Jeanniebean leans out the window and screams:



Jrboogie asks:





>>We're just having a discussion..<< (LOL you sound like Cowboy.)

I'm not angry at anyone in particular or personally. I'm basically angry at the lie and the people who know it is a lie, and yet keep it to themselves.

So many people believe things that have no basis in reality and no credible evidence supporting it, and they have the audacity to scold,judge and attack me personally because I challenge their information and ask them for evidence. Something that makes sense.

I want 'believable evidence." Not propaganda or fables.

I'm not even angry at people who spew nonsense like:

"..and that includes tarrot cards that you read to others,through your self,(it proves you believe in the devils work ,darkness,because thats what it is,did you know the devil himself when you come against GOD ALMIGHTY..."

What I may or may not believe in (or why) is not really the issue. I may have attempted to "sell it" in the past, but I do believe I have changed.



I do not say "believe as I believe or else" or anything similar. -If I have please point it out to me and I will apologize and change my evil ways.

I also don't want to get into a long discussion about what it takes to 'prove' something to someone else, and although I use the term "proof" (for convenience) I also ask for(at least) some "credible evidence" to look at and examine if they want me to consider their claims.

I have also been told that I have no business in the Science forum, and I have mentioned that there really is no forum for me on this club. (No matter where I post I am "in the wrong forum" according to someone.)

Looking at the world as a whole I detect a society largely manipulated by lies and propaganda using religious ridiculi. (That's a new word I made up.)

Ridiculi : Noun: meaning ridiculous inaccurate information.

My conclusion is that someone or some Elite group is manipulating people with ridiculi for their own gain.

I am angry at them. I want people to ask for evidence of THEIR claims and discredit their ridiculi.



I will start.

Call it the movement against ridiculi.

I will ask for evidence when someone tells me that something is "truth."

I will expect the same in return.

(If anyone is truly interested in what I believe I will certainly share it with them, but I am not trying to manipulate or rule the world with what I believe, so what I believe or why is not really important in the scheme of things.)

I'm not looking for converts, I'm looking for truth.

I have to ask for evidence. Its a requirement of the movement to rid the world of ridiculi.

Anymore questions?

I've got one Jb.

What would constitute adequate evidence for a truth claim?

For evidence of the Biblical story of King David and others I would love to see some unbiased archaeological evidence from as many different sources as possible.

By "unbiased" I mean from scientific, historic, archaeological, investigators who have no agenda or are not being financed by anyone with an agenda who are paying them to produce a biased report.

Therefore the investigator would have to be investigated, and the person paying him would also be examined for motive and agenda.

I would not want a person who is a strong atheist trying to disprove God or religion any more than I would want a person who is a true believer who seeks to prove his claims.

Unbiased, scientific, archaeological evidence.

If that is not possible, set up a team of a mixture of people who can balance the playing field, but they must be sincerely in search of truth, not trying to prove or disprove a claim or belief.

I think that we agree here. There is no such a thing as a completely "unbiased" investigator, Jb. Therefore we cannot ask for something that is impossible. Facts are unbiased. However, putting the facts together requires a subject. Subjects are necessarily biased. So, the best we can hope for is to have an investigator who has little to no emotional/professional attachment to the possible outcome - no matter which way it turns out.

Agreed?

If so, what kind of "hard" evidence would be necessary/adequate in order to prove that King David did not exist? Likewise, if we prove his existence beyond a reasonable doubt, does that and that alone prove that everything said/written about him, or attributed to him rings true?

There's nothing wrong with consequentially proving or disproving a belief. I must ask though, how could one possibly go out with the intentions of verifying or falsifying the Bible without trying to prove or disprove a claim or belief?

I'm confused.

Yes. A person who has no emotional or professional attachment to the outcome or conclusions would be perfect. A rare thing to find though. So a team would be better.




#1, A: Good question. (Proving that someone did not exist might be more difficult than proving that someone did exist.) If there is ample evidence for many prominent important characters (Kings, etc.) of the past, but none about King David, that does not actually prove that he did not exist, it only implies that he "probably" did not exist.

Adequate evidence that he did not exist, for me, might be if they found archaeological (not just scriptural) evidence of all or most of the other Kings of that time period in that region (and their families) but absolutely none for King David, Abraham etc.

Adequate evidence that he did exist would be to find archaeological verified, dated evidence (tablets in that time period etc.) that also included evidence of his reign, his family, etc. There should be a lot of evidence if he did exist, but if none is found it can be safely assumed, that he did not exist.




Of course not. Each claim must stand on its own. But first thing's first. Prove he existed.

it just so funny how the pyramids and all the evidence that shows of the egyptian rulers and who they dealt with is found,hell even the persian temples and burials of high ruling ranks can be found,documents,inscriptions,that 100% show accuracy that they did exist...blah blah blah.

though not any actual proof can be found that moses,noah,jesus,god,king david,well solomon couldn't exist if david didn't..etc,100% accurately existed.. hell noone even really knows where jesus was laid to rest before he supposively rose from the dead.theres bits and pieces but nothing solid and these people are equal if not more well known than the persians and egyptians elite.hell look at all the proof that the roman empire existed and jesus was around when it was.

I stand corrected.

If there is a team involved, there should be some looking to prove, and some trying to disprove the claim, but all should put finding truth above that agenda.

That is my point exactly.

This is my own evaluation of the over all situation in the Middle east.

Iraq and Egypt and other places there have tons of archaeological evidence of many things that a lot of people do not want known. The temple mount, the pyramids, and probably sites in Iraq we don't even know of.

This area is the cradle of humanity. It holds the evidence, and that evidence is being destroyed and hidden by the people who do not want their lies to be exposed. I don't think the disputes are about land. There is tons of land in Africa, Alaska, and South America. But all the major conflicts of the world have mostly centered in the Middle east.

They are hiding the truth, destroying the evidence.

Do you have any unbiased facts compiled by a balanced team of archeologists to support this conspiricy theory?

The facts, to me at least, show that he who controls the money controls the people in a capitalist scheme. I think that it has nothing to do with religion. Religion is a tool used to emotionally motivate and influence people's opinions, as well as an easy means for regular people to make sense of things, and perhaps give themselves a goal, purpose, and/or hope for a better future.

No. And I would not call it a "conspiracy theory." It is my overall evaluation of the Middle east area and situation. It has been called "The cradle of civilization."



I totally agree with you on that too.




Oh it has everything to do with religion and belief systems. Yes, religions are used as a tool to emotionally motivate and influence people's opinions.

That "tool" was created for that purpose.

The both of those reasons are intricately intertwined.

Expose the ridiculi, and you find the truth.




Ridiculi : Noun: meaning ridiculous inaccurate information.

Here is some of the super hidden evidence in various states of excavation...



http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Archaeology/archtoc.html

6,000 Year Old Cemetery
Adullam
Akko: The Maritime Capital of the Crusader Kingdom
Akeldama, From the Diaspora to Jerusalem
Ancient Arad
Ancient Byzantine Church discovered in Tiberias
Ancient Inscription of Alphabet Discovered Near Jerusalem
Ancient Jewish Coins
Ancient Jewish Site from United Kingdom Period Discovered at Kana
Ancient Mosaic Recovered from Palestinian Thieves
The Ancient Synagogue at Bar’am
Antiquities in Kfar Kana
Apollonia-Arsuf
Arad
Ararat
Arbel: Ancient Synagogue
Arbel [Encyclopaedia Judaica]
Archaeological Analysis Proves Hasmonean Rule Extended to Negev Highlands
Archaeological Excavations in Israel (2011)
Archaeological Sites in Israel — An Introduction
Archaeologists May Have Found Evidence of Goliath
Archaeologists Uncover the “Oldest Church” in Israel
Archaeology
Archeology - 21st Century Style
Archaeology of Jerusalem
Athlit
Avdat: A Nabatean City in the Negev
Avedat [Encyclopaedia Judaica]
Banyas: Cult Center of the God Pan
Banias [Encyclopaedia Judaica]
Be’er Shema - The Church of St. Stephen
Be’er Sheva: Prehistoric Dwelling Sites
Beersheba — the Southern Border of the Kingdom of Judah
Beit Alpha
Beit Govrin - A Roman Amphitheater
Beit She’an
Bet She'an (Virtual Israel Experience)
Bet(H)-Shean [Encyclopaedia Judaica]
Beit Shemesh: Biblical City on the Border Between Judah and Philistia
Belvoir: A Crusader Fortress Overlooking the Jordan Valley
Bet She’arim: The Jewish Necropolis of the Roman Period
Bethsaida
Bethsaida [Encyclopaedia Judaica]
Byzantine Churches in the Negev
Caesarea
Capernaum
The Carmel Caves: Dwellings of Prehistoric Man
Cave of the Treasure
Chorazin
Chorazin [Encyclopaedia Judaica]
Church of John the Baptist Discovered
The Church of the House of Peter
The Church of the Seat of Mary (Kathisma)
Coin of Jesus Found in Ancient Tiberias Excavation
Crusader Fortress of Tiberias
Dan: The Biblical City
Dan [Encyclopaedia Judaica]
The Dead Sea Scrolls
The Eilat Region
Ein Gedi: An Ancient Oasis Settlement
Ein Hazeva
Ein Hatzeva: An Israelite Fortress on the Border with Edom
Ekron: A Philistine City
Fishing Boat from Migdal
Gamla: Jewish City on the Golan
Gezer
Gezer Calendar
Golan - A Unique Chalcolithic Culture
Golan Dolmens
The Golan: Rogem Hiri
The Greek Orthodox Church of the Seven Apostles
Haifa University Archeologist Uncovers World’s Oldest Bedding
Hamat Gader: Baths of Medicinal Hot Springs
Hatzor
Herodian: King Herod’s Palace - Fortress
Herod the Great’s Tomb Discovered
Horbat Omrit
Jaffa: Horse Skeletons
Jericho - The Winter Palace of King Herod
Kadesh
Kastra: An Ancient Bread Seal
Katzrin
Kh. Tinshemet
Khirbet Sufa
Kiryat Sefer
Kursi: Christian Monastery on the Shore of the Sea of Galilee
Lachish: Royal City of the Kingdom of Judah
Lachish [Encyclopaedia Judaica]
Maresha: A Hellenistic Measuring Table
Masada: Desert Fortress Overlooking the Dead Sea
Papyri
Megiddo - The Solomonic Chariot City
IAA Recommends Moving Megiddo Prison
Israel Postal Authority: Megiddo Prison (Legio)
Megiddo Prison to be Transferred
The Monastery of Martyrius
Nag Hammadi Codices
Nahal Be’er Sheva
Nahal Refaiim: Caananite Bronze Age Villages near Jerusalem
Nazareth
Excavation Discovers Remains of Building from Time of Jesus
Nazareth [Encyclopaedia Judaica]
Nebi Samwil
The Nimrod Fortress: Muslim Stronghold in the Golan
Nizzanah
Numismatics
Palestine Exploration Fund
Palestinian, Israeli Scholarly Teams Preserve Shared Heritage Sites
Palmahim: A 6000 Year Old Cemetery is Exposed in Excavations
Pekiin: A Karstic Cave
Qumran
The Ram of Atlit
Ramat Rahel
Ramla: Arab Capital of the Province of Palestine
Ramla Excavations: Gold & Silver Bracelets
Rare Crusader Coin Found in Jafa Flea Market
Recent Archeological Discoveries (1999)
Recent Archeological Discoveries (2003)
Remains Found of Settlement in Kana
The Rockefeller Museum
Rogem Hiri: An Ancient Mysterious Construction
The Roman Boat from the Sea of Galilee
Sha’ar Hagolan: A Neolithic Village
Shechem (Nablus)
The Shoham Bypass Site
The Synagogue at Capernaum
Tabgha: Church of the Multiplication of the Loaves and the Fishes
Tel Ashdod Excavation
Tel Burga
Tel Dor
Tel Hadid
Tel Qasile
Tel Shilo
Tell en-Nabeh
Tiberias: The Anchor Church
Tiberias Excavations: Galei Kinneret Hotel
Timna: Valley of the Ancient Copper Mines
Top Archaeological Discoveries in Israel
Underwater Exploration Along Israel’s Mediterranean Coast
The Western Wall Tunnels
2,000 Year Old Mikveh in Western Wall Tunnels
The Yavneh-Yam Project
Yodefat
Zippori
The Glass from Sepphoris
The Zippori Reservoir




Israel has been great at preserving carefully archaeological
evidence of all sorts. At least they don't destroy or hide
any artifacts!

All of the Egyptian and Iraqi sites and everywhere else...

Now here is some real destruction of historical artifacts:

Destruction and Desecration of Religious Sites

Upon its capture by the Arab Legion, the Jewish Quarter of the Old City was destroyed and its residents expelled. Fifty-eight synagogues--some hundreds of years old--were destroyed, their contents looted and desecrated. Some Jewish religious sites were turned into chicken coops or animal stalls. The Jewish cemetery on the Mount of Olives, where Jews had been burying their dead for over 2500 years, was ransacked; graves were desecrated; thousands of tombstones were smashed and used as building material, paving stones or for latrines in Arab Legion army camps. The Intercontinental Hotel was built on top of the cemetery and graves were demolished to make way for a highway to the hotel. The Western Wall became a slum area.
Jordan’s Illegal Annexation

In 1950, Jordan annexed the territories it had captured in the 1948 war–-eastern Jerusalem and the West Bank. The April 24th resolution declared “its support for complete unity between the two sides of the Jordan and their union into one State, which is the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan, at whose head reigns King Abdullah Ibn al Husain...”

While Great Britain and Pakistan were the only countries that recognized Jordan’s annexation – all other nations, including the Arab states, rejected it...

http://www.sixdaywar.org/content/jordanianocuupationjerusalem.asp

and

Published on Thursday, March 1, 2001 by Agence France Presse

Afghan Taliban Begin Destruction of Ancient Buddha Statues

KABUL - Ignoring an international outcry, Afghanistan's puritanical Taliban Islamic militia began demolishing statues across the country on Thursday, including two towering ancient stone Buddhas.

Taliban Minister of Information and Culture Qudratullah Jamal told AFP the destruction of scores of pre-Islamic figures, designed to stop the worshipping of "false idols," had begun throughout the country.

Bhudda
Undated photo of the world's tallest statue of Bhudda measuring 53 meters (175 feet) in Bamiyan, 125 kilometers (90 miles) west of Kabul in Afghanistan. Supreme Commander of the Taliban Mullah Mohammad Omar had ordered the destruction of all statues in Afghanistan, including the centuries-old Buddha in Bamiyan, and armed Taliban troops fanned out across the country Thursday to implement the supreme leader's order. (AP Photo)

He said militiamen started wrecking the almost 2,000-year-old Buddhist masterpieces in the central province of Bamiyan, including the world's tallest standing Buddha measuring 50 meters (165 feet), after sunrise.

"The work started about five hours ago but I do not know how much of it (the two Bamiyan Buddhas) has been destroyed," Jamal said. "It will be destroyed by every means. All the statues are being destroyed."

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines01/0301-04.htm

Ridiculi : Noun: meaning ridiculous inaccurate information.

Ridiculi : Noun: meaning ridiculous inaccurate information.

Just keep denying real scholarship and promoting fake conspiracy
theories...

I don't know JB. It seems a rather negative view to hold...

I think that at one time religion was a necessary tool not devised for the purpose of controlling people, but rather necessary for ancient humans to make sense of the things that were not understood. It seems more reasonable to say that prior to using religion to control people, the controlling party would have to somehow deny the tenets of the religion, unless it somehow supported that purpose.

In todays day and age, there are many who do use religion and religious belief in order to manipulate people's thinking. However, it seems very unreasonable to hold that the sole purpose of it was to do such a thing. That casts unwarranted doubt upon the integrity of the leaders in any and all civilizations prior to the rise of non-belief. I am certain that there have been, and still are leaders of this world who think about and progress towards a better humanity over-all. Those who do not use people as a sole means to an end, but rather place the overall good of humanity as the end in itself.

It is a broad and temporary impression not a hard core "view" or 'theory.'

One may have to take off their rose colored glasses to see the truth.

We know now how Christianity was created and designed by the Roman Catholic Church and how they designed it around (and with) pagan ideas to attract a large amount of people. Originally Rome was anti-Christian and persecuted Christians.

If the truth seems "negative" to people then perhaps they should not genuinely or seriously seek the truth.





I don't disagree with that but it is time to come out of the dark ages don't you think? We are not "ancient" humans anymore.




Yes they would. That is why I think the lie was intentional. The Romans and the Roman Catholic Church did not worship Jesus, until they redesigned Christianity in order to create a religion that they could be the head of and in control of.

There is money and power in religion.



No it is not unreasonable at all. The Romans did it. The Catholic Church is still doing it.



The doubt of the integrity of the leaders in any and all civilizations is not "unwarranted" at all in my opinion.

People should question and ask for evidence of what they are being told.




I'm sure there are some who believe that "the means justifies the end."

I'm sure that they believe that they are acting in the best interest of humanity when they do ethnic cleansing too.