I'm sorry that you were unable to comprehend what I had posted previously.

You can't have people worshiping "false idols" and simultaneously accuse them of knowingly and willfully refusing to worship and obey God. That is a logically flawed accusation. I already gave the reasons for this.

Thus, since the Hebrew fables make these accusations, we can know without a doubt that these fables are false and cannot possibly be the thoughts or words of any all-wise God.

Intelligent people who have all the information necessary to be aware that they are worshiping "false idols" would need to be mentally ill to be so delusional (i.e. poorly created beings, which could only be the fault of their creator)

The only other explanation would be that they did not have the correct information upon which to make a sound intelligent decision. But that again would only be the fault of their creator for not making sure that they had the correct understanding.

In short, people who have misunderstood something cannot be accused of having made willful knowing decisions to make a particular choice. Thus the accusations made by the Hebrews against these people breaks down and fails. It could not have been the thoughts or perspective of an all-wise God. Thus the Biblical fables cannot be "God's Word".

It's an open and shut case. There's no way to worm out of it. The Hebrews are caught dead-to-rights in their made-up lies.

No, I'm saying that these fables cannot be the "Word of God" because they are totally inconsistent, contradicting, and unreasonable.

Those very properties fly in the face of the idea that these fables could even be the word of an all-wise, infallible, perfect God.

So there's no question that they did not come from any such being.

Besides, you don't need these stories to be true to have faith in God. You've demanded as much yourself. You've made the claim that you have felt God's presence and knew that God existed even before you ever heard of the Bible. You didn't need to "Believe in the Bible" to have faith in God.

Well, duh?

I don't need to believe in the Bible to have faith in God either!

The ancient Hebrew fables have nothing to do with God. That's all I'm saying. I'm not renouncing the idea that God exists! On the contrary I'm not an atheist.

In fact, I've often told you that I apparently have more FAITH in God than you do, because you need for the Bible to be true. If you lose the ability to point to that book to back up your FAITH, then you have nothing left. You worship JESUS AS LORD! That's idol worship right there!

And once you've accepted Jesus as your "LORD" then you have no choice but to support the entire Hebrew mythology in ever detail because without it Jesus becomes nothing more than a mere mortal man, which YOU CAN'T HANDLE!

You need these stories of Jesus and the Bible to be REAL. Because without them you don't have a "religion". You no longer have a specific fairytale to "believe in".

But that flies in the face of your claim that you already intuitively knew of God and spirituality even before you heard of these myths.

The biblical doctrine is designed purposefully to be propagated and proselytized as as the "Only True Word of God. But there's no need for these ancient religious mythologies.

You can have FAITH in God as a Wiccan, or as a Buddhist, or even as an independent person who doesn't recognize any man-made form of religion.

But what the ancient Hebrews tried to do is proclaim that if you don't kiss up to THEIR RELIGION, then your "Faith in God" is utterly meaningless and useless!

And that, my friend, is nothing more than a man-made doctrine that represent nothing more than hateful religious bigotry toward anyone who refuses to worship the Hebrew fables as the "Word of God".

You don't need a fable to have "FAITH" in God.

On the contrary, if you do need a fable, then you merely have faith in a fable.

Only in your mind. The word of God holds the knowledge to the most beautiful and greatest love there ever has been, there ever is, and there ever will be. The bible holds love and nothing but love.

Well obviously I disagree with your view.

But it matters not. If you are correct, and I am wrong about all the stupidity, male-chauvinism, religious bigotry, jealous, and general hatred contained in the Bible, then I'm only rejecting what you claim isn't even in there in the first place.

Therefore I cannot be rejecting "God", but rather I'm rejecting a grossly incorrect picture of God.

If that's the case, then the real God could only be totally thrilled by my rejection of this totally incorrect picture of what God is!

There would be no reason for this God to condemn me, but on the contrary he would be nothing short of ecstatic over my behavior. He would recognize that I won't stand for anyone putting him down.



I would be one of God's greatest joys! He would be hard-pressed to find a child that he could be more pleased with.

To believe something is true is to assume that it is true. You have assumed that it is true that God doesn't want children sacrificed. Thus you believe you know God's will. No different from Cowboy or anyone else. Oh wait, there is one difference: The outrageous arrogance and superiority complex. Okay, that's two things.

Who's spewing hatred now by flinging the muddy insults?

How Christ-like of you.

I need to 'believe' this anyway.

By definition a God must be nice because otherwise it would be a demon.

Besides, it was your false accusation of me that caused me to make that statement the first place.

You falsely accused me of believing that God wants people to sacrifice babies.

I was merely responding to your false accusation and refuting the claim. I never said that I believe that God wants anyone to sacrifice babies in the first place, is what I actually meant!

You aren't out to support a religion, you are out to destroy the character of anyone who disagrees with your religion and who refuses to buy into it!

This is precisely what makes Christianity so hateful.

People like you try to ram the religion down the throats of others, and when they refuse to swallow it and try to explain why they don't buy into it, then you unleash your "hate-tactic" onto them trying to belittle them and discredit them.

This is precisely these "Jealous God" religions end up causing their followers to be like.

If you can't sell your religion to someone else, you try to bury them with hateful name calling and horrible accusations.

Face, it, it's YOUR RELIGION that is the cause of this.

If you would simply keep your religion to yourself, and allow me to have my own relationship with God, then we wouldn't be having these kinds offensive and defensive conversations.

You could simply accept that I have my own views of ancient folklore, and I'll accept that you have your views.

Then we could all live happily ever after in peace.

I have absolutely No Problem if you want to believe that Jesus was "The Christ" of the Old Testament.

All I have ever asked from anyone is that they should have No Problem if, for me, Jesus was a Mahayana Buddhist.

Can't we BOTH have our own interpretations of human history without having to butt heads over it?

Why harbor such hostility toward my views?

You know, maybe I was laying it on there. I made a judgment of your personality and to be honest, I only know your on-line persona. We are all different online than we are in person, it's human nature in action.



That is not true. What I asked was how you know God's will. I was making the point that you attacked Cowboy for claiming to know God's will, but you also claim to know God's will. I am sorry if that wasn't clear to you. To be fair to me, I believe if you go back and re-read my previous posts, you will see that.



I'll be honest, I do have an axe to grind with you. For a very long time, you claimed to have more experience with Christianity than you really have. You used that claim to knowledge to smeared the religion that I love and other Christians. And let's not forget that you accused me of mentally abusing my daughter. The human part of me reacts with anger towards you because of all that, the Christian part of me tells me to be more conciliatory towards you.



These forums are in a cycle of hate between Christians and non-Christians and you want to argue that it's all the Christians fault. I've been intemperate and typed hurtful things that I should never have typed. But most of the Christians here have never posted a single word to deserve your vitriol. If you are angry at me, direct your anger at me. I'm a person and my religion isn't to blame for my actions or words, I have never defended any hurtful thing I've said with scriptures. It does make me wonder...if you are only reacting to Christian hate directed against you, what did you do the whole time I wasn't posting here?



I've never tried to force my religion on anyone, that's simply not true. I'm not sure why you feel this need to demonize me. I'll be honest, I've said some mean and hurtful things, but I've never tried to force my religion on anyone. This forum is for discussing religions. I don't see why I shouldn't be free to post my own religious beliefs.



No. I'm the way I am and I was an angry person before I became a Christian. You can't attack a whole religion because I've been mean or sarcastic to you. It's unfair and irrational. You claim to be a man of science and reason, but that's not coming through at all when you make claims like this.



You've never once made horrible accusations or called names to anyone in these forums?



This is the last thing I'm going to read in this post, because it's getting late and I think you have completely gone off the deep end with this. This forum is called "General Religion Chat". Everyone is allowed to post here, regardless of their religion. I have never tried to stop you from having a relationship with anyone or anything and you know it. I have never tried to force my beliefs on anyone, I have just discussed my beliefs openly. Non-Christians also frequently post about their beliefs and you don't bat an eye. You have always had a double standard when it comes to Christians.

That's not true at all. I vividly remember that incident because you made such a big deal about it, but let's clear this up once and for all.

At that time I wasn't even aware that you had any kids at all. In fact, I actually thought that you were single and never married. So I actually didn't even think you had any kids.

Secondly I didn't accuse you of mentally abusing your daughter.

We were talking about Christianity and I said that I felt that it is mentally abusive for adults to make young children feel guilty about being sinners who are responsible for having the son of God nailed to a pole, and for showing them pictures of a bloody Jesus hanging on a cross.

Then you ran off screaming foul and claiming that I just accused you of mentally abusing your daughter.

Well, I'm sorry to have to tell you this, but I still hold my original view, and so if you have indeed done that to your daughter at a very young age, then I have no sympathy for you.

What more can I say? I truly do believe that the Christian story can indeed be mentally traumatic for young children. And I personally don't condone teaching young children that they are sinners.

That's my honest feelings on the matter.

But I never actually "accused" you of doing that. Evidently you must have felt guilty of doing it on your own.

All you had to do was disagree with me that it would be mentally abusive.

But no, you prefer to make things into a personal war all the time. As far as I can tell you're always try to turn religious conversations into personal battles and personal accusations.

I prefer to just stick with talking about the bible and the religion itself.

Nobody else accuses me of "rejecting God", or "refusing to believe to believe in God", or "refusing to obey God", etc.

Nobody else tries to convince me that they have the only book that is the "Only True Word of God".

So there is no "double-standard".

It's just that nobody else does these things.

whether the jesus story happened or not..i'm leaning toward NOT because it's an exact rip off of baal and krishna..no intelligent christian can deny the NT lies concerning his death. One says he died before passover, another during, another after yet all three claim Jesus was dead for three days before he arose sunday morning. This in itself can't possibly be true. The Jewish sabbath is on saturday, Jesus was allegedly nailed on a friday afternoon and laid to rest before sundown. let's also note the sun was supposedly eclipsed at this time yet no documents in Roman history can confirm this and at this time the romans and the greeks documented all occurances of these kind because they were obsessed with the Sun.
So with these facts, Jesus was only in the grave less than a day and a half. This difference is not a difference in interpretation as most christians will spin as to the differences in details. There's a big difference in..3 days..or 1.5 days. Let's not forget in the book of ACTS it says that Jesus was the first and only man to defy death and be resurrected. Another lie..did they forget about Lazurus?
Not to mention the saints supposedly brought back to life when he returned from his amazing adventure in hell and then flew back into space.

You really should look at scholarly sources, because you'll find that what you've just posted isn't true. There are people who want it to seem that Christianity is a copy-cat religion, but it's simply not true.

You really should look at scholarly sources, because you'll find that what you've just posted isn't true. There are people who want it to seem that Christianity is a copy-cat religion, but it's simply not true.


But Christianity is a copy-cat religion !!
virgin birth
dec 25
eat his flesh, drink his blood (communion)
etc, etc, etc....

Fortunately Christianity as an organized religion has basically died out. All that's really left today are a bunch of "Designer Christians" who can never agree with each other on what the religion even means.... But they all agree on two things...keep sending in your money and keep living with guilt as a sinner.
How rediculous :(

But Christianity is a copy-cat religion !!
virgin birth
dec 25
eat his flesh, drink his blood (communion)
etc, etc, etc....

Fortunately Christianity as an organized religion has basically died out. All that's really left today are a bunch of "Designer Christians" who can never agree with each other on what the religion even means.... But they all agree on two things...keep sending in your money and keep living with guilt as a sinner.
How rediculous :(


What other religion has a virgin birth? And I mean from a human woman who was a virgin.

December 25th has nothing to do with Jesus. Christmas was put on December 25th (a pagan holiday), so that early Christians could celebrate the birth of Jesus without being seen as outsiders by their non-Christian neighbors. Jesus was born in the spring or the fall, because there were shepherds in the fields and shepherds don't take their animals out during the winter (There's no living grass, it's cold and there is snow on the ground).

"eat his flesh, drink his blood (communion)"...What are you talking about? What other religion teaches that you have to make God's wisdom and love as important to you as food and wine?

"etc, etc, etc...." The three examples you gave are hallow. If you want to make your point, I hope you have something better than that.

What other religion has a virgin birth? And I mean from a human woman who was a virgin.

December 25th has nothing to do with Jesus. Christmas was put on December 25th (a pagan holiday), so that early Christians could celebrate the birth of Jesus without being seen as outsiders by their non-Christian neighbors. Jesus was born in the spring or the fall, because there were shepherds in the fields and shepherds don't take their animals out during the winter (There's no living grass, it's cold and there is snow on the ground).

"eat his flesh, drink his blood (communion)"...What are you talking about? What other religion teaches that you have to make God's wisdom and love as important to you as food and wine?

"etc, etc, etc...." The three examples you gave are hallow. If you want to make your point, I hope you have something better than that.

Satanism... at its core.

Pure worshippers of Baal. (If any such exist)...

There are others.

Goggle is a wonderful resource... As is Ask and a whole host of others...

Or just go to a local library and look for 'religions'.

If you were to actually investigate on others you might find some suprising coorelations between the 'religions'.

I'm not sure I understand. We are talking about if Christianity is a copy-cat religion. Are you saying that Christianity is a copy cat religion of Satanism and Ba'al worship? If so, would you care to expound upon that?

Satanism... at its core.

Pure worshippers of Baal. (If any such exist)...

There are others.

Goggle is a wonderful resource... As is Ask and a whole host of others...

Or just go to a local library and look for 'religions'.

If you were to actually investigate on others you might find some suprising coorelations between the 'religions'.




6:35 And Jesus said unto them,
I am the bread of life:
he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

6:41 The Jews then murmured at him, because he said,
I am the bread which came down from heaven.

6:42 And they said,
Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know?
how is it then that he saith, I came down from heaven?

6:43 Jesus therefore answered and said unto them,
Murmur not among yourselves.

6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him:
and I will raise him up at the last day.

6:45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God.
Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

6:46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.

6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you,
He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

6:48 I am that bread of life.

6:49 Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead.

6:50 This is the bread which cometh down from heaven,
that a man may eat thereof, and not die.

6:51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven:
if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever:
and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
=============

This explains what you are totally confused about. Remember Jesus speaks in parables and you have to keep the entire bible in mind to understand what next you read.

Satanism... at its core.

Pure worshippers of Baal. (If any such exist)...

There are others.

Goggle is a wonderful resource... As is Ask and a whole host of others...

Or just go to a local library and look for 'religions'.

If you were to actually investigate on others you might find some suprising coorelations between the 'religions'.




There are not times and dates for us to know exactly when Jesus was born. He probably wasn't born in December. But what in reality does it truly matter? 25th is a celebration in MEMORY of the birth of our savior. It's not particularly his "birthday" just merely a celebration out of memory of our savior coming into the world.

spidercmb and cowboy keep shining the light!!!!!

I'll make sure to review my posts more closely, these quotes didn't work as intended...

Drinking of blood, eating of flesh (make believe or not)... Birth of founder by virgin human female through action of 'god' (as the believers see god)... Equation of 'founder' as GOD in flesh by beleviers of that religion.