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Topic: Koch Brothers Behind Wisconsin Effort To Kill Public Unions
Fanta46's photo
Sat 02/19/11 08:06 PM
As the nation focuses on the efforts of Governor Scott Walker to take away collective bargaining rights from public employees in Wisconsin, new information is coming to light that reveals what is truly going on here.

Mother Jones is reporting that much of the funding behind the Walker for Governor campaign came from none other than uber-conservatives, the infamous Koch Brothers.

What’s more, the plan to kill the unions is right out of the Koch Brothers play book.

Koch-backed groups like Americans for Prosperity, the Cato Institute, the Competitive Enterprise Institute, and the Reason Foundation have long taken a very antagonistic view toward public-sector unions. Several of these groups have urged the eradication of these unions. The Kochs also invited Mark Mix, president of the National Right to Work Legal Defense Foundation, an anti-union outfit, to a June 2010 confab in Aspen, Colorado;

Via Mother Jones

If you are reluctant to believe that this is a coordinated attack, consider this-

This afternoon, Marty Beil, executive director of the Wisconsin Public Workers Union, sent a message to the Governor’s office agreeing to the cuts to pension & welfare benefits sought by Walker in his bill. The governor’s response was “nothing doing.” He wants the whole kit and kaboodle – the end of the collective bargaining rights of the public unions.

As noted in my earlier post, this is, indeed, the first shot in the final battle to end unionism in America.

UPDATE: The Americans for Prosperity group, a Tea Party group that is a Koch Brothers front, has put up a website and petition called www.standwithwalker.com. The website attacks all collective bargaining – not just for public employees’ unions. Americans for Prosperity is also organizing a rally tomorrow in Wisconsin to support Gov. Walker.

Why are the Koch Brothers so interested in Wisconsin? They are a major business player in the state.

This from Think Progress:

Koch owns a coal company subsidiary with facilities in Green Bay, Manitowoc, Ashland and Sheboygan; six timber plants throughout the state; and a large network of pipelines in Wisconsin. While Koch controls much of the infrastructure in the state, they have laid off workers to boost profits. At a time when Koch Industries owners David and Charles Koch awarded themselves an extra $11 billion of income from the company, Koch slashed jobs at their Green Bay plant:

Officials at Georgia-Pacific said the company is laying off 158 workers at its Day Street plant because out-of-date equipment at the facility is being replaced with newer, more-efficient equipment. The company said much of the new, papermaking equipment will be automated. [...] Malach tells FOX 11 that the layoffs are not because of a drop in demand. In fact, Malach said demand is high for the bath tissue and napkins manufactured at the plant.

You really have to wonder how long it will take for Tea Party devotees to realize just how badly they are being used.

http://blogs.forbes.com/rickungar/2011/02/18/koch-brothers-behind-wisconsin-effort-to-kill-public-unions/

Fanta46's photo
Sat 02/19/11 08:17 PM

You really have to wonder how long it will take for Tea Party devotees to realize just how badly they are being used.


Denial is futile.
If you support the Tea Party,
You are a participant in the death of the American Dream.

InvictusV's photo
Sun 02/20/11 06:03 AM


You really have to wonder how long it will take for Tea Party devotees to realize just how badly they are being used.


Denial is futile.
If you support the Tea Party,
You are a participant in the death of the American Dream.



LMAO...

The progressive nanny state approach has failed. It is not sustainable.

How many examples of it do you need to see before you unhitch your horse from a failed system?

The people have spoken and the days of propping up the nanny state for the few, with the tax dollars of others... is OVER!!!!




AdventureBegins's photo
Sun 02/20/11 08:22 AM


You really have to wonder how long it will take for Tea Party devotees to realize just how badly they are being used.


Denial is futile.
If you support the Tea Party,
You are a participant in the death of the American Dream.

Aye so then everybody that is standing up against the Unions is fooled...

Yet you fail to see the fooling of the Union members themselves...

They use the 1st Ammendment right which allready exists to 'collective bargain' and redress percieved grievanceas...

While paying a Union to make sure another 'law' to allow them to so 'bargin' is kept on the books...

Futile is paying to pursue something you allready have... On the mistaken impression that you still need it... and that someone who cares only for their political 'power' will actually care what happens to you.

Bestinshow's photo
Sun 02/20/11 09:20 AM



You really have to wonder how long it will take for Tea Party devotees to realize just how badly they are being used.


Denial is futile.
If you support the Tea Party,
You are a participant in the death of the American Dream.



LMAO...

The progressive nanny state approach has failed. It is not sustainable.

How many examples of it do you need to see before you unhitch your horse from a failed system?

The people have spoken and the days of propping up the nanny state for the few, with the tax dollars of others... is OVER!!!!




Every state has failed at this point, except of course Chineas brand of communist totalitarianism. Its pretty obviouse to me why our nation is failing. The republicans ran this country right into the ground, cut taxes start wars bankrupt the treasury and then say the system is broken. While the country goes down the tubes we have poor people singing praises for wallmart shopping and dollar store discounts. Yep we are getting pretty much what we deserve.

heavenlyboy34's photo
Sun 02/20/11 09:28 AM
Edited by heavenlyboy34 on Sun 02/20/11 09:29 AM




You really have to wonder how long it will take for Tea Party devotees to realize just how badly they are being used.


Denial is futile.
If you support the Tea Party,
You are a participant in the death of the American Dream.



LMAO...

The progressive nanny state approach has failed. It is not sustainable.

How many examples of it do you need to see before you unhitch your horse from a failed system?

The people have spoken and the days of propping up the nanny state for the few, with the tax dollars of others... is OVER!!!!




Every state has failed at this point, except of course Chineas brand of communist totalitarianism. Its pretty obviouse to me why our nation is failing. The republicans ran this country right into the ground, cut taxes start wars bankrupt the treasury and then say the system is broken. While the country goes down the tubes we have poor people singing praises for wallmart shopping and dollar store discounts. Yep we are getting pretty much what we deserve.


You do realize that China has embraced market capitalism, yes? Though they aren't laissez-faire, they are far more capitalist than the US is at this point. The republicans' tax cut wasn't significant enough to actually put a dent in the debt or spending, so I don't see why you're complaining about that. What do you have against dollar discount stores? They exist to serve a segment of the population that demands affordable goods. Should they have nothing at all? Simply giving away goodies and welfare won't work, because it will undermine(debase) the currency, drive up prices, and hurt the poor more than the rich anyway.

It is true that the Repubs are good at starting stupid, pointless wars and promoting crony capitalism/fascism, but so are the dems.

AdventureBegins's photo
Sun 02/20/11 11:15 AM
Is it?

American deaths attritubital to a political party going to war...

Republican party initiated war - approximately 400,000.

Democratic party initiated war - approximately 600,000.

Since the founding of our nation... Excluding times in which other than the Republican or Democratic party controlled the country or Presidency.

Bestinshow's photo
Sun 02/20/11 01:22 PM

Is it?

American deaths attritubital to a political party going to war...

Republican party initiated war - approximately 400,000.

Democratic party initiated war - approximately 600,000.

Since the founding of our nation... Excluding times in which other than the Republican or Democratic party controlled the country or Presidency.
I am talking current events here. The republicans cut taxes on everyone with the rich benefiting the most, then started a war, bankrupted the treasury and now claims the system is broke and needs drastic changes. Americans are rubes.

heavenlyboy34's photo
Sun 02/20/11 01:59 PM


Is it?

American deaths attritubital to a political party going to war...

Republican party initiated war - approximately 400,000.

Democratic party initiated war - approximately 600,000.

Since the founding of our nation... Excluding times in which other than the Republican or Democratic party controlled the country or Presidency.
I am talking current events here. The republicans cut taxes on everyone with the rich benefiting the most, then started a war, bankrupted the treasury and now claims the system is broke and needs drastic changes. Americans are rubes.

There's more than enough blame to go around on that. Besides, the dems had plenty of opportunity to end the stupid war, but didn't-they're profiteering on it just as much as the Republicans. The treasury's been bankrupt for decades. The primary things that have been propping up the economy for all these years are dollar hegemony (which is slowly coming to an end), insane inflation (which is coming back to bite us big time), and loans from foreigners (which could well dry up if the regime continues on its current spending trajectory).

Bestinshow's photo
Sun 02/20/11 02:08 PM



Is it?

American deaths attritubital to a political party going to war...

Republican party initiated war - approximately 400,000.

Democratic party initiated war - approximately 600,000.

Since the founding of our nation... Excluding times in which other than the Republican or Democratic party controlled the country or Presidency.
I am talking current events here. The republicans cut taxes on everyone with the rich benefiting the most, then started a war, bankrupted the treasury and now claims the system is broke and needs drastic changes. Americans are rubes.

There's more than enough blame to go around on that. Besides, the dems had plenty of opportunity to end the stupid war, but didn't-they're profiteering on it just as much as the Republicans. The treasury's been bankrupt for decades. The primary things that have been propping up the economy for all these years are dollar hegemony (which is slowly coming to an end), insane inflation (which is coming back to bite us big time), and loans from foreigners (which could well dry up if the regime continues on its current spending trajectory).
Its much harder to get out of war once its started. The trick is never to go in unless we have to. I can imagine the right wing howling if we did pull out, how Obama betrayed the sacrafices of those who died there blah blah. But yes both parties are sold out to the economic elites for the most part.

Recall the tax cuts and how it was supposed to improve the economy as we got trickled down on, didnt happen.

So now we are in debt, no big suprise eh?

heavenlyboy34's photo
Sun 02/20/11 02:43 PM
Edited by heavenlyboy34 on Sun 02/20/11 02:52 PM




Is it?

American deaths attritubital to a political party going to war...

Republican party initiated war - approximately 400,000.

Democratic party initiated war - approximately 600,000.

Since the founding of our nation... Excluding times in which other than the Republican or Democratic party controlled the country or Presidency.
I am talking current events here. The republicans cut taxes on everyone with the rich benefiting the most, then started a war, bankrupted the treasury and now claims the system is broke and needs drastic changes. Americans are rubes.

There's more than enough blame to go around on that. Besides, the dems had plenty of opportunity to end the stupid war, but didn't-they're profiteering on it just as much as the Republicans. The treasury's been bankrupt for decades. The primary things that have been propping up the economy for all these years are dollar hegemony (which is slowly coming to an end), insane inflation (which is coming back to bite us big time), and loans from foreigners (which could well dry up if the regime continues on its current spending trajectory).
Its much harder to get out of war once its started. The trick is never to go in unless we have to. I can imagine the right wing howling if we did pull out, how Obama betrayed the sacrafices of those who died there blah blah. But yes both parties are sold out to the economic elites for the most part.

Recall the tax cuts and how it was supposed to improve the economy as we got trickled down on, didnt happen.

So now we are in debt, no big suprise eh?


The tax cuts didn't even put a dent in the debt bubble (nor were they intended to. They were intended to be a "stimulus", which failed for similar reasons that other stimulus programs failed). The tax cuts weren't all that significant, and the main effect was making the debt bubble bigger. The Bush regime's tax cuts didn't even address the AMT (Alternative Minimum Tax). The AMT also wasn't tagged to inflation. This means that as inflation crept up, more people were roped into it. This "bracket creep" meant that people who were not actually wealthy were pushed into "wealthy" tax brackets and taxed as if they were truly wealthy. Had the Bush regime actually cut taxes, it would've improved things somewhat. However, not surprisingly, it was all a smokescreen to dupe the naive republicans. It also made for a nice talking point for neoconservative talking heads/parrots in the media.

If the mideast invasion were a real war, it would be harder to just end it, yes. However, it was simply an aggressive invasion (and now an occupation), not a war. Ending the occupation would cause short term problems, as all major shifts do, but it would be much better for all parties in the long run. This would also have to be part of a larger project to withdraw military bases/interventionism and cut foreign aid.

AdventureBegins's photo
Sun 02/20/11 03:13 PM


Is it?

American deaths attritubital to a political party going to war...

Republican party initiated war - approximately 400,000.

Democratic party initiated war - approximately 600,000.

Since the founding of our nation... Excluding times in which other than the Republican or Democratic party controlled the country or Presidency.
I am talking current events here. The republicans cut taxes on everyone with the rich benefiting the most, then started a war, bankrupted the treasury and now claims the system is broke and needs drastic changes. Americans are rubes.

Whatever... Let me see... taxes were cut AFTER THE WAR STARTED. Tax cuts benefit the poor and middle class MUCH more then the rich. treasury was bankrupted by 'congessional' action (they hold the purse strings) and, at the time of bankruptcy, congres was controled by the Democrats. This american ain't no rube.

and THIS american has been paying attention since the first time I was old enough to vote... So you can spin out all the crap you want... I know better. I have been following it since way befor the current 'crisis'...

Rebuplicans and Democrats have been tearing this country apart for years...

and both have been blaming their own short commings on the other for the same ammont of time.

I don't want to hear any more 'its their' fault...

It's time to grow up and fix it.

Bestinshow's photo
Sun 02/20/11 03:31 PM



Is it?

American deaths attritubital to a political party going to war...

Republican party initiated war - approximately 400,000.

Democratic party initiated war - approximately 600,000.

Since the founding of our nation... Excluding times in which other than the Republican or Democratic party controlled the country or Presidency.
I am talking current events here. The republicans cut taxes on everyone with the rich benefiting the most, then started a war, bankrupted the treasury and now claims the system is broke and needs drastic changes. Americans are rubes.

Whatever... Let me see... taxes were cut AFTER THE WAR STARTED. Tax cuts benefit the poor and middle class MUCH more then the rich. treasury was bankrupted by 'congessional' action (they hold the purse strings) and, at the time of bankruptcy, congres was controled by the Democrats. This american ain't no rube.

and THIS american has been paying attention since the first time I was old enough to vote... So you can spin out all the crap you want... I know better. I have been following it since way befor the current 'crisis'...

Rebuplicans and Democrats have been tearing this country apart for years...

and both have been blaming their own short commings on the other for the same ammont of time.

I don't want to hear any more 'its their' fault...

It's time to grow up and fix it.
Dont let facts get in the way of a good rant.

WASHINGTON, Jan. 7 — Families earning more than $1 million a year saw their federal tax rates drop more sharply than any group in the country as a result of President Bush’s tax cuts, according to a new Congressional study.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/08/washington/08tax.html

Dont realy have a great deal of time to devote to this right now but lets face it if you take twenty bucks away from a poor person they have to make choices. take two hundred from a rich person and they dont even notice. They would probably tip the golf caddy a little less or thier dog groomer.

AdventureBegins's photo
Sun 02/20/11 04:34 PM




Is it?

American deaths attritubital to a political party going to war...

Republican party initiated war - approximately 400,000.

Democratic party initiated war - approximately 600,000.

Since the founding of our nation... Excluding times in which other than the Republican or Democratic party controlled the country or Presidency.
I am talking current events here. The republicans cut taxes on everyone with the rich benefiting the most, then started a war, bankrupted the treasury and now claims the system is broke and needs drastic changes. Americans are rubes.

Whatever... Let me see... taxes were cut AFTER THE WAR STARTED. Tax cuts benefit the poor and middle class MUCH more then the rich. treasury was bankrupted by 'congessional' action (they hold the purse strings) and, at the time of bankruptcy, congres was controled by the Democrats. This american ain't no rube.

and THIS american has been paying attention since the first time I was old enough to vote... So you can spin out all the crap you want... I know better. I have been following it since way befor the current 'crisis'...

Rebuplicans and Democrats have been tearing this country apart for years...

and both have been blaming their own short commings on the other for the same ammont of time.

I don't want to hear any more 'its their' fault...

It's time to grow up and fix it.
Dont let facts get in the way of a good rant.

WASHINGTON, Jan. 7 — Families earning more than $1 million a year saw their federal tax rates drop more sharply than any group in the country as a result of President Bush’s tax cuts, according to a new Congressional study.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/08/washington/08tax.html

Dont realy have a great deal of time to devote to this right now but lets face it if you take twenty bucks away from a poor person they have to make choices. take two hundred from a rich person and they dont even notice. They would probably tip the golf caddy a little less or thier dog groomer.

what was that you said about facts...

It was stated "The republicans cut taxes on everyone with the rich benefiting the most, then started a war," this statement is a NON FACT...

otherwise known as a lie.

Taxes were cut in 2007. War started on March 8, 2003...

and lets face it... if the poor person is a rich mans golf caddy or dog groomer then you have taxed the poor twice... Cause they lost income because of that 'richmans' tax... Then have to still pay their own tax.

Fanta46's photo
Sun 02/20/11 07:25 PM


Is it?

American deaths attritubital to a political party going to war...

Republican party initiated war - approximately 400,000.

Democratic party initiated war - approximately 600,000.

Since the founding of our nation... Excluding times in which other than the Republican or Democratic party controlled the country or Presidency.
I am talking current events here. The republicans cut taxes on everyone with the rich benefiting the most, then started a war, bankrupted the treasury and now claims the system is broke and needs drastic changes. Americans are rubes.


More than a Trillion dollars in fact, and if they have their way the cuts will become permanent.


In August 2010, the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) estimated that extending the tax cuts for the 2011-2020 time period would add $3.3 trillion to the national debt, comprising $2.65 trillion in foregone tax revenue plus another $0.66 trillion for interest and debt service costs.

AdventureBegins's photo
Sun 02/20/11 07:44 PM



Is it?

American deaths attritubital to a political party going to war...

Republican party initiated war - approximately 400,000.

Democratic party initiated war - approximately 600,000.

Since the founding of our nation... Excluding times in which other than the Republican or Democratic party controlled the country or Presidency.
I am talking current events here. The republicans cut taxes on everyone with the rich benefiting the most, then started a war, bankrupted the treasury and now claims the system is broke and needs drastic changes. Americans are rubes.


More than a Trillion dollars in fact, and if they have their way the cuts will become permanent.


In August 2010, the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) estimated that extending the tax cuts for the 2011-2020 time period would add $3.3 trillion to the national debt, comprising $2.65 trillion in foregone tax revenue plus another $0.66 trillion for interest and debt service costs.


Garbage in Garbage out.

The CBO made that estimate based on taxes THAT HAD NOT BEEN COLLECTED... yet our congress has allready SPENT the money by projection of its intention to collect those taxes...

in other words our REPRESENTATIVES decide they would spend money they did not have. In the civilian world that is called a PONZI.

Fanta46's photo
Sun 02/20/11 08:05 PM
Oh Poppycock!!

laugh laugh laugh

Bestinshow's photo
Mon 02/21/11 04:34 AM





Is it?

American deaths attritubital to a political party going to war...

Republican party initiated war - approximately 400,000.

Democratic party initiated war - approximately 600,000.

Since the founding of our nation... Excluding times in which other than the Republican or Democratic party controlled the country or Presidency.
I am talking current events here. The republicans cut taxes on everyone with the rich benefiting the most, then started a war, bankrupted the treasury and now claims the system is broke and needs drastic changes. Americans are rubes.

Whatever... Let me see... taxes were cut AFTER THE WAR STARTED. Tax cuts benefit the poor and middle class MUCH more then the rich. treasury was bankrupted by 'congessional' action (they hold the purse strings) and, at the time of bankruptcy, congres was controled by the Democrats. This american ain't no rube.

and THIS american has been paying attention since the first time I was old enough to vote... So you can spin out all the crap you want... I know better. I have been following it since way befor the current 'crisis'...

Rebuplicans and Democrats have been tearing this country apart for years...

and both have been blaming their own short commings on the other for the same ammont of time.

I don't want to hear any more 'its their' fault...

It's time to grow up and fix it.
Dont let facts get in the way of a good rant.

WASHINGTON, Jan. 7 — Families earning more than $1 million a year saw their federal tax rates drop more sharply than any group in the country as a result of President Bush’s tax cuts, according to a new Congressional study.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/08/washington/08tax.html

Dont realy have a great deal of time to devote to this right now but lets face it if you take twenty bucks away from a poor person they have to make choices. take two hundred from a rich person and they dont even notice. They would probably tip the golf caddy a little less or thier dog groomer.

what was that you said about facts...

It was stated "The republicans cut taxes on everyone with the rich benefiting the most, then started a war," this statement is a NON FACT...

otherwise known as a lie.

Taxes were cut in 2007. War started on March 8, 2003...

and lets face it... if the poor person is a rich mans golf caddy or dog groomer then you have taxed the poor twice... Cause they lost income because of that 'richmans' tax... Then have to still pay their own tax.
Do you remember ronald reagan? he planted the seeds of this disaster.

galendgirl's photo
Mon 02/21/11 06:32 PM
Edited by galendgirl on Mon 02/21/11 06:33 PM
Whatever your political leanings, Koch supports free-market captialism and does it very well, to the tune of more than 80K employees worldwide.

Harrah Analytics says that in the USA alone, "Koch companies employ or support the jobs of more than 203,000 people...including the direct employment of "more than 50,000 people in 46 states and the District of Columbia" plus the indirect benefit of those salaries going into our economic base to generate "more than 150,000 additional jobs."

"States benefiting most from direct and indirect jobs created by Koch companies are:
• Texas (32,960 total jobs)
• Georgia (32,350 total jobs)
• Alabama (13,725 total jobs)
• Arkansas (12,200 total jobs)
• South Carolina (11,280 total jobs)
• Wisconsin (11,000 total jobs)
• Oregon (10,180 total jobs)
• Mississippi (7,570 total jobs)
• Oklahoma (5,910 total jobs)
• Kansas (5,730 total jobs)

Koch companies historically invest 90 percent or more of their earnings back into the businesses...in the past five years, Georgia-Pacific has invested approximately $5.5 billion – mostly in the United States – for acquisitions and other investments, for expansions to grow existing operations, or to improve safety and environmental performance, eliminate waste and become more innovative and efficient. Since 2003, Koch companies, including Georgia-Pacific, Flint Hills Resources, INVISTA and Koch Industries, have completed approximately $32 billion in acquisitions and investments and nearly $11 billion in capital expenditures."

With first hand knowledge of Koch Industries and it's holdings, I can say with certainty that the media doesn't tell the whole story. You can make anyone look like a bad guy or a good guy, but it should be incumbent upon everyone to investigate both sides of the story. The fact that these successful brothers support a "hands off" view of government (and sorry, I also believe Unions have outlived their useful life) shouldn't make then villains. It's a choice that has proven profitable not just for Koch Industries, but throughout history.

metalwing's photo
Mon 02/21/11 06:39 PM
Public unions are largely what bankrupted California.

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