There are many who claim Jesus,
but not as Christ, Savior, and Lord.
How so???

Hi! I don't know the answer to that question, because Jesus is My Lord and My God.

Amen!!! Jesus is lord!! Jesus is love!!

I guess I don't understand. What are they claiming him as? There are many who believe in God and old bible but don't believe Jesus is the son of God and so don't believe in the New Testament. This is a big problem. I believe this is like the main commandment. You might break the ten and get forgivness but if you don't believe in Jesus as the son of God then you might as well start believing in evolution because you won't see the pearly gates. I was laughing as I typed that and then realized how serious it really is.

Yes there are many that claim Jesus was just a prophet. They claim him to be Buddhist even. That comes from how people like to read the bible. They pick parts out here and there not taking the bible as a whole or they just think the writers put it in but it never happened. For instance with the Buddhist thing, they say that it never happened when Jesus was crucified and our father said to them "Matthew 3:17 - 17And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

Claim him as what? I don't understand the question. Perhaps you could clarify.

What, like Muslims who believe he was a prophet?

Or are you talking about those who believe he showed another way to eternal life and was basically a buddhist?


Or those that realize he denounced established religion and his followers completely dropped the ball?


Just exactly who are you referring too?

He's referring to Jesus, the only begotten child of God.

The statement was "there are many who claim Jesus". We are wondering who "the many" are.

The question I would ask, is why do the people who claim Jesus as the Christ, lord, and savior, use him as an excuse to judge others?

Jesus himself said that he would not judge those who do not believe him.


John.12:47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.


So if Jesus himself will not judge others for not believing his words then why should any mortal human be so arrogant as to do this?

Such people are certainly on their own when they do this and clearly have no support from Jesus according to the gospel of John.

Christians are often the worst offenders of the teachings of Jesus. Even if they go by the gospels verbatim they are being hypocritical when they claim him as their lord and savior since they clearly are not following his lead when they judge against those who do not believe as they do.

You just did exactly what you accuse Christtians of doing.
To quote your own words...
..why should any mortal human be so arrogant as to do this?

Hypocrisy goes both ways...



A better question is why do those who don't claim Jesus as the Christ, lord, and savior, use him as an excuse to judge others?

The answer preceded your quote I believe...


John 12:42-43 (King James Version)

42 Nevertheless among the chief rulers also many believed on him; but because of the Pharisees they did not confess him, lest they should be put out of the synagogue:

43 For they loved the praise of men more than the praise of God.

But they don't judge others in terms of judging their relationship with a God.

To observe that someone is exhibiting arrogance (i.e. self-centered importance) it not a moral judgment it's just an observation of behavior. If someone else feels that it's immoral to be arrogant then that's their moral judgment, not anyone else's.

When you speak of judgment in a religious sense it must be connected with a moral or spiritual judgment. Otherwise it's not a moral or spiritual judgment.

Get it?

You jump to all sorts of conclusions on your own and then accuse other people based on your perceptions. But other people aren't thinking the way that you think, so your accusations don't truly apply at all. They are totally bogus accusations.



This is just yet another example of why the Bible is necessarily written by men.

How can anyone "confess" that Jesus is God if they do not know this to be a fact?

The bottom line is that they can't.

If I don't know that Jesus is God and I 'confess' that he is God, then I can only be lying about something that I can't possibly know to be true.

The very fact that the authors of the New Testament put such a thing into their writings is only further proof to me that these writings clearly did not come from any divine source. These are the writings of men who are trying to force the tongues of other men to 'confess' things which they cannot possibly know to be true.

How can anyone "confess" that Jesus is God if they don't first already KNOW this to be true? That's just utterly absurd.

Are these authors trying to suggest that the Pharisees actually KNEW that Jesus was God and denied him anyway? There's no way that I'm going to buy into that one.

This is why I say that these stories make no sense. They are nonsense, IMHO.

That's just an honest assessment. I "confess" that they appear to be utter nonsense to me.

Now that, my friend, is a TRUE confession!

Peter Chao says "Xmas is Jesus' halloween. He dresses up like a big fat guy in red with a beard"
LOL

That would be your opinion, and it isn't part of the topic, so keep it that way.

No they can't if they do not know it for fact. But we do know it for a fact. What is a fact? It's nothing more then accepted evidence.

No Jesus didn't come to the world to judge. He came to teach us of the new covenant. That does NOT mean he WON'T judge us, that was just not his intended actions while he was on earth.

And no we are not to judge others for not believing, we are not to judge anyone for anything along those lines. For if we were to judge others according to that, we would be hypocrites for we as well do sinful actions time to time and is why Jesus is given the right to judge for he is pure, sinless, without blemish and can give a righteous judgement.

Your question isn't that well phrased, but if I understand, then:

I think that the story of Jesus have a lot of wisdom; I think the character that Jesus is portrayed as, is amazing. Here is a person who is humble, open to all kinds of people, strong, having faith and conviction, simple, full of humor and love, and yet keenly intelligent, a master of men and their ways, and terrifying in certain situations, while at the same time being utterly human in his fears, doubts and despairs.

I have learned a lot, and to me the story of Jesus stands as a shining example of what I dream to be.

But I don't think there is any savior except the one looking into your eyes every morning when you look at the mirror.
I think both understanding and actions play an important part in leading your life, but words -J-e-s-u-s, G-o-d, A-l-l-a-h, C-h-r-i-s-t, S-a-v-i-o-r, P-r-o-p-h-e-t, L-o-r-d etc etc are just words. It is meaning behind them, the intent with which they are used, and how people interpret them, that gives them significance, nothing more.

I can only say I am believer and nothing more because every attempt to define It would be false by definition, for a definition sets in stone, yet the Power that moves and powers all life from beyond and within is everything we can ever imaginge and more. How do you define the undefinable?

Therefore I do not claim Jesus - not in any way do I claim him.

Well, in that case, then for a lot of children Santa Claus is a fact. They were told before they went to bed at night that Santa Claus would bring them gifts and eat the cookies they put out for him. Sure enough, in the morning there are gifts under the tree and the cookies are gone. What more evidence do you need?

You would never accuse your parents of LYING to you about Santa Claus.

And that's basically all you're doing with the authors of the New Testament. Refusing to believe that they might be lying.

However, from my point of view then necessarily have to be lying because I personally don't believe that an all-wise supreme being would have made the claims that they make.

So for me the "fact" is that the New Testament can't be the word of God, because, for me, that's where the evidence is pointing.

So the bottom line goes right back to personal belief and faith once again.

Christianity, like all other religions and spiritual beliefs, is entirely based on "faith".

Christians truly need to start being a bit more honest about this. Not only with other people, but with themselves as well.

For example, I'm not suggesting that anyone should 'not' have faith in a biblical story. That's their business.

But if they are going to try to push their faith onto me, then they have crossed a very personal line and they are just asking for trouble at that point.

Since the book of John is being used as a gauge.

Jesus says in the Book of John:

"He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day." Joh_12:48,

Several Religions claim Jesus as a teacher of good morals, and some
believe Him to be "one" of the great masters.


The Book of John emphasizes more important truths than you care to look at.

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God...And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth" (John 1:1,14).

"The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, 'Behold! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!'" (John 1:29).

"The thief does not come except to steal, and to kill, and to destroy. I have come that they may have life, and that they may have it more abundantly" (John 10:10).

"And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand" (John 10:28).

"Jesus said to her, 'I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?'"(John 11:25-26).

"By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another" (John 13:35).

"Jesus said to him, 'I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me'" (John 14:6).

"Jesus said to him, 'Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, "Show us the Father"?'" (John 14:9).

"Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth" (John 17:17).

"So when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, 'It is finished!' And bowing His head, He gave up His spirit" (John 19:30).

"Jesus said to him, 'Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed'" (John 20:29).

Then your stance is purely opinionated, nothing factual about what you "personally" believe. My stance is more on a factual stance. Weather you wish to believe Jesus was divine, the only begotten child of God is irrelevant, for you're CHOOSING to believe that.