Community > General Religion Chat

Topic: Do you think that....
Kleisto Joined Tue 05/13/08 Posts: 5704	Mon 01/03/11 05:27 PM
Do you think that being Christian or Islamic (since they are so similar) makes a person overly obsessed with death/reward so that they cannot live life? Or even truly be themselves and genuine? (living life does not mean debauchery either) I feel that the doctrines are stifling to the person even if they don't realize it. Allowing/coercing them to conceal their real true selves behind a false shield of the religion. Not meaning that their true selves are evil as the religions teach. Example: A person who is a part of one of these religions is associated with a gay person. The two of them are very compatible and a great friendship could happen but the religious person cannot fully love and support the gay person in a healthy way due to misgivings taught by the church. (And "saving" or converting this person is not healthy no matter what you have been told" In this case the real person behind the shield would be a true friend and have a life long close relationship with another loving human. The religious shield cannot allow this person to be genuine because of the fear of hell taught by the church. Causing the religious person to be ungenuine in their relationships due to the doctrines of the church in this case causing fear. No we are not obsessed with anything. And sure a straight Christian could be friends with a homosexual. There's nothing wrong with that, they are just friends. The Christian wouldn't be embracing the sexual activities this homosexual does. They are just friends. We help homosexuals, we help murderers, we help priests, we help the hobo down the street. What label one wishes to give another doesn't make any difference. We love everyone just the same, there is not segregation or anything of such. Back to the subject, yeah it would be just fine for a Christian to be friends with a homosexual. We love all regardless of the activities they may choose to do. By love do you mean "showing them the error of their ways"? Or putting the fear of god into them? Like you do daily? How can a religious person even attend the gay pagan wedding to support their friend or sign papers showing support for the gay couple to adopt? How can the religious person spend every day with the gay person watching them love their partner and not say anything derogatory? Hypocrisy? How is that hypocrisy? Hypocrisy would be one telling another not to do it but doing it themselves. Being a friend of a homosexual and participating in your friend's homosexuality are two totally different things, so no hypocrisy. And as a friend, why would the Christian not try to bring the truth to this homosexual. Point out the fault. Don't treat the person any differently then another, show the person love, caring, and compassion just as one would for any other human being, homosexual, heterosexual, tall, short, skinny, over weight, ect. That all has no baring on how one should treat another. For the simple fact if you treated them any differently because of this attribute you have then judged this person and see him/her at a lower level then the rest of the population. So again yeah even if the person is homosexual, that makes no difference for friends. You're not understanding her point. In pointing out the "fault", you ARE judging them. Maybe you don't think so but you are. How can you geuninely love them for who they truly are, if you're going to tell them they're wrong? It'd be one thing if they actually were, but in this case they're not, the religion just makes you think they are. If I'm doing wrong weather it's legally, in a relationship, or to our father which art in heaven, I would rather the person tell me rather then loose what is precious. Yes but again, it's the religion that is what makes it wrong, not reality. Therein lies the difference. The religion makes nothing, religion is merely a belief. It's not substantial and can not create something. Our father which art in heaven is whom disagrees and does not allow homosexuality. But who tells you that? The religion or God outright??

CowboyGH Joined Mon 10/05/09 Posts: 13651	Mon 01/03/11 05:29 PM
I disagree. If Christianity were about life, reward would not come after death, Reward doesn't come after death, only the grand prize. Which would still be a reward, by how you refer to it. My point was only ONE reward has to wait till you pass away on this earth. All other rewards are received on earth. Either way, it's used as a way to bend one to their will down here. No, if one does it merely because the person has been told to, or even do it just for the reward the action is done in vein and is not full heartedly done. If you do no wish for your will to be with the father's will, then so be it. Who am I to judge. But that is YOUR choice, your decision. And I plead for you to choose wisely.

bumblebee11 Joined Sat 01/01/11 Posts: 129	Mon 01/03/11 05:29 PM
Do you think that being Christian or Islamic (since they are so similar) makes a person overly obsessed with death/reward so that they cannot live life? Or even truly be themselves and genuine? (living life does not mean debauchery either) I feel that the doctrines are stifling to the person even if they don't realize it. Allowing/coercing them to conceal their real true selves behind a false shield of the religion. Not meaning that their true selves are evil as the religions teach. Example: A person who is a part of one of these religions is associated with a gay person. The two of them are very compatible and a great friendship could happen but the religious person cannot fully love and support the gay person in a healthy way due to misgivings taught by the church. (And "saving" or converting this person is not healthy no matter what you have been told" In this case the real person behind the shield would be a true friend and have a life long close relationship with another loving human. The religious shield cannot allow this person to be genuine because of the fear of hell taught by the church. Causing the religious person to be ungenuine in their relationships due to the doctrines of the church in this case causing fear. you got to be kidding about similarities. the only thing similar is that they both are printed on paper, the Bible and the Quran (Koran). No other similarity. Give me a break. Obviously you haven't read either one and know next to nothing about either religious attitudes.

CowboyGH Joined Mon 10/05/09 Posts: 13651	Mon 01/03/11 05:30 PM
Do you think that being Christian or Islamic (since they are so similar) makes a person overly obsessed with death/reward so that they cannot live life? Or even truly be themselves and genuine? (living life does not mean debauchery either) I feel that the doctrines are stifling to the person even if they don't realize it. Allowing/coercing them to conceal their real true selves behind a false shield of the religion. Not meaning that their true selves are evil as the religions teach. Example: A person who is a part of one of these religions is associated with a gay person. The two of them are very compatible and a great friendship could happen but the religious person cannot fully love and support the gay person in a healthy way due to misgivings taught by the church. (And "saving" or converting this person is not healthy no matter what you have been told" In this case the real person behind the shield would be a true friend and have a life long close relationship with another loving human. The religious shield cannot allow this person to be genuine because of the fear of hell taught by the church. Causing the religious person to be ungenuine in their relationships due to the doctrines of the church in this case causing fear. No we are not obsessed with anything. And sure a straight Christian could be friends with a homosexual. There's nothing wrong with that, they are just friends. The Christian wouldn't be embracing the sexual activities this homosexual does. They are just friends. We help homosexuals, we help murderers, we help priests, we help the hobo down the street. What label one wishes to give another doesn't make any difference. We love everyone just the same, there is not segregation or anything of such. Back to the subject, yeah it would be just fine for a Christian to be friends with a homosexual. We love all regardless of the activities they may choose to do. By love do you mean "showing them the error of their ways"? Or putting the fear of god into them? Like you do daily? How can a religious person even attend the gay pagan wedding to support their friend or sign papers showing support for the gay couple to adopt? How can the religious person spend every day with the gay person watching them love their partner and not say anything derogatory? Hypocrisy? How is that hypocrisy? Hypocrisy would be one telling another not to do it but doing it themselves. Being a friend of a homosexual and participating in your friend's homosexuality are two totally different things, so no hypocrisy. And as a friend, why would the Christian not try to bring the truth to this homosexual. Point out the fault. Don't treat the person any differently then another, show the person love, caring, and compassion just as one would for any other human being, homosexual, heterosexual, tall, short, skinny, over weight, ect. That all has no baring on how one should treat another. For the simple fact if you treated them any differently because of this attribute you have then judged this person and see him/her at a lower level then the rest of the population. So again yeah even if the person is homosexual, that makes no difference for friends. You're not understanding her point. In pointing out the "fault", you ARE judging them. Maybe you don't think so but you are. How can you geuninely love them for who they truly are, if you're going to tell them they're wrong? It'd be one thing if they actually were, but in this case they're not, the religion just makes you think they are. If I'm doing wrong weather it's legally, in a relationship, or to our father which art in heaven, I would rather the person tell me rather then loose what is precious. Yes but again, it's the religion that is what makes it wrong, not reality. Therein lies the difference. The religion makes nothing, religion is merely a belief. It's not substantial and can not create something. Our father which art in heaven is whom disagrees and does not allow homosexuality. But who tells you that? The religion or God outright?? God does. God will tell you anything you wish to learn if you open your heart to him. He will show you the world if you wish.

Kleisto Joined Tue 05/13/08 Posts: 5704	Mon 01/03/11 05:32 PM
Do you think that being Christian or Islamic (since they are so similar) makes a person overly obsessed with death/reward so that they cannot live life? Or even truly be themselves and genuine? (living life does not mean debauchery either) I feel that the doctrines are stifling to the person even if they don't realize it. Allowing/coercing them to conceal their real true selves behind a false shield of the religion. Not meaning that their true selves are evil as the religions teach. Example: A person who is a part of one of these religions is associated with a gay person. The two of them are very compatible and a great friendship could happen but the religious person cannot fully love and support the gay person in a healthy way due to misgivings taught by the church. (And "saving" or converting this person is not healthy no matter what you have been told" In this case the real person behind the shield would be a true friend and have a life long close relationship with another loving human. The religious shield cannot allow this person to be genuine because of the fear of hell taught by the church. Causing the religious person to be ungenuine in their relationships due to the doctrines of the church in this case causing fear. No we are not obsessed with anything. And sure a straight Christian could be friends with a homosexual. There's nothing wrong with that, they are just friends. The Christian wouldn't be embracing the sexual activities this homosexual does. They are just friends. We help homosexuals, we help murderers, we help priests, we help the hobo down the street. What label one wishes to give another doesn't make any difference. We love everyone just the same, there is not segregation or anything of such. Back to the subject, yeah it would be just fine for a Christian to be friends with a homosexual. We love all regardless of the activities they may choose to do. By love do you mean "showing them the error of their ways"? Or putting the fear of god into them? Like you do daily? How can a religious person even attend the gay pagan wedding to support their friend or sign papers showing support for the gay couple to adopt? How can the religious person spend every day with the gay person watching them love their partner and not say anything derogatory? Hypocrisy? How is that hypocrisy? Hypocrisy would be one telling another not to do it but doing it themselves. Being a friend of a homosexual and participating in your friend's homosexuality are two totally different things, so no hypocrisy. And as a friend, why would the Christian not try to bring the truth to this homosexual. Point out the fault. Don't treat the person any differently then another, show the person love, caring, and compassion just as one would for any other human being, homosexual, heterosexual, tall, short, skinny, over weight, ect. That all has no baring on how one should treat another. For the simple fact if you treated them any differently because of this attribute you have then judged this person and see him/her at a lower level then the rest of the population. So again yeah even if the person is homosexual, that makes no difference for friends. You're not understanding her point. In pointing out the "fault", you ARE judging them. Maybe you don't think so but you are. How can you geuninely love them for who they truly are, if you're going to tell them they're wrong? It'd be one thing if they actually were, but in this case they're not, the religion just makes you think they are. If I'm doing wrong weather it's legally, in a relationship, or to our father which art in heaven, I would rather the person tell me rather then loose what is precious. Yes but again, it's the religion that is what makes it wrong, not reality. Therein lies the difference. The religion makes nothing, religion is merely a belief. It's not substantial and can not create something. Our father which art in heaven is whom disagrees and does not allow homosexuality. But who tells you that? The religion or God outright?? God does. God will tell you anything you wish to learn if you open your heart to him. He will show you the world if you wish. Ok let me put this another way, without the Bible would you "know" it is wrong?

CowboyGH Joined Mon 10/05/09 Posts: 13651	Mon 01/03/11 05:36 PM
Do you think that being Christian or Islamic (since they are so similar) makes a person overly obsessed with death/reward so that they cannot live life? Or even truly be themselves and genuine? (living life does not mean debauchery either) I feel that the doctrines are stifling to the person even if they don't realize it. Allowing/coercing them to conceal their real true selves behind a false shield of the religion. Not meaning that their true selves are evil as the religions teach. Example: A person who is a part of one of these religions is associated with a gay person. The two of them are very compatible and a great friendship could happen but the religious person cannot fully love and support the gay person in a healthy way due to misgivings taught by the church. (And "saving" or converting this person is not healthy no matter what you have been told" In this case the real person behind the shield would be a true friend and have a life long close relationship with another loving human. The religious shield cannot allow this person to be genuine because of the fear of hell taught by the church. Causing the religious person to be ungenuine in their relationships due to the doctrines of the church in this case causing fear. No we are not obsessed with anything. And sure a straight Christian could be friends with a homosexual. There's nothing wrong with that, they are just friends. The Christian wouldn't be embracing the sexual activities this homosexual does. They are just friends. We help homosexuals, we help murderers, we help priests, we help the hobo down the street. What label one wishes to give another doesn't make any difference. We love everyone just the same, there is not segregation or anything of such. Back to the subject, yeah it would be just fine for a Christian to be friends with a homosexual. We love all regardless of the activities they may choose to do. By love do you mean "showing them the error of their ways"? Or putting the fear of god into them? Like you do daily? How can a religious person even attend the gay pagan wedding to support their friend or sign papers showing support for the gay couple to adopt? How can the religious person spend every day with the gay person watching them love their partner and not say anything derogatory? Hypocrisy? How is that hypocrisy? Hypocrisy would be one telling another not to do it but doing it themselves. Being a friend of a homosexual and participating in your friend's homosexuality are two totally different things, so no hypocrisy. And as a friend, why would the Christian not try to bring the truth to this homosexual. Point out the fault. Don't treat the person any differently then another, show the person love, caring, and compassion just as one would for any other human being, homosexual, heterosexual, tall, short, skinny, over weight, ect. That all has no baring on how one should treat another. For the simple fact if you treated them any differently because of this attribute you have then judged this person and see him/her at a lower level then the rest of the population. So again yeah even if the person is homosexual, that makes no difference for friends. You're not understanding her point. In pointing out the "fault", you ARE judging them. Maybe you don't think so but you are. How can you geuninely love them for who they truly are, if you're going to tell them they're wrong? It'd be one thing if they actually were, but in this case they're not, the religion just makes you think they are. If I'm doing wrong weather it's legally, in a relationship, or to our father which art in heaven, I would rather the person tell me rather then loose what is precious. Yes but again, it's the religion that is what makes it wrong, not reality. Therein lies the difference. The religion makes nothing, religion is merely a belief. It's not substantial and can not create something. Our father which art in heaven is whom disagrees and does not allow homosexuality. But who tells you that? The religion or God outright?? God does. God will tell you anything you wish to learn if you open your heart to him. He will show you the world if you wish. Ok let me put this another way, without the Bible would you "know" it is wrong? Every good hearted person does, weather they are followers of the lord or not. That's where the term good conscience comes from. Someone knows deep down it's wrong to do this or that.

CowboyGH Joined Mon 10/05/09 Posts: 13651	Mon 01/03/11 05:41 PM
Do you think that being Christian or Islamic (since they are so similar) makes a person overly obsessed with death/reward so that they cannot live life? Or even truly be themselves and genuine? (living life does not mean debauchery either) I feel that the doctrines are stifling to the person even if they don't realize it. Allowing/coercing them to conceal their real true selves behind a false shield of the religion. Not meaning that their true selves are evil as the religions teach. Example: A person who is a part of one of these religions is associated with a gay person. The two of them are very compatible and a great friendship could happen but the religious person cannot fully love and support the gay person in a healthy way due to misgivings taught by the church. (And "saving" or converting this person is not healthy no matter what you have been told" In this case the real person behind the shield would be a true friend and have a life long close relationship with another loving human. The religious shield cannot allow this person to be genuine because of the fear of hell taught by the church. Causing the religious person to be ungenuine in their relationships due to the doctrines of the church in this case causing fear. No we are not obsessed with anything. And sure a straight Christian could be friends with a homosexual. There's nothing wrong with that, they are just friends. The Christian wouldn't be embracing the sexual activities this homosexual does. They are just friends. We help homosexuals, we help murderers, we help priests, we help the hobo down the street. What label one wishes to give another doesn't make any difference. We love everyone just the same, there is not segregation or anything of such. Back to the subject, yeah it would be just fine for a Christian to be friends with a homosexual. We love all regardless of the activities they may choose to do. By love do you mean "showing them the error of their ways"? Or putting the fear of god into them? Like you do daily? How can a religious person even attend the gay pagan wedding to support their friend or sign papers showing support for the gay couple to adopt? How can the religious person spend every day with the gay person watching them love their partner and not say anything derogatory? Hypocrisy? How is that hypocrisy? Hypocrisy would be one telling another not to do it but doing it themselves. Being a friend of a homosexual and participating in your friend's homosexuality are two totally different things, so no hypocrisy. And as a friend, why would the Christian not try to bring the truth to this homosexual. Point out the fault. Don't treat the person any differently then another, show the person love, caring, and compassion just as one would for any other human being, homosexual, heterosexual, tall, short, skinny, over weight, ect. That all has no baring on how one should treat another. For the simple fact if you treated them any differently because of this attribute you have then judged this person and see him/her at a lower level then the rest of the population. So again yeah even if the person is homosexual, that makes no difference for friends. You're not understanding her point. In pointing out the "fault", you ARE judging them. Maybe you don't think so but you are. How can you geuninely love them for who they truly are, if you're going to tell them they're wrong? It'd be one thing if they actually were, but in this case they're not, the religion just makes you think they are. If I'm doing wrong weather it's legally, in a relationship, or to our father which art in heaven, I would rather the person tell me rather then loose what is precious. Yes but again, it's the religion that is what makes it wrong, not reality. Therein lies the difference. The religion makes nothing, religion is merely a belief. It's not substantial and can not create something. Our father which art in heaven is whom disagrees and does not allow homosexuality. But who tells you that? The religion or God outright?? God does. God will tell you anything you wish to learn if you open your heart to him. He will show you the world if you wish. Ok let me put this another way, without the Bible would you "know" it is wrong? Every good hearted person does, weather they are followers of the lord or not. That's where the term good conscience comes from. Someone knows deep down it's wrong to do this or that. Reason I made it specific enough to say "good hearted" person. Is because if one isn't a good hearted person they just don't rightly care. They don't care what man's law may say, they don't care how they make another feel, ect.

Dragoness Joined Wed 10/17/07 Posts: 23320	Mon 01/03/11 05:43 PM
Do you think that being Christian or Islamic (since they are so similar) makes a person overly obsessed with death/reward so that they cannot live life? Or even truly be themselves and genuine? (living life does not mean debauchery either) I feel that the doctrines are stifling to the person even if they don't realize it. Allowing/coercing them to conceal their real true selves behind a false shield of the religion. Not meaning that their true selves are evil as the religions teach. Example: A person who is a part of one of these religions is associated with a gay person. The two of them are very compatible and a great friendship could happen but the religious person cannot fully love and support the gay person in a healthy way due to misgivings taught by the church. (And "saving" or converting this person is not healthy no matter what you have been told" In this case the real person behind the shield would be a true friend and have a life long close relationship with another loving human. The religious shield cannot allow this person to be genuine because of the fear of hell taught by the church. Causing the religious person to be ungenuine in their relationships due to the doctrines of the church in this case causing fear. you got to be kidding about similarities. the only thing similar is that they both are printed on paper, the Bible and the Quran (Koran). No other similarity. Give me a break. Obviously you haven't read either one and know next to nothing about either religious attitudes. Oh yea they are very similar. The only real difference is that certain sects of Islam are still following the Old Testament version of their religion. I guess that really isn't a difference it is just that there are less Christians doing the same thing.

Dragoness Joined Wed 10/17/07 Posts: 23320	Mon 01/03/11 05:44 PM
Do you think that being Christian or Islamic (since they are so similar) makes a person overly obsessed with death/reward so that they cannot live life? Or even truly be themselves and genuine? (living life does not mean debauchery either) I feel that the doctrines are stifling to the person even if they don't realize it. Allowing/coercing them to conceal their real true selves behind a false shield of the religion. Not meaning that their true selves are evil as the religions teach. Example: A person who is a part of one of these religions is associated with a gay person. The two of them are very compatible and a great friendship could happen but the religious person cannot fully love and support the gay person in a healthy way due to misgivings taught by the church. (And "saving" or converting this person is not healthy no matter what you have been told" In this case the real person behind the shield would be a true friend and have a life long close relationship with another loving human. The religious shield cannot allow this person to be genuine because of the fear of hell taught by the church. Causing the religious person to be ungenuine in their relationships due to the doctrines of the church in this case causing fear. No we are not obsessed with anything. And sure a straight Christian could be friends with a homosexual. There's nothing wrong with that, they are just friends. The Christian wouldn't be embracing the sexual activities this homosexual does. They are just friends. We help homosexuals, we help murderers, we help priests, we help the hobo down the street. What label one wishes to give another doesn't make any difference. We love everyone just the same, there is not segregation or anything of such. Back to the subject, yeah it would be just fine for a Christian to be friends with a homosexual. We love all regardless of the activities they may choose to do. By love do you mean "showing them the error of their ways"? Or putting the fear of god into them? Like you do daily? How can a religious person even attend the gay pagan wedding to support their friend or sign papers showing support for the gay couple to adopt? How can the religious person spend every day with the gay person watching them love their partner and not say anything derogatory? Hypocrisy? How is that hypocrisy? Hypocrisy would be one telling another not to do it but doing it themselves. Being a friend of a homosexual and participating in your friend's homosexuality are two totally different things, so no hypocrisy. And as a friend, why would the Christian not try to bring the truth to this homosexual. Point out the fault. Don't treat the person any differently then another, show the person love, caring, and compassion just as one would for any other human being, homosexual, heterosexual, tall, short, skinny, over weight, ect. That all has no baring on how one should treat another. For the simple fact if you treated them any differently because of this attribute you have then judged this person and see him/her at a lower level then the rest of the population. So again yeah even if the person is homosexual, that makes no difference for friends. You're not understanding her point. In pointing out the "fault", you ARE judging them. Maybe you don't think so but you are. How can you geuninely love them for who they truly are, if you're going to tell them they're wrong? It'd be one thing if they actually were, but in this case they're not, the religion just makes you think they are. If I'm doing wrong weather it's legally, in a relationship, or to our father which art in heaven, I would rather the person tell me rather then loose what is precious. Yes but again, it's the religion that is what makes it wrong, not reality. Therein lies the difference. The religion makes nothing, religion is merely a belief. It's not substantial and can not create something. Our father which art in heaven is whom disagrees and does not allow homosexuality. But who tells you that? The religion or God outright?? God does. God will tell you anything you wish to learn if you open your heart to him. He will show you the world if you wish.

Kleisto Joined Tue 05/13/08 Posts: 5704	Mon 01/03/11 05:48 PM
Do you think that being Christian or Islamic (since they are so similar) makes a person overly obsessed with death/reward so that they cannot live life? Or even truly be themselves and genuine? (living life does not mean debauchery either) I feel that the doctrines are stifling to the person even if they don't realize it. Allowing/coercing them to conceal their real true selves behind a false shield of the religion. Not meaning that their true selves are evil as the religions teach. Example: A person who is a part of one of these religions is associated with a gay person. The two of them are very compatible and a great friendship could happen but the religious person cannot fully love and support the gay person in a healthy way due to misgivings taught by the church. (And "saving" or converting this person is not healthy no matter what you have been told" In this case the real person behind the shield would be a true friend and have a life long close relationship with another loving human. The religious shield cannot allow this person to be genuine because of the fear of hell taught by the church. Causing the religious person to be ungenuine in their relationships due to the doctrines of the church in this case causing fear. No we are not obsessed with anything. And sure a straight Christian could be friends with a homosexual. There's nothing wrong with that, they are just friends. The Christian wouldn't be embracing the sexual activities this homosexual does. They are just friends. We help homosexuals, we help murderers, we help priests, we help the hobo down the street. What label one wishes to give another doesn't make any difference. We love everyone just the same, there is not segregation or anything of such. Back to the subject, yeah it would be just fine for a Christian to be friends with a homosexual. We love all regardless of the activities they may choose to do. By love do you mean "showing them the error of their ways"? Or putting the fear of god into them? Like you do daily? How can a religious person even attend the gay pagan wedding to support their friend or sign papers showing support for the gay couple to adopt? How can the religious person spend every day with the gay person watching them love their partner and not say anything derogatory? Hypocrisy? How is that hypocrisy? Hypocrisy would be one telling another not to do it but doing it themselves. Being a friend of a homosexual and participating in your friend's homosexuality are two totally different things, so no hypocrisy. And as a friend, why would the Christian not try to bring the truth to this homosexual. Point out the fault. Don't treat the person any differently then another, show the person love, caring, and compassion just as one would for any other human being, homosexual, heterosexual, tall, short, skinny, over weight, ect. That all has no baring on how one should treat another. For the simple fact if you treated them any differently because of this attribute you have then judged this person and see him/her at a lower level then the rest of the population. So again yeah even if the person is homosexual, that makes no difference for friends. You're not understanding her point. In pointing out the "fault", you ARE judging them. Maybe you don't think so but you are. How can you geuninely love them for who they truly are, if you're going to tell them they're wrong? It'd be one thing if they actually were, but in this case they're not, the religion just makes you think they are. If I'm doing wrong weather it's legally, in a relationship, or to our father which art in heaven, I would rather the person tell me rather then loose what is precious. Yes but again, it's the religion that is what makes it wrong, not reality. Therein lies the difference. The religion makes nothing, religion is merely a belief. It's not substantial and can not create something. Our father which art in heaven is whom disagrees and does not allow homosexuality. But who tells you that? The religion or God outright?? God does. God will tell you anything you wish to learn if you open your heart to him. He will show you the world if you wish. Ok let me put this another way, without the Bible would you "know" it is wrong? Every good hearted person does, weather they are followers of the lord or not. That's where the term good conscience comes from. Someone knows deep down it's wrong to do this or that. But what if they truly love the person, gender or not? How can you say they "know" that's wrong?

CowboyGH Joined Mon 10/05/09 Posts: 13651	Mon 01/03/11 05:54 PM
Do you think that being Christian or Islamic (since they are so similar) makes a person overly obsessed with death/reward so that they cannot live life? Or even truly be themselves and genuine? (living life does not mean debauchery either) I feel that the doctrines are stifling to the person even if they don't realize it. Allowing/coercing them to conceal their real true selves behind a false shield of the religion. Not meaning that their true selves are evil as the religions teach. Example: A person who is a part of one of these religions is associated with a gay person. The two of them are very compatible and a great friendship could happen but the religious person cannot fully love and support the gay person in a healthy way due to misgivings taught by the church. (And "saving" or converting this person is not healthy no matter what you have been told" In this case the real person behind the shield would be a true friend and have a life long close relationship with another loving human. The religious shield cannot allow this person to be genuine because of the fear of hell taught by the church. Causing the religious person to be ungenuine in their relationships due to the doctrines of the church in this case causing fear. No we are not obsessed with anything. And sure a straight Christian could be friends with a homosexual. There's nothing wrong with that, they are just friends. The Christian wouldn't be embracing the sexual activities this homosexual does. They are just friends. We help homosexuals, we help murderers, we help priests, we help the hobo down the street. What label one wishes to give another doesn't make any difference. We love everyone just the same, there is not segregation or anything of such. Back to the subject, yeah it would be just fine for a Christian to be friends with a homosexual. We love all regardless of the activities they may choose to do. By love do you mean "showing them the error of their ways"? Or putting the fear of god into them? Like you do daily? How can a religious person even attend the gay pagan wedding to support their friend or sign papers showing support for the gay couple to adopt? How can the religious person spend every day with the gay person watching them love their partner and not say anything derogatory? Hypocrisy? How is that hypocrisy? Hypocrisy would be one telling another not to do it but doing it themselves. Being a friend of a homosexual and participating in your friend's homosexuality are two totally different things, so no hypocrisy. And as a friend, why would the Christian not try to bring the truth to this homosexual. Point out the fault. Don't treat the person any differently then another, show the person love, caring, and compassion just as one would for any other human being, homosexual, heterosexual, tall, short, skinny, over weight, ect. That all has no baring on how one should treat another. For the simple fact if you treated them any differently because of this attribute you have then judged this person and see him/her at a lower level then the rest of the population. So again yeah even if the person is homosexual, that makes no difference for friends. You're not understanding her point. In pointing out the "fault", you ARE judging them. Maybe you don't think so but you are. How can you geuninely love them for who they truly are, if you're going to tell them they're wrong? It'd be one thing if they actually were, but in this case they're not, the religion just makes you think they are. If I'm doing wrong weather it's legally, in a relationship, or to our father which art in heaven, I would rather the person tell me rather then loose what is precious. Yes but again, it's the religion that is what makes it wrong, not reality. Therein lies the difference. The religion makes nothing, religion is merely a belief. It's not substantial and can not create something. Our father which art in heaven is whom disagrees and does not allow homosexuality. But who tells you that? The religion or God outright?? God does. God will tell you anything you wish to learn if you open your heart to him. He will show you the world if you wish. Ok let me put this another way, without the Bible would you "know" it is wrong? Every good hearted person does, weather they are followers of the lord or not. That's where the term good conscience comes from. Someone knows deep down it's wrong to do this or that. But what if they truly love the person, gender or not? How can you say they "know" that's wrong? I love everyone, I love you, I love funches. I would not sleep with either one of you though. That's where the decision on an action comes in. Just because you love someone does not mean you have to sleep with them, and that is exactly what homosexuality is. It is sexual actions between two people of the same gender. Same gender sex has no productivity. Sex is for REPRODUCTION. Homosexuals can not reproduce from having sex with one another, it is purely for the physical pleasure, the lustful desire.

KerryO Joined Sat 03/17/07 Posts: 1738	Mon 01/03/11 05:55 PM
Every good hearted person does, weather they are followers of the lord or not. That's where the term good conscience comes from. Someone knows deep down it's wrong to do this or that. So, you've actually asked every 'good hearted person' and they ALL say this? I don't think so. I know LOTS of good-hearted Christians from the "Religious Left" who don't think homosexuality is a choice and don't think a loving, committed, monogamous relationship between same sex partners is morally wrong. It's pretty much only the Extremists who constantly beat this drum. -Kerry O.

Kleisto Joined Tue 05/13/08 Posts: 5704	Mon 01/03/11 05:55 PM
Do you think that being Christian or Islamic (since they are so similar) makes a person overly obsessed with death/reward so that they cannot live life? Or even truly be themselves and genuine? (living life does not mean debauchery either) I feel that the doctrines are stifling to the person even if they don't realize it. Allowing/coercing them to conceal their real true selves behind a false shield of the religion. Not meaning that their true selves are evil as the religions teach. Example: A person who is a part of one of these religions is associated with a gay person. The two of them are very compatible and a great friendship could happen but the religious person cannot fully love and support the gay person in a healthy way due to misgivings taught by the church. (And "saving" or converting this person is not healthy no matter what you have been told" In this case the real person behind the shield would be a true friend and have a life long close relationship with another loving human. The religious shield cannot allow this person to be genuine because of the fear of hell taught by the church. Causing the religious person to be ungenuine in their relationships due to the doctrines of the church in this case causing fear. No we are not obsessed with anything. And sure a straight Christian could be friends with a homosexual. There's nothing wrong with that, they are just friends. The Christian wouldn't be embracing the sexual activities this homosexual does. They are just friends. We help homosexuals, we help murderers, we help priests, we help the hobo down the street. What label one wishes to give another doesn't make any difference. We love everyone just the same, there is not segregation or anything of such. Back to the subject, yeah it would be just fine for a Christian to be friends with a homosexual. We love all regardless of the activities they may choose to do. By love do you mean "showing them the error of their ways"? Or putting the fear of god into them? Like you do daily? How can a religious person even attend the gay pagan wedding to support their friend or sign papers showing support for the gay couple to adopt? How can the religious person spend every day with the gay person watching them love their partner and not say anything derogatory? Hypocrisy? How is that hypocrisy? Hypocrisy would be one telling another not to do it but doing it themselves. Being a friend of a homosexual and participating in your friend's homosexuality are two totally different things, so no hypocrisy. And as a friend, why would the Christian not try to bring the truth to this homosexual. Point out the fault. Don't treat the person any differently then another, show the person love, caring, and compassion just as one would for any other human being, homosexual, heterosexual, tall, short, skinny, over weight, ect. That all has no baring on how one should treat another. For the simple fact if you treated them any differently because of this attribute you have then judged this person and see him/her at a lower level then the rest of the population. So again yeah even if the person is homosexual, that makes no difference for friends. You're not understanding her point. In pointing out the "fault", you ARE judging them. Maybe you don't think so but you are. How can you geuninely love them for who they truly are, if you're going to tell them they're wrong? It'd be one thing if they actually were, but in this case they're not, the religion just makes you think they are. If I'm doing wrong weather it's legally, in a relationship, or to our father which art in heaven, I would rather the person tell me rather then loose what is precious. Yes but again, it's the religion that is what makes it wrong, not reality. Therein lies the difference. The religion makes nothing, religion is merely a belief. It's not substantial and can not create something. Our father which art in heaven is whom disagrees and does not allow homosexuality. But who tells you that? The religion or God outright?? God does. God will tell you anything you wish to learn if you open your heart to him. He will show you the world if you wish. Ok let me put this another way, without the Bible would you "know" it is wrong? Every good hearted person does, weather they are followers of the lord or not. That's where the term good conscience comes from. Someone knows deep down it's wrong to do this or that. But what if they truly love the person, gender or not? How can you say they "know" that's wrong? I love everyone, I love you, I love funches. I would not sleep with either one of you though. That's where the decision on an action comes in. Just because you love someone does not mean you have to sleep with them, and that is exactly what homosexuality is. It is sexual actions between two people of the same gender. Same gender sex has no productivity. Sex is for REPRODUCTION. Homosexuals can not reproduce from having sex with one another, it is purely for the physical pleasure, the lustful desire. But then you are denying them what they truly desire. How is that fair to them?

KerryO Joined Sat 03/17/07 Posts: 1738	Mon 01/03/11 05:59 PM
I love everyone, I love you, I love funches. I would not sleep with either one of you though. That's where the decision on an action comes in. Just because you love someone does not mean you have to sleep with them, and that is exactly what homosexuality is. It is sexual actions between two people of the same gender. Same gender sex has no productivity. Sex is for REPRODUCTION. Homosexuals can not reproduce from having sex with one another, it is purely for the physical pleasure, the lustful desire. So, sterile people MUST abstain, too? And birth control is evil? (Even the recent Popes are lying low on that last one because they don't want an open revolt.) -Kerry O.

CowboyGH Joined Mon 10/05/09 Posts: 13651	Mon 01/03/11 06:00 PM
Do you think that being Christian or Islamic (since they are so similar) makes a person overly obsessed with death/reward so that they cannot live life? Or even truly be themselves and genuine? (living life does not mean debauchery either) I feel that the doctrines are stifling to the person even if they don't realize it. Allowing/coercing them to conceal their real true selves behind a false shield of the religion. Not meaning that their true selves are evil as the religions teach. Example: A person who is a part of one of these religions is associated with a gay person. The two of them are very compatible and a great friendship could happen but the religious person cannot fully love and support the gay person in a healthy way due to misgivings taught by the church. (And "saving" or converting this person is not healthy no matter what you have been told" In this case the real person behind the shield would be a true friend and have a life long close relationship with another loving human. The religious shield cannot allow this person to be genuine because of the fear of hell taught by the church. Causing the religious person to be ungenuine in their relationships due to the doctrines of the church in this case causing fear. No we are not obsessed with anything. And sure a straight Christian could be friends with a homosexual. There's nothing wrong with that, they are just friends. The Christian wouldn't be embracing the sexual activities this homosexual does. They are just friends. We help homosexuals, we help murderers, we help priests, we help the hobo down the street. What label one wishes to give another doesn't make any difference. We love everyone just the same, there is not segregation or anything of such. Back to the subject, yeah it would be just fine for a Christian to be friends with a homosexual. We love all regardless of the activities they may choose to do. By love do you mean "showing them the error of their ways"? Or putting the fear of god into them? Like you do daily? How can a religious person even attend the gay pagan wedding to support their friend or sign papers showing support for the gay couple to adopt? How can the religious person spend every day with the gay person watching them love their partner and not say anything derogatory? Hypocrisy? How is that hypocrisy? Hypocrisy would be one telling another not to do it but doing it themselves. Being a friend of a homosexual and participating in your friend's homosexuality are two totally different things, so no hypocrisy. And as a friend, why would the Christian not try to bring the truth to this homosexual. Point out the fault. Don't treat the person any differently then another, show the person love, caring, and compassion just as one would for any other human being, homosexual, heterosexual, tall, short, skinny, over weight, ect. That all has no baring on how one should treat another. For the simple fact if you treated them any differently because of this attribute you have then judged this person and see him/her at a lower level then the rest of the population. So again yeah even if the person is homosexual, that makes no difference for friends. You're not understanding her point. In pointing out the "fault", you ARE judging them. Maybe you don't think so but you are. How can you geuninely love them for who they truly are, if you're going to tell them they're wrong? It'd be one thing if they actually were, but in this case they're not, the religion just makes you think they are. If I'm doing wrong weather it's legally, in a relationship, or to our father which art in heaven, I would rather the person tell me rather then loose what is precious. Yes but again, it's the religion that is what makes it wrong, not reality. Therein lies the difference. The religion makes nothing, religion is merely a belief. It's not substantial and can not create something. Our father which art in heaven is whom disagrees and does not allow homosexuality. But who tells you that? The religion or God outright?? God does. God will tell you anything you wish to learn if you open your heart to him. He will show you the world if you wish. Ok let me put this another way, without the Bible would you "know" it is wrong? Every good hearted person does, weather they are followers of the lord or not. That's where the term good conscience comes from. Someone knows deep down it's wrong to do this or that. But what if they truly love the person, gender or not? How can you say they "know" that's wrong? I love everyone, I love you, I love funches. I would not sleep with either one of you though. That's where the decision on an action comes in. Just because you love someone does not mean you have to sleep with them, and that is exactly what homosexuality is. It is sexual actions between two people of the same gender. Same gender sex has no productivity. Sex is for REPRODUCTION. Homosexuals can not reproduce from having sex with one another, it is purely for the physical pleasure, the lustful desire. But then you are denying them what they truly desire. How is that fair to them? You'll answer your question with the answering of my questions - If one truly desires to kill the president. How is fair to deny them of this? - If one truly desires to rob your family of everything you have. How is it fair to deny them of this? Both examples may bring incredibly great joy to someone, why deny them of it?

CowboyGH Joined Mon 10/05/09 Posts: 13651	Mon 01/03/11 06:02 PM
I love everyone, I love you, I love funches. I would not sleep with either one of you though. That's where the decision on an action comes in. Just because you love someone does not mean you have to sleep with them, and that is exactly what homosexuality is. It is sexual actions between two people of the same gender. Same gender sex has no productivity. Sex is for REPRODUCTION. Homosexuals can not reproduce from having sex with one another, it is purely for the physical pleasure, the lustful desire. So, sterile people MUST abstain, too? And birth control is evil? (Even the recent Popes are lying low on that last one because they don't want an open revolt.) -Kerry O. Yes birth control is wrong. Again sex is for reproduction. And yes sterile people would then have to abstain. Why the big ruckess over sex? If not done for reproduction, what is so majorly important about sex? Why is it that valuable to you?

Kleisto Joined Tue 05/13/08 Posts: 5704	Mon 01/03/11 06:07 PM
I love everyone, I love you, I love funches. I would not sleep with either one of you though. That's where the decision on an action comes in. Just because you love someone does not mean you have to sleep with them, and that is exactly what homosexuality is. It is sexual actions between two people of the same gender. Same gender sex has no productivity. Sex is for REPRODUCTION. Homosexuals can not reproduce from having sex with one another, it is purely for the physical pleasure, the lustful desire. So, sterile people MUST abstain, too? And birth control is evil? (Even the recent Popes are lying low on that last one because they don't want an open revolt.) -Kerry O. Yes birth control is wrong. Again sex is for reproduction. And yes sterile people would then have to abstain. Why the big ruckess over sex? If not done for reproduction, what is so majorly important about sex? Why is it that valuable to you? Wow...... Are you going to tell me then that when a married couple has reached a point where they can no longer produce children that....they have to stop having sex? As for the other part......why would God make it feel so good if it was just for reproduction? Obviously you don't wanna use it in ways that demean the value of it, but.....part of the value of it is giving yourself out of love to another person. That knows no gender if you ask me.

KerryO Joined Sat 03/17/07 Posts: 1738	Mon 01/03/11 06:08 PM
But then you are denying them what they truly desire. How is that fair to them? It's typical Bible Thumper logic. The Bible Thumper is one with God Almighty and believes that they are of the same mind as God. Since 'God' doesn't approve, neither can they. So, if the Thumper beams enough Love at the ones which they disapprove of, the homosexuals will become "Straight Like Me." Incongruity solved. -Kerry O.

Kleisto Joined Tue 05/13/08 Posts: 5704	Mon 01/03/11 06:08 PM
Do you think that being Christian or Islamic (since they are so similar) makes a person overly obsessed with death/reward so that they cannot live life? Or even truly be themselves and genuine? (living life does not mean debauchery either) I feel that the doctrines are stifling to the person even if they don't realize it. Allowing/coercing them to conceal their real true selves behind a false shield of the religion. Not meaning that their true selves are evil as the religions teach. Example: A person who is a part of one of these religions is associated with a gay person. The two of them are very compatible and a great friendship could happen but the religious person cannot fully love and support the gay person in a healthy way due to misgivings taught by the church. (And "saving" or converting this person is not healthy no matter what you have been told" In this case the real person behind the shield would be a true friend and have a life long close relationship with another loving human. The religious shield cannot allow this person to be genuine because of the fear of hell taught by the church. Causing the religious person to be ungenuine in their relationships due to the doctrines of the church in this case causing fear. No we are not obsessed with anything. And sure a straight Christian could be friends with a homosexual. There's nothing wrong with that, they are just friends. The Christian wouldn't be embracing the sexual activities this homosexual does. They are just friends. We help homosexuals, we help murderers, we help priests, we help the hobo down the street. What label one wishes to give another doesn't make any difference. We love everyone just the same, there is not segregation or anything of such. Back to the subject, yeah it would be just fine for a Christian to be friends with a homosexual. We love all regardless of the activities they may choose to do. By love do you mean "showing them the error of their ways"? Or putting the fear of god into them? Like you do daily? How can a religious person even attend the gay pagan wedding to support their friend or sign papers showing support for the gay couple to adopt? How can the religious person spend every day with the gay person watching them love their partner and not say anything derogatory? Hypocrisy? How is that hypocrisy? Hypocrisy would be one telling another not to do it but doing it themselves. Being a friend of a homosexual and participating in your friend's homosexuality are two totally different things, so no hypocrisy. And as a friend, why would the Christian not try to bring the truth to this homosexual. Point out the fault. Don't treat the person any differently then another, show the person love, caring, and compassion just as one would for any other human being, homosexual, heterosexual, tall, short, skinny, over weight, ect. That all has no baring on how one should treat another. For the simple fact if you treated them any differently because of this attribute you have then judged this person and see him/her at a lower level then the rest of the population. So again yeah even if the person is homosexual, that makes no difference for friends. You're not understanding her point. In pointing out the "fault", you ARE judging them. Maybe you don't think so but you are. How can you geuninely love them for who they truly are, if you're going to tell them they're wrong? It'd be one thing if they actually were, but in this case they're not, the religion just makes you think they are. If I'm doing wrong weather it's legally, in a relationship, or to our father which art in heaven, I would rather the person tell me rather then loose what is precious. Yes but again, it's the religion that is what makes it wrong, not reality. Therein lies the difference. The religion makes nothing, religion is merely a belief. It's not substantial and can not create something. Our father which art in heaven is whom disagrees and does not allow homosexuality. But who tells you that? The religion or God outright?? God does. God will tell you anything you wish to learn if you open your heart to him. He will show you the world if you wish. Ok let me put this another way, without the Bible would you "know" it is wrong? Every good hearted person does, weather they are followers of the lord or not. That's where the term good conscience comes from. Someone knows deep down it's wrong to do this or that. But what if they truly love the person, gender or not? How can you say they "know" that's wrong? I love everyone, I love you, I love funches. I would not sleep with either one of you though. That's where the decision on an action comes in. Just because you love someone does not mean you have to sleep with them, and that is exactly what homosexuality is. It is sexual actions between two people of the same gender. Same gender sex has no productivity. Sex is for REPRODUCTION. Homosexuals can not reproduce from having sex with one another, it is purely for the physical pleasure, the lustful desire. But then you are denying them what they truly desire. How is that fair to them? You'll answer your question with the answering of my questions - If one truly desires to kill the president. How is fair to deny them of this? - If one truly desires to rob your family of everything you have. How is it fair to deny them of this? Both examples may bring incredibly great joy to someone, why deny them of it? Umm because you are HARMING another person in so doing?? Seems rather obvious to me what the problem is there. In the case of this, who are you harming?? Nobody.

CowboyGH Joined Mon 10/05/09 Posts: 13651	Mon 01/03/11 06:13 PM
Do you think that being Christian or Islamic (since they are so similar) makes a person overly obsessed with death/reward so that they cannot live life? Or even truly be themselves and genuine? (living life does not mean debauchery either) I feel that the doctrines are stifling to the person even if they don't realize it. Allowing/coercing them to conceal their real true selves behind a false shield of the religion. Not meaning that their true selves are evil as the religions teach. Example: A person who is a part of one of these religions is associated with a gay person. The two of them are very compatible and a great friendship could happen but the religious person cannot fully love and support the gay person in a healthy way due to misgivings taught by the church. (And "saving" or converting this person is not healthy no matter what you have been told" In this case the real person behind the shield would be a true friend and have a life long close relationship with another loving human. The religious shield cannot allow this person to be genuine because of the fear of hell taught by the church. Causing the religious person to be ungenuine in their relationships due to the doctrines of the church in this case causing fear. No we are not obsessed with anything. And sure a straight Christian could be friends with a homosexual. There's nothing wrong with that, they are just friends. The Christian wouldn't be embracing the sexual activities this homosexual does. They are just friends. We help homosexuals, we help murderers, we help priests, we help the hobo down the street. What label one wishes to give another doesn't make any difference. We love everyone just the same, there is not segregation or anything of such. Back to the subject, yeah it would be just fine for a Christian to be friends with a homosexual. We love all regardless of the activities they may choose to do. By love do you mean "showing them the error of their ways"? Or putting the fear of god into them? Like you do daily? How can a religious person even attend the gay pagan wedding to support their friend or sign papers showing support for the gay couple to adopt? How can the religious person spend every day with the gay person watching them love their partner and not say anything derogatory? Hypocrisy? How is that hypocrisy? Hypocrisy would be one telling another not to do it but doing it themselves. Being a friend of a homosexual and participating in your friend's homosexuality are two totally different things, so no hypocrisy. And as a friend, why would the Christian not try to bring the truth to this homosexual. Point out the fault. Don't treat the person any differently then another, show the person love, caring, and compassion just as one would for any other human being, homosexual, heterosexual, tall, short, skinny, over weight, ect. That all has no baring on how one should treat another. For the simple fact if you treated them any differently because of this attribute you have then judged this person and see him/her at a lower level then the rest of the population. So again yeah even if the person is homosexual, that makes no difference for friends. You're not understanding her point. In pointing out the "fault", you ARE judging them. Maybe you don't think so but you are. How can you geuninely love them for who they truly are, if you're going to tell them they're wrong? It'd be one thing if they actually were, but in this case they're not, the religion just makes you think they are. If I'm doing wrong weather it's legally, in a relationship, or to our father which art in heaven, I would rather the person tell me rather then loose what is precious. Yes but again, it's the religion that is what makes it wrong, not reality. Therein lies the difference. The religion makes nothing, religion is merely a belief. It's not substantial and can not create something. Our father which art in heaven is whom disagrees and does not allow homosexuality. But who tells you that? The religion or God outright?? God does. God will tell you anything you wish to learn if you open your heart to him. He will show you the world if you wish. Ok let me put this another way, without the Bible would you "know" it is wrong? Every good hearted person does, weather they are followers of the lord or not. That's where the term good conscience comes from. Someone knows deep down it's wrong to do this or that. But what if they truly love the person, gender or not? How can you say they "know" that's wrong? I love everyone, I love you, I love funches. I would not sleep with either one of you though. That's where the decision on an action comes in. Just because you love someone does not mean you have to sleep with them, and that is exactly what homosexuality is. It is sexual actions between two people of the same gender. Same gender sex has no productivity. Sex is for REPRODUCTION. Homosexuals can not reproduce from having sex with one another, it is purely for the physical pleasure, the lustful desire. But then you are denying them what they truly desire. How is that fair to them? You'll answer your question with the answering of my questions - If one truly desires to kill the president. How is fair to deny them of this? - If one truly desires to rob your family of everything you have. How is it fair to deny them of this? Both examples may bring incredibly great joy to someone, why deny them of it? Umm because you are HARMING another person in so doing?? Seems rather obvious to me what the problem is there. In the case of this, who are you harming?? Nobody. You aren't harming anyone? hmmm 1. Homosexuality is a great cause/spreader of STD's 2. No child comes of your sexual actions, and that would be depriving someone of making a family eg., The homosexual partners could be with a heterosexual making a family. Mostly with #2 is why it's wrong, for sex is for just that, reproduction.