You still at this, Jeannie? You go girl!

The first example is not an opinion though, which is how most people here discuss against Christianity and or other beliefs. And yes I know i've wronged there to, wasn't pointing fingers claiming I was all perfect. Was just brining this up for both sides. Thought I'd bring this up just so we could all have a civil "discussion" rather then a debate. Again, this was brought up for both sides, not just the ones whom speak against Christianity.

Very interesting points of view. Let me offer another.

As Christians, we learn that the best way to have someone be interested in Christianity is to be Christ-like. They have to see Christ in you, and see that you have something they do not. Then, they ask you something like, "What's your secret?" And then you, as a Christian, should ask if they are open to having a conversation about Christ. If they are, then you proceed with talking about Christ. If not, then you, as a Christian, are doing your role. That is, we can't force people to become Christian.

Since I started this post, three people have e-mailed me, and we have had some pretty good conversations about Christ.

Hope this helps,
Shiki

thats aweseom, great post

That would indeed be nice.

I have yet to meet a Christian that has impressed me as having something that I do not in have in a spiritual sense. So I can't imagine ever asking them what their "secret" is.

So if they wait for that, we'll be in great shape!

Hope this helps,
Abracadabra

Hey, Abracadabra:

I am intrigued by what you write when you say, "I have yet to meet a Christian that has impressed me as having something that I do not in have in a spiritual sense."

Are you saying that you are complete spiritually or that you are incomplete, but don't see anything in any Christians that would complete you in that area?

Yes, as far as I'm concerned I'm as "complete" spiritually as it is possible to be whilst retaining the human form. Absolutely.

Now this may not measure up to "your expectations or definitions" of what is required for "complete spirituality", but that's irrelevant to me.

I've been studying the concept of spirituality for many years. Well, basically my entire life since a quite young age. I was even an innately spiritual child before my mind was contaminated by religions dogma (and I have no problem with calling it such).

After having studied many religions and the concepts that they seem to associate with "Spiritual Enlightenment" I have come to the conclusion that I must be as spiritually complete as a human can possibly be. And I probably have been since very early childhood.

Do I fear death? No, and I never have.

Do I have peace of mind? Yes, and I always have.

Do I feel incomplete in any way? No, and I never have.

Do I feel alone? No, and I never have.

Am I at peace with myself and my environment? Yes.

What's missing? I certainly don't feel that anything's missing.

So what could any Christian have that I don't already have in terms of spirituality?

Interesting. I'm a Christian and I'm not complete spiritually. I'm always striving to grow in wisdom. Even Jesus grew in wisdom. I think that when we say we are complete, we do not allow ourselves the possibility to grow or improve.

If you are the best you can be in the present moment, you are complete.




There is a difference in being complete and being finished...growing.

I personally don't equate wisdom to spirituality. Like I said earlier, our definitions of what constitutes "compete spirituality" may differ.

I've never read anywhere in my studies that implied that wisdom and spirituality are one in the same thing.

By the way, you're treading very dangerous ground as a Christian suggesting that Jesus grew in wisdom. That would imply that the wisdom of Jesus was incomplete and thus potentially fallible.

complete, finished


its all about perception

it can actually be considered a biblical concept

And Jesus grew in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and men (Luke 2:52)

Exactly.

Besides I thought Shiki's original theme was that Christians are supposed to have something that other people don't have.

Well, if Christians are constantly "growing" in their spirituality then clearly all Christians are at different stages in there spiritual "growth". So why would they automatically assume that they are "Superior" to non-Christians in terms of their spiritual growth?

The idea that was originally being presented was the I should see something in Christians that I'm lacking.

Bottom line is that I don't. And if they are still groping around and stumbling and falling in their spiritual "growth" why would I want to be like that?

I'm happy with my spirituality.

I'm READY to meet my maker.

How much better prepared can a person be than that in a spiritual sense?

I have no fear of being "judged".

In fact, according to the Christian Christ I won't be judged at all.


Luke.6:37 Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:

These are supposedly the word of Jesus.

Well, I judge not. Thus according to Jesus I will not be judged. So I expect the gates of heaven will automatically open like the doors at a Wal-Mart Supercenter when I arrive at heaven. No questions will even be asked. I will not be judged at all.

I condemn no one. According to the Christian Jesus I will not be condemned.

I forgive everyone. According to the Christian Jesus I will be forgiven.

So where is there a problem?

Christians should strive to be like me! Not the other way around.

truly, people should strive to be their best and there is no harm in immitating or emulating 'good' things about other people that are at a place you are trying to reach,

it has little to do with whether those people are christian or not


much like a jogger may be asked how he keeps in such good shape, even though joggers are not the only people in good shape


occasionally, a christian might display an inner peace and joy about them that causes others to ask how they maintain it,,, it has nothing to do with them being SUPERIOR because they are christian, its just what is working for THEM that MAY also work for someone else

Well, I agree with this. I'm sure there are individual Christians who are indeed in harmony with the "Holy Spirit" or creative force of all life.

And the same thing could be true of a Wiccan, or a Buddhist, or anyone really. In fact, even an atheist could be in harmony with the spirit of the cosmos and not even think of this in terms of "spirituality". All they know is that they are in harmony with life and that they have peace of mind.

It is easy to be christ-like. Everyone is christ like. It is in fact impossible to not be like christ.

You see, god created man in His own image. Christ is god. So if you are a man, you are ab ovo and pro quid isqua tepse a man, so you are the image of god, and therefore you are the image of christ, and it is impossible to be the image of christ and not be christ like.

You can say that too to people who ask you what's your secret.

There is no secret. There is only ignorance. Two-way ignorance, peppered with some inconclusional logicless lazy thinking.

You could be right, and true, but logically there are some problems. You made some invalid and incorrect inference.

If you want to go to heaven, you have to be judged and be found good and worthy of heaven. Of course you can be judged to be wicked, and then you go to hell.

But to go to either of these two places, you need, you absolutely must, be judged first. No judgement, no passage either way.

If you don't judge, you won't be judged, so the Kingdom of Heaven will be forever inaccessible to you as a primary residence.

Yea except there is nothing Christians have that others do not so if a person sees that, the person actually has low self esteem and is in need of counseling not religion.

No "CHRISTIANITY" has nothing to offer outside of what other "beliefs" offer. But Jesus does. Jesus offers eternal life in a paradise built for each and everyone of us.

no, christians cant possibly have anything about them that someone else should find admirable or strive to have in themself


how preposterous would it be for any of us to think someone else can actually TEACH us something that might enlighten our spirit or soul and not just our mind,,,