Do you think that being Christian or Islamic (since they are so similar) makes a person overly obsessed with death/reward so that they cannot live life? Or even truly be themselves and genuine?

(living life does not mean debauchery either)


I feel that the doctrines are stifling to the person even if they don't realize it. Allowing/coercing them to conceal their real true selves behind a false shield of the religion. Not meaning that their true selves are evil as the religions teach.

Example: A person who is a part of one of these religions is associated with a gay person. The two of them are very compatible and a great friendship could happen but the religious person cannot fully love and support the gay person in a healthy way due to misgivings taught by the church. (And "saving" or converting this person is not healthy no matter what you have been told" In this case the real person behind the shield would be a true friend and have a life long close relationship with another loving human. The religious shield cannot allow this person to be genuine because of the fear of hell taught by the church.

Causing the religious person to be ungenuine in their relationships due to the doctrines of the church in this case causing fear.

You'd better believe that kind of logic is spreading.
Many horses are waiting to come out of the gate.
So many waiting for endorsement.
At one time homosexuality was as much a sickness
as incest...and now because so many have closed
their eyes to the taboo of it...
it is now labeled "natural".

There are a lot of closet incestuous, beastial,
and other participants who are waiting
for the day when what they enjoy doing
is acceptible as well.
What kind of society are we allowing?
Is this our children's inheritance?

Cowboy I have gone through this issue with you at least ten times in here and every time I give you bible verses it goes through one ear and out the other.I guess I will have to explain this to you for the 11th time.



Jesus was talking about judging people based on appearance,rumors,slander,assumptions,false witness'sand other traits.He was talking about labeling people into a category before even talking to them.He was not talking about judgment of people after the facts were known.He was talking about judging before the facts were known.


In Jesus's own words...

“Has not Moses given you the law? Yet none of you keeps the law. . . . Do not judge by appearances, but judge with right judgment.” (John 7:19, 24)


Cowboy are you saying Jesus is a liar?Anyone can see this bible verse for what it is.Don't judge by appearance but by peoples actions.



Jesus told the Pharisees, “You serpents, you brood of vipers, how are you to escape being sentenced to hell?” (Matt. 23:23)


Is this not judging?Is Jesus a hypocrite?Is not Jesus judging by their actions?


What about John the baptist.Did he not yell and scream at King herold and his wife and accuse her of adultery?Is that not judging? Matt. 14:3-4)

Yet what did Jesus say about John the baptist?


Jesus said of him, “Truly, I say to you, among those born of women there has arisen no one greater than John the Baptist” (Matt. 11:11)


So not only did Jesus tell us to judge righteously so did his apostles...

In Luke 17:3 He commanded us to rebuke a trespassing brother: “If your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him.”

In 1 Timothy 5:20 he says, “Those who continue in sin, rebuke in the presence of all, so that the rest also may be fearful of sinning.”

In Titus 2:15 he tells Titus, “These things speak and exhort and reprove with all authority. Let no one disregard you.”

In 2 Tim. 4:2 he tells Timothy to “reprove, rebuke, exhort.”

In 1 Thess. 5:14 he says to “admonish the unruly.”

In Rom. 15:14 he tells the Roman church that they are “able to admonish one another.”

In Eph. 5:11 he tells the church, “Do not participate in the unfruitful deeds of darkness, but rather expose them.”

Or do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world is to be judged by you, are you incompetent to try trivial cases? Do you not know that we are to judge angels? How much more, then, matters pertaining to this life! So if you have such cases, why do you lay them before those who have no standing in the church? I say this to your shame. Can it be that there is no one among you wise enough to settle a dispute between the brothers, but brother goes to law against brother, and that before unbelievers? (1 Cor. 6:2-6)


“tell it to the church. And if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector. Truly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.” (Matt. 18:17-18)


It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that is not tolerated even among pagans, for a man has his father’s wife. And you are arrogant! Ought you not rather to mourn? Let him who has done this be removed from among you. For though absent in body, I am present in spirit; and as if present, I have already pronounced judgment on the one who did such a thing. When you are assembled in the name of the Lord Jesus and my spirit is present, with the power of our Lord Jesus, you are to deliver this man to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord. (1 Cor. 5:1-5)












If we truly did not judge we would not be Christians but Atheists.Because the entire bible talks about who we should and should not associate with.

Cowboy I have gone through this issue with you at least ten times in here and every time I give you bible verses it goes through one ear and out the other.I guess I will have to explain this to you for the 11th time.



Jesus was talking about judging people based on appearance,rumors,slander,assumptions,false witness'sand other traits.He was talking about labeling people into a category before even talking to them.He was not talking about judgment of people after the facts were known.He was talking about judging before the facts were known.


In Jesus's own words...

“Has not Moses given you the law? Yet none of you keeps the law. . . . Do not judge by appearances, but judge with right judgment.” (John 7:19, 24)


Cowboy are you saying Jesus is a liar?Anyone can see this bible verse for what it is.Don't judge by appearance but by peoples actions.



Jesus told the Pharisees, “You serpents, you brood of vipers, how are you to escape being sentenced to hell?” (Matt. 23:23)

Look around you my dear, have you noticed the changes our society has gone through...boundaries are being broken...
I know that many mantras have been chanted and I can see "all the people" trying "to live as one"..."no religion" and soon you will convince yourselves we need "no country" and all that...Seems the world is following a pied piper to places they know not of...

People need to wake up and stop lusting and fantasizing and demanding their "rights" to have these foolish dreams fulfilled.

What would be the comparison with a natural relationship like homosexuality and a sickness like incest?

Who says incest is a sickness?

Double-standards abound in here.

So you're allowed to call incest a "sickness" but forbid anyone else the right to call homosexuality wrong???

I love how you say not to judge one another, yet you judge others actions all the time. Take the log out of your own eye first cowboy.

Jesus was telling them not to assume and make a personal judgement on the person. He was telling them to take the entire picture into mind and not pick apart things. He in no way was condoning someone to judge another. Making a judgement on someone is totally different then "judging" them. Making a personal judgement of someone is saying you have made an opinion on that someone weather you like them or not. "Judging" someone would be to condemn them to hell. To state they are going there, and this is what Jesus told us not to do.


Matthew 7:20-24
20The people answered and said, Thou hast a devil: who goeth about to kill thee?

21Jesus answered and said unto them, I have done one work, and ye all marvel.

22Moses therefore gave unto you circumcision; (not because it is of Moses, but of the fathers;) and ye on the sabbath day circumcise a man.

23If a man on the sabbath day receive circumcision, that the law of Moses should not be broken; are ye angry at me, because I have made a man every whit whole on the sabbath day?

24Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

So not only did Jesus tell us to judge righteously so did his apostles...

In Luke 17:3 He commanded us to rebuke a trespassing brother: “If your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him.”

In 1 Timothy 5:20 he says, “Those who continue in sin, rebuke in the presence of all, so that the rest also may be fearful of sinning.”

In Titus 2:15 he tells Titus, “These things speak and exhort and reprove with all authority. Let no one disregard you.”

In 2 Tim. 4:2 he tells Timothy to “reprove, rebuke, exhort.”

In 1 Thess. 5:14 he says to “admonish the unruly.”

In Rom. 15:14 he tells the Roman church that they are “able to admonish one another.”

In Eph. 5:11 he tells the church, “Do not participate in the unfruitful deeds of darkness, but rather expose them.”

Definitely not the bible that is for sure. The bible says man was begotten from incest.

But yea incest is a sickness.

Homosexuality is a born trait and is evident in nature.

Jesus was telling them not to assume and make a personal judgement on the person. He was telling them to take the entire picture into mind and not pick apart things. He in no way was condoning someone to judge another. Making a judgement on someone is totally different then "judging" them. Making a personal judgement of someone is saying you have made an opinion on that someone weather you like them or not. "Judging" someone would be to condemn them to hell. To state they are going there, and this is what Jesus told us not to do.


Matthew 7:20-24
20The people answered and said, Thou hast a devil: who goeth about to kill thee?

21Jesus answered and said unto them, I have done one work, and ye all marvel.

22Moses therefore gave unto you circumcision; (not because it is of Moses, but of the fathers;) and ye on the sabbath day circumcise a man.

23If a man on the sabbath day receive circumcision, that the law of Moses should not be broken; are ye angry at me, because I have made a man every whit whole on the sabbath day?

24Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

Quoting a book of no consequence adds nothing to this thread at all.

It defends noone nor assists none of us in a greater understanding of this life.

Again it sounds like the religious are the ones who should worry about some kind of retribution because the non religious have nothing to worry about. Natural love between homosexuals causes as much problem in the world as heterosexual love does. It is the same.

Our children are inheriting a healthier view of human relationships.

LOL!

You obviously haven't read the Bible. It has even been quoted in this thread.

Face it, Bible or not, some people see homosexuality as a sickness.

I do not see what this has to do with what we are talking about except the last verse.


If we were not to judge then we would accept everyone regardless of the way they are acting as not only acceptable but equal in Gods eyes.Are you telling me everyone is equal in Gods eyes regardless of the life they are living?If you do you don't know the bible very well because even Christians who are leading unholy lives are ignored by God and Jesus until they repent.


If the bible tells us to avoid associating with people by their actions(which it does thousands of times)are you going to associate with them anyways because you are blind to their actions because you will not judge?Nothing could be worse for a Christian.


What about these Catholic child molesters?Are you going to be silent on this child molester because you would be judging him regardless of what he is doing?


What about our court system in America?Are all those judges evil in Jesus's eyes because they make a living off of judging?Should our court system be abolished?



If I do know someone is a prostitute and I know she rejects the word of God am I doing wrong by saying I am avoiding her because she is a prostitute?This is not wrong judgment.Even if I do get judged by the same standards should I worry?Am I am prostitute leading a ungodly unholy life?


I don't know what to tell you Cowboy since you are having a hard time telling the differences judging people by their actions and avoiding them and judging people by appearance or photographs and making assumptions.I suggest you do some research on the Internet about judging by Christians and understand what is correct and what is not correct because you are ignoring every bible verse I just posted about righteous judgment.

I think you may actually be convinced of your views.
Children are suffering more from this twisted world view
than anyone,
the adults are just getting their groove on.
any way they can.


Yes, I said it!!!

The catholic molesters and all other sinful actions will have their judgement. And no it is fine for our government to make judgements on things that are against the land's law. We have been instructed to obey man's law as well.

And spouting off your own personal feelings is of no consequence.

Are you going to deny that incest is also a part of the natural world? Will you deny that incest is also practiced in breeding?

I agree and there has been countless studies done showing children are most happy and succeed more when there is a mother and father in a normal relationship.

I find it hard to believe that children would think that anal sex between two men is healthy.I also find it hard to believe that children think it's healthy when they have two fathers or two mothers and they ask where babies come from.