Anyone who refuses God's pure message,

being selective of what he wants to believe,

has split Gods word...

Agnosticism does not equate to 'doubt'.

On the contrary agnosticism is honesty.

All honest people must confess that they are indeed agnostic when it comes to God, unless they they are claiming to have divine knowledge that genuinely exceeds the knowledge of other human beings.

Agnostic simply means "without knowledge". It does not mean "to doubt".

The God you proselytize is a God of hate.

Your God hates honesty.

Your God hates those who confess to be without divine knowledge.

I cannot be honest and get to your God.

The only way I can get to your God is through lies and deception.

What kind of a God would hate honesty?

A non-believer is simply confessing their TRUTH.

Your God hates TRUTH evidently.

Your God hates those who disbelieve or doubt, or simply have enough honest integrity to confess that they cannot know if a God truly exists.

You God hates heathens, and every honest person must necessarily be a heathen.

For even for you to claim to 'believe' you must 'pretend'.

Your God fosters pretense over honest.

Your God hates honesty and rejects those who are honest, open, and sincere.

You worship a God of hatred who favors those who are willing to pretend to know something they cannot know and to preach their lies as though they represent truth. You cannot be an honest person and get to the God that you worship, only those who are willing to abandon honesty and favor pretense will be accepted by your hateful God.


No honesty is permitted in your religion.

Honesty is seen as rejection of God.

Only pretense is embraced with open arms.

What kind of a religion is that?

But where could we possibly find "God's word"?

You keep posting verses from the Bible, but the Bible is filled with bigotry, hatred and ignorance, it can't possible be the word of any God.

Where would we find the "Word of God"?

Should we turn to the teachings of Buddha? Or Confucius? Or maybe turn to the spiritual views of Wicca that teaches actual love?

We'd need to find "God's Word" before we can begin to follow it.

The God you proselytize is a God of hate.

Your God hates honesty.

Your God hates those who confess to be without divine knowledge.

I cannot be honest and get to your God.

The only way I can get to your God is through lies and deception.

What kind of a God would hate honesty?

A non-believer is simply confessing their TRUTH.

Your God hates TRUTH evidently.

Your God hates those who disbelieve or doubt, or simply have enough honest integrity to confess that they cannot know if a God truly exists.

You God hates heathens, and every honest person must necessarily be a heathen.

For even for you to claim to 'believe' you must 'pretend'.

Your God fosters pretense over honest.

Your God hates honesty and rejects those who are honest, open, and sincere.

You worship a God of hatred who favors those who are willing to pretend to know something they cannot know and to preach their lies as though they represent truth. You cannot be an honest person and get to the God that you worship, only those who are willing to abandon honesty and favor pretense will be accepted by your hateful God.


No honesty is permitted in your religion.

Honesty is seen as rejection of God.

Only pretense is embraced with open arms.

What kind of a religion is that?

Well, you're speaking of one particular mythology, as well as one very fundamental interpretation of that.

I personally feel that the biblical stories are far too unwise to be describing a being that could have been capable of creating this universe anyway. I mean, those stories flunk on basic common sense, IMHO. No science required to reject them.



Well, the scientist that you admire have shown us that the universe as we know it hasn't always existed. So even if that were a possibility in general, it can't be applied to our universe. For all intents and purposes the Big Bang has been proven to have occurred beyond any reasonable doubt. Of course, the quantum fields and the foundation of the laws of physics that govern this universe may very well have always existed.

In fact, the very concept of time itself as we perceive it to be may very well be solely a property of this physical universe and may not even be a relevant or meaningful concept to something like a quantum field.

From a deeply philosophical point of view, you could say that our physical universe is a result of "information" that preexisted it. And the truly intriguing question there is to ask where and how that non-physical information exists.

Whether the universe always existed or a 'god' always existed is basically a moot point. Especially if the universe is nothing more than a facet of "god".

The way I look at it is like this:

Everything that is you belongs to this universe.

Everything that is you is a property of this universe.

If you are nothing more than this universe taking form, then you are obviously just a form of this universe.

In other words, there was never a time when you were not, nor will there ever be a time when you will cease to exist. All you can really do is change form, because you are this universe.

There is nothing else to be.

Sounds to me like your just hung up on a particular idea of a 'Zeus-like' egotistical God who 'creates things' external to himself somehow. Of course, that's the biblical picture as well.

Like I said before, I feel that it's an extreme shame that people seem to have this basic "ON/OFF" switch when it comes to ideas of God.

They either expect that a particular mythology must be true, or there must not be any such thing as a "god" at all.

How limited is that?

Why does it need to be one or the other?

There are far deeper possibilities.

And gee whiz, if we're going to consider the possibility of something as grand as an 'eternal spirit' why put such petty limitations on it?

If eternal spirit exists, we're it.

There is nothing else to be.

Unless you think in terms of meaningless dust (i.e. random atoms).

But if you're thinking that way, then what is it that is reading these words right now? Nothing more than a very large pile of atoms?

Why would those atoms be able to 'perceive' anything no matter how complex they have become?

How complex would a computer need to be before it actually EXPERIENCES the perception of THOUGHT.

And what would be experiencing that thought? The hardware? The software? Or the mysterious spiritware?

Something must be going on beyond the hardware and software. Something is perceiving the words on this screen other than the atoms that make up your brain.

What is that? Who are you?

Knock, knock. Anybody home?

Who's in there?

Come out, come out, whoever you are.

I personally feel that the biblical stories are far too unwise to be describing a being that could have been capable of creating this universe anyway. I mean, those stories flunk on basic common sense, IMHO. No science required to reject them.

What grounds do you have to support as such? This is PURELY opinionated.

And on the rest of your post no the rest of the universe hasn't always been like it is now. We've already been told about this. The bible specifically tells us this. So you're gonna tell me people thousands of years ago had knowledge of things being discovered in today's world... hmmm.

Everything that is you belongs to this universe.

Everything that is you is a property of this universe.

And where exactly do you get this from?

Is it just your opinion or does the Bible actually say this?

It is my honest sincere opinion that the Bible portrays a truly stupid, ignorant, and hateful God.

Therefore, if it is a sin to reject the Bible as the word of God, then I am a sinner. And the biblical God hates those who sin.

Therefore, the Biblical God must hate me. Because the Biblical God hates heathens, and by that definition I'm a heathen.

But I'm only a heathen because I am honest and truthful.

Therefore the Biblical God must necessarily hate me for being honest and truthful, for that is all I am doing.

~~~~~

The bottom line for me Peter is that I see the Bible as nothing more than the bigoted and judgmental opinions of a very rude and crude, and obviously male-chauvinistic society.

Therefore, from my point of view, to worship the Bible as the "Word of God" is to do nothing more than to worship the opinions of a rude and crude society as if they are the wanton desires of some egotistical judgmental Godhead who hates heathens.

So if the Bible truly is the "Word of some God", then that God has no choice but to hate me for being HONEST and SINCERE.

It would be a God who hates honesty and sincerity.

Therefore, if it is a sin to reject the Bible as the word of God, then I am a sinner. And the biblical God hates those who sin

Therefore, from my point of view, to worship the Bible as the "Word of God" is to do nothing more than to worship the opinions of a rude and crude society as if they are the wanton desires of some egotistical judgmental Godhead who hates heathens.

CeriseRose asks:

Which of these do you endorse? Are you a resentative of all these religions?

Which of their virtues do you display?

Love????
IMHO, I've not seen these, or any of their morals, displayed as of yet. Not here. But then, no one has to be accountable to those religions...right???

Cowboy wrote:

It tells us quite the contrary. It tells us not to judge people, for again we are all sinners and fall short of the glory of God.

Well, in my honest sincere opinion, what you say here is an oxymoron.

You say that the Bible teaches you not to judge people and then in the very same breath you confess that this same book teaches you to judge ALL to be sinners who have fallen short of the glory of God.

It even has you judging yourself by this same standard. Just because you put yourself down along with everyone else doesn't change the fact that you're basically judging everyone to be a sinner based on what your religion teaches you to believe.

Your religion has taught you to judge everyone including yourself.

Just the opposite of what you are attempting to claim here.

I made no judgement. I'm merely relaying knowledge previously given to us.

Cowboy wrote:

I made no judgement. I'm merely relaying knowledge previously given to us.

Cowboy wrote:

Romans 3:23

23For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Well, like I say, you're just teaching other people the same things that your religion teaches you.

Your religion teaches everyone that all are sinners.

And where does this come from?,...



It's basically just Paul's opinion.

I disagree with Paul.

So there.

You survived this tragedy didn't you? You're still alive aren't you? This problem didn't cost you your life did it? So where is it not perfect? It survived the problem perfectly or else you wouldn't still be here.

Yes you can give the credit to the doctors if you want. God works through people my friend, he is the one that gives people the ability to do things they do in this world. But again, you're more then welcome to give the credit where you wish.

Cowboy wrote:

It's just as much fact as anything else you may think to be a fact. The entire bible will teach you that we are all sinners, not as upfront and outright as the statement made here. But through the message you'll gather that much. And I can prove to you that all are sinners and fall short of the glory of God.

1. Do you know anyone that has NEVER lied in their life? This is including what people may consider to be "white lies" or stretching the truth, or whatever you wish to call it. They are nevertheless a lie.
2. Do you know of someone that has NEVER mistreated someone causing them some form of emotional pain?

And so on and so on, the list goes on. There is not one person that fits under even these two. Yes someone may fit under one of them, but not under both. No one has ever achieved this but Jesus Christ. Therefore all have sinned. A sin isn't just something big as in murdering, stealing, or anything of that nature. Sins range anywhere from hurting someone intentionally emotional wise to killing hundreds of people.

A lot of people don't survive these episodes. I suppose that's God Will, too. Heads, God wins. Tails, humans lose and die or become the walking wounded (after of course, they do enough physical therapy to be ABLE to walk again (which I guess God get's credit for, too)).

Besides, you're missing the whole point- it was a identifiable IMPERFECTION that caused all this, not whether I survived it where others haven't. See, for someone who hadn't gone through 8 days of pure hell in a neurological ICU (and that was only last time) in constant pain even though I was on enough killer intravenous narcotics to virtually have shut my body down, this is just a thought experiment that keeps you them in their comfort zone vis-a-vis religious belief. The question you obviously CAN'T ask yourself is "Why would God do this?"

You can't because, never having gone through it, it holds no 'shadow' for you-- you have no referents, only your unshakeable faith that was never put to the test by Trial By Ordeal.You're just posting what you believe to be true on the Internet, not what you've _actually_ experienced in this regard.



Okay, since you talk to God all the time, ask him the names of the doctors, technicians and scientists and the skills he gave them and get back to us. Then ask him why it took centuries (or six, if you're going to invoke the 'Young Earth' clause).

Failing that, ask yourself why such skills would even be needed in yours and your God's "Pefect World". It would arguably be much better for everyone involved if this alleged Creator would have REALLY been able to make things as perfectly as you postulate.

-Kerry O.

A lot of people don't survive these episodes. I suppose that's God Will, too. Heads, God wins. Tails, humans lose and die or become the walking wounded (after of course, they do enough physical therapy to be ABLE to walk again (which I guess God get's credit for, too)).

Besides, you're missing the whole point- it was a identifiable IMPERFECTION that caused all this, not whether I survived it where others haven't. See, for someone who hadn't gone through 8 days of pure hell in a neurological ICU (and that was only last time) in constant pain even though I was on enough killer intravenous narcotics to virtually have shut my body down, this is just a thought experiment that keeps you them in their comfort zone vis-a-vis religious belief. The question you obviously CAN'T ask yourself is "Why would God do this?"

You can't because, never having gone through it, it holds no 'shadow' for you-- you have no referents, only your unshakeable faith that was never put to the test by Trial By Ordeal.You're just posting what you believe to be true on the Internet, not what you've _actually_ experienced in this regard.

A lot of people don't survive these episodes. I suppose that's God Will, too. Heads, God wins. Tails, humans lose and die or become the walking wounded (after of course, they do enough physical therapy to be ABLE to walk again (which I guess God get's credit for, too))

Well, like I say, your religion teaches you to judge others relentlessly with no possible exceptions. It's a truly nasty religion. It's should be outlawed as hate speech, IMHO.

No a hate speech would be something with some form of hatred in it. There is no hatred in the teachings of the bible. There is love, joy, and greatness. And again, we or anyone else judges no one. I would treat you no differently then the guy down the street, or anyone else for that matter. See that would be a judgement, you think this person to be bad so you don't associate with them and or if you do you treat them differently then the other's. I judge no one, again I would treat you no differently then a preacher, a farmer, a cashier, or any other type of person. WE ARE ALL THE SAME IN THE SAME BOAT WE CALL LIFE.

I'm not the slightest bit concerned with whether or not you think you personally judge anyone. I'm talking about what a specific religious doctrine teaches.

As far as I'm concerned you can view Jesus as a means of propagating religious bigotry in the name of Christianity, or you can recognize that Jesus has nothing at all to do with any religion.

That choice is yours.

If you truly believe in God, then have a little FAITH in God.

That's all I can tell you.