle east is not just about religions and beliefs. It is about tribal conflicts, money, power and control.

Granted there are major religions involved and they all want possession of the temple mount. This is where they believe their God will return to them. This region is the cradle of the beginning of civilization.

Once the truth is known, people like the Rothchilds and the Warburgs who have been criminals and smugglers throughout history, will be exposed. I am not talking about a race or a religion. I am talking about a secret criminal organization that hides behind religion.

The entire lie can be taken apart with some real investigation into the lineage of the so-called Jews. Even the Jewish people don't know their own history or lineage.

Jesus Christ is the WAY, the TRUTH and the LIFE..

it is such a shame that the world would crucify YOU again if it were given a chance.. I love you Jesus. Thank you so much for what you have done for me..

If anyone ever asked me why I would believe such a story. I would say to them.. I had no other hope. And that YOU were there to guide me through. YOU comforted me in a time where there was no one. YOU stretched your arms way down low and pulled me out.. Taught me things that I would have never known.

And all you asked of me is that I have faith and believe that every Word of God is the absolute Truth.. And accept the fact that I dont have to understand it all.. What is revealed is mine and what is witheld is YOURS. And at the same time trust that it will all be revealed in YOUR time.. NOT mine.. There is an absolute TRUTH in this World and it is The Word of God... The very same Word that became flesh and dwelt amoung men.. JESUS CHRIST OUR LORD.

All scripture is God breathed and profitable for doctrine, reproof, correction and instructions in righteousness, that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped unto all good works

yea and that goes for Abraham.. The father of faith.. And if you have faith in Christ Jesus you are Abrahams descendant.. the family of the household of faith..

However you want to ascertain what may or may not be true is your own personal business.

msharmony, "For what ever reasons?" Don't gloss over the reasons. Most of the reasons are religion and politics they have been shaped by religions.

When it comes to world politics I think people should take a good look at themselves and what they believe before they follow their leaders orders to slaughter their neighbor in the name of some (unproven-fake) religious belief.

If it is unproven and unverified, then it is unjustified and false.
Don't be lead into darkness, murder and death by having faith in false information and false doctrine.

The Abrahamic religions all stem from the same lie. And they all have been twisted into something that causes them to slaughter each other. How much sense does that make? How do you know for sure yours is true? Where is your proof?

Don't you think your enemy is as sure as you are that he is right? Of course he is. Does that make any sense?

However you want to ascertain what may or may not be true is your own personal business.

msharmony, "For what ever reasons?" Don't gloss over the reasons. Most of the reasons are religion and politics they have been shaped by religions.

When it comes to world politics I think people should take a good look at themselves and what they believe before they follow their leaders orders to slaughter their neighbor in the name of some (unproven-fake) religious belief.

If it is unproven and unverified, then it is unjustified and false.
Don't be lead into darkness, murder and death by having faith in false information and false doctrine.

The Abrahamic religions all stem from the same lie. And they all have been twisted into something that causes them to slaughter each other. How much sense does that make? How do you know for sure yours is true? Where is your proof?

Don't you think your enemy is as sure as you are that he is right? Of course he is. Does that make any sense?

The Abrahamic religions all stem from the same lie. And they all have been twisted into something that causes them to slaughter each other.

being unproven or unjustified doesnt make something false,,

the truth is the truth, regardless of whether it is proven true or justified,

but the truth wont change, only what people BELIEVE to be true..

You have slightly misquoted or misrepresented what I have said.

I said:
If it is unproven and unverified, then it is unjustified and false. (I am talking about the INFORMATION.)

Reworded:
So, if the information is unproven, unsupported by evidence, unverified, then the belief resulting from the information is unjustified and can be considered false.

It could be proven false with more investigation, but it is not necessary to prove it false to consider it false because there is no evidence to support it. It can be assumed false.

I also stated that however YOU(anyone) want to ascertain what MAY or MAY NOT be true is your(anyone's) own personal business. (And NONE of my business.)



Here again you have misrepresented what I said.

(The "truth" is not "unjustified.")

THE BELIEF is unjustified if it is supported by false information.
If the INFORMATION has no credible support or evidence to back up the claim, then the belief that follows is unjustified.

It is only "faith" in the authority that states it. Authorities like science usually have evidence to back up their theories or claims, but the Bible has no such credible evidence for most of the narrative stories or characters in them.



It is what people believe to be true that will change when they resolve to ask for credible evidence and proof where it is needed.

I have personally stopped accepting (believing) such claims that do not have credible evidence (proof) to support them.

I believe that the world is in a critical state of unrest and most of that unrest is because of the untruths we have been given and the beliefs we (people of the world) have twisted into these religions.

Jesus Christ is the WAY, the TRUTH and the LIFE..

it is such a shame that the world would crucify YOU again if it were given a chance.. I love you Jesus. Thank you so much for what you have done for me..

information is not FALSE because it hasnt been proven, information is FALSE if it is DISPROVEN

I am not basing my faith on FALSE information, for indeed if I did know the information to be 'false', I would necessarily no longer believe it either,,,

something cannot be false and true at the same time, and if the TRUTH must have evidence to support its truth, a LIE (falsehood) must likewise have evidence to prove it is false.

If Im on a witness stand and testify to having locked myself out of my house, and it is true,, it will be the truth whether or not I am ever able to provide 'proof' to an observer that I was locked out. IT will not be able to be FALSE information if it is the truth.