I tend to agree and that was kind of my point- I just didn't come right out & say it like u did

because in any situation a number of factors can be to "blame" but even if blame can be accurately placed - it doesn't matter - the next step - or where do we go from here to improve things is more important

well fear, I think experiences are important to learn from, but yes, we can't obtain all of our information with anecdotes from our daily lives

I have seen young men - young people - coming from the worst of environments - turn out to be responsible, achieving, contributing adults, as well as the other way around

Experience is better learned on a personal level rather than trying to teach everyone else what you've learned from your own personal experience...but that's just my opinion.

sure- can't see that it can be YOUR experience any other way. What we really learn when we tell stories of expereinces to others is how to share information in a social setting (or what ever setting it is), and we learn what the others have experienced, and we let others into our worlds this way but we don't have the same quality of knowledge of the actual expereinces unless we also had those experiences

because you paint a picture and tell me about it isnt going to make me an artist

Rather than running away from what I believe to be complete and totally honest answers about my own lack of character, I'm gonna say thank you.

Thank you to everyone who posted. My personal perspective is very small and I definitely needed to be reminded that the world is much bigger than my imagination has gone. I realize what a complete and total *** I just made of myself and hope mothers will forgive me.

I don't understand why the mothers who defended that they weren't like that, kept thinking I was talking about them? Kind of confusing. Women's Liberation as a whole was simply a quick adjective for our overcompensation tactics to receive equal treatment. I truly believe we have taken it too far.

To the people who believe I was acting superior, I'm sorry that was misconstrued. I actually blame my entire sex, myself included, for the emasculating men, and then expecting them to remember what their role is in the relationship. I have confused more than my fair share of man/boys.

TO THE CAPTAIN...thank you for your comments, it was nice to have constructive criticism with a precision Ginsu, instead of the dull chainsaws wielded by the others.

Getting off my high-horse,
Shayna

When I was in college, a small informal group of us created what we called The Insincere Christian White Male Club. Now before anyone gets the wrong impression, there was nothing racist about it. I will explain.

The administration had a Gender-Neutral Task Force whose sole purpose was to research and enforce policy that favored women in the "name" of equality. Part of what they did was create a policy which allowed a professor to fail a student on any assignment or exam solely based on a failure to use gender-neutral terms. They also invited guest speakers onto campus, in cooperation with the Women's Group, to give lectures on women's issues. Some of these speakers refused to allow men to attend these lectures. One even said that if she saw a man lying in the road dying she refuse to aid him solely based on his gender. Her name (she had it legally changed) was Ana R. Kissed.

Because of such gestapo tactics that actually widened the gender gap in the name of Feminism, we organized our little club as an act of rebellion. Anyone could join - any race, gender, or religion. The reason being white Christian men were deemed a bunch of liars. Therefore, since we are supposedly insincere, nothing we say has any meaning. So you didn't actually have to be white or Christian or even male to join. After all, we're a bunch of liars so even the name of our club is just another lie. To us, the club was nothing more than public satire - a big joke with a serious undertone.

It may sound a bit extreme, but the views we heard from the campus feminists were quite extreme and divisive. If we couldn't attend the lectures then it prevented us from providing an alternate view, or from having a peaceable, respectful, intelligent discussion of the gender gap. There really is nothing constructive or educational about such favoritism. So we created a way to make our voices heard despite the femme-Nazis that the administration was backing.

It may be a small sample, but it does exist. That's why men are rebelling against it, creating Men's Groups, man-caves, and such. It is in response to a small group of women with loud voices who are trying to make men stop being men. I know a lot of men who despise Oprah for the impact she has had in this area.

Myself, I don't really care. It's the haters that I don't like, and to me Oprah isn't a hater. There will always be a few that take it to an extreme regardless, no matter who they idolize and respect.

Naw girl...

I have no doubt that you were legit in venting....There are plenty of worthless douches out there that are products of thier up bringing.

Hell, I recently sh**canned a good friend of 16 years cause I just got tired of his retardations and I KNOW that most of his stupidity is a result of his mamma coddling him and NOT making him stand on his own.

Momma will bail him out.
Momma will pay for the lawyer.
Momma will watch his kids while he is too screwed up to do it from smoking meth.
Momma will clean up after him.
Momma will feed him cause his useless @$$ got no interest in holding a job cause...Momma will feed and clothe and shelter him AND give him money.

I don't know EVERYONE...but I do know...that for as kind hearted and sweet and caring as his momma is...(Pretty hot too)

I wanna slap that stupid b!tch for being a complete failure as a mother.

One of the last things he said to me..."I am gonna hate spending time in prison.....but, (he laughed here) MY MOM WILL GET A GOOD LAWYER FOR ME" (more laughter)....

She did...

What was I supposed to think? You used the word "we," which is inconclusive or YOU and ME and ALL the women in this forum, but I know what you said didn't apply to me. If you are willing to include yourself in a statement by using "we," then I will assume you are speaking of yourself.



This is your problem! You are taking what is going on in your area and applying it unilaterally across the board.

In addition, I seriously doubt whether the women whom you are castigating are in spirit or deed "feminists."




Thanks!




She "sees" a problem that is limited to her limited sphere of experience. Because the OP THINKS that men have been emasculated by strong mothers doesn't mean that it is so!



Bingo! It is a logical fallacy, but still a fallacy. The OP speaks of people whom she knows and the people in her neighborhood, but those people are not representative of the state, the US, or the world!



I can only speak for myself, and it is because I am a feminist. My sons were raised to understand that females are their equals. You said feminists raised horrible, dependent sons.



UGH! This type of statement is what annoyed me in the first place. I am a female: I have not emasculated any man. I have seen women who are NOT feminists emasculate men. Leave me out of your blanket statement condemning women!

In addition, no emotionally mature man can be emasculated unless he allows it to happen. Even is mothers of boys taught them a certain actions or beliefs, those boys need to grow up and realize that NO ONE is responsible for their "emasculation" but them.

As for the emotionally immature men, if a woman hooks up with one of them, she is responsible for her choice, eh?

Gwen...

Relax Honey. Please.

This is just a simple chat site with people throwing out statements based on limited experience. Not everything here requires dissection. Right or wrong...we are all entitled to our individual perspective (though I do feel like I am being graded on punctuation and use of context)

Just a thought.

P.S. You DO got some gorgeous hair there Honey

:)

I don't consider myself a feminist, at all. I stayed home with my children for 14 years and was a Sunday School Teacher and (volunteer) Preschool President during that time. Nonetheless, here is what I gather from a few of the more recent posts: it is not ok to be racist, but it is OK to be gender biased. A mother who didn't do the best job in the world is castigated for being there nonetheless and no effort has been made to explain where this young man's father is, or what his contribution has been.

Rather I think it telling that this man is taking advantage of his mom who is showing rather misguided loyalty - at what point is he responsible for his own behavior?...generally I'd say it's time to stop blamimg ur parents for how you've turned out at about age 16 or 17 - at the latest

Nothing is going to emasculate a man who does not want to be emasculated

the strongest & sexiest men I have known embrace some pf the more positive elements of women's liberation (it's Independence Day baby)!! Such as equal pay for equal work, and equal access to things like law school, medical school,and other male bastions like engineering and even to some degree sports

but there have been divisive elements within that movement and as such are extreme where the extremes of any movement are usually pretty obnoxious to be sure

Great, I'll throw a simple statement out - both parents are responsible to be fully involved with their kids. If the women's movement has asked and encouraged fathers to take more responsibility for their offspring (with mom
s working and such)- good. it's about time and a lot of men really enjoy their kids now instead of being these mysterious seldom home disciplinarians like back in the day

To that Sweetest...I will say..

My womb donor bailed when I was 6 months old my brother was 5 yrs. My Dad was my Mom and Dad and set a great example as a human. Everyone is an equal until they prove themselves as less.

Women and men (to me) must earn thier respect or disrespect. No gender is entitled to respect or disrespect...it is to be earned as an individual.

On the surface, I am certain I come across as a crass, womanizing schmuck...I am good with that. Those who take the time, will eventually see beyond the facade....(I can play up some facade like it's no one else's business)

It is easy to lay the resentments of our varied pasts into generalities....the hard part is to accept that there are many people out there that defy the patterns which have molded each of us.

Some women...

Some men...

I feel fortunate to have been raised to be the soul I am. None of us are perfect....(actaully, I am but, I don't want the rest of the mindless twits to get an inferieority complex)

It is just soooo hard for people to see past what thier own lives have been.

Oh yes I agree!! and it so much easier to place blame. I am sorry that you did not benefit from ur mom's presence. it is sad when any child loses a parent for whatever reason. And you are absolutely right in my opinion - it doesn't matter if someone is a man or a woman - it is what we are as a person that matters. Your mom missed out on getting to know a great person - her loss krupa God ur story has me all teary eyed and cant see to type so sorry if there's errors


there I think I fixed all the typos

Ohhh NO!!!!

I never missed what I didn't have Honey!

I place no blame or fault with the woman that I don't know. I am just fortunate that I had a good person do his very best for me and my brother. I could never ask more from anyone than that. Wasn't rich...wasn't always well fed...never went to school in new clothes

but, there was never a day in my life that I wasn't loved.

I had the best up bringing any soul could hope for. Everyone who has ever met my Dad...has told me that he is the coolest....and they envied me.

That is the example that I have learned from and the measure of a man I try to reach everyday.

Tommorrow..I will try to be even better. (for every tommorrow I have)

:)

ur dad sounds like a wonderful man. u are lucky to have him. my kids wore a lot of hand me downs too because we had a 1 income family when they were little

now the buggers are too old to fool


and I didn't say u missed anything - I said it was HER loss krupa

I know Baby.

Smooches.

P.S...I still hit the thrift stores that I got all my clothes and toys from....they feel like home.

:)

WOW,,,,THIS is the second time I have seen torment through pain.

NOT THE OP, but through some of US..

People come on HERE,,,this site,,for many reasons.
One of them is their alone in life, and have no one to share
life's experiences with.
So when they post something in their own thoughts and views
from THEIR perspectives...what their living in or through.
This place here,,these posts,,,give them an out-let..
to vent off their days or weeks frustrations..
We members mostly TRY and HELP them and those who reply.
on them,,,we can SEARCH their thoughts a bit,,as to make sure we understand their meaning...we can joke about small things in their meanings,,and we can try to encourage a harmony for them through
what we feel we can help them find.
But,,,to just JUMP-ON and CLOSE-OFF what the OP has lived or is going through,,is not really the Friendliest advice to give,
or manner to address someone.

I have always felt that if a post was done that I felt I MIGHT have
a perspective thought to help them with,,then I TRY,,
If a post was done that I felt I couldn't be Nice to them in,
I wouldn't go into it to reply?
This PLACE is a place MADE to HELP people...(a date,or a friend)
Not the place to be aggressively seeking to however nicely
illustrated,,to make one feel their being attached for their opinions

WE ALL SHOULD-TRY TO CARE about every members desire to reach-out,
and be a part of the forums,,and HELP if we can..
But not to try to be-little someone or slyly bash them.
I am not say this post has reached that mark,,,however
I feel it could,,,,so I felt a need to HELP the OP,
by saying this now...
I speak only of my point of views,,as I do not speak this site's
owners or Mod's...just a long time member, who LOVES to SHARE
this place with ALL OF YOU,,,

To the OP,,,I feel your pains,,of living there and seeing all the low living attitudes that many there share.. There are men as well as women who don't feel a desire to work,,,or the ones who work and make their mate feel they owe them EVERYTHING...for doing that.
Many men for sometime now,,,want to have the sex,,but run from the results,,,their babies,,,and so many girls,,become moms and struggle
and again,,,many men will run from them,,because they have children
so now we have, many mothers raising thieer kids to adults for the lack of a real caring man in their life.
I've met many who are like what I just desribed,,and to be real,
I have met many, who would never run away from her or their baby..
But if your not happy there,,,for whatever the reasoning,,.
I to would be finding a better place where your child could grow to live to SEE and feel better in your mind as the proper way for them to grow...so--------tell them all,,,see ya,,,wink,and find your new home....

cool - ya same

me & my 16 yo are hittin the second hand music store this weekend - at one point I knew their inventory better than they did

When he gets into porn..let me know...I can save you a few bucks and send him a box or two of the raunchiest stuff legally available in the states. Glad to help baby.

Risking going out on a limb here...

In response to Iam4u,

I see what you are saying here, and I agree. In another thread, I played Devil's Advocate in defense of the OP because his post was met with scorn and belittlement. I wasn't very happy with how people treated my post there either. To reject and dismiss the OP shuts down the discussion by causing the OP to tune out rather than maybe receive advice or help with his or her problem.

In another thread, I noticed the OP had a dilemma but was afraid to bring it up in the Forums because she was a bit shy. So, I talked to her outside the Forums by on-site email. There she explained everything, and together we solved the problem that she was seeking help on.

On the other hand, I'm not sure this thread was that hostile yet, but like you, I saw it heading in that direction until Krupa stepped in and brought it under control again. I almost posted twice since my last post, but deleted it each time. I thought it best to stay away for a bit to see what happened.