Oh, and vagina worked for me. I dated a non-smoker for a while. I had a choice at the time, quit smoking or no get vagina. Vagina trumps cigarettes everytime.

The trouble w/ statistics is that they can be made to show nearly anything. And they very rarely show the whole story. For instance, I bet nearly all those bad people wore shoes too. So, should we start banning shoes now?
I would be willing to bet that most people who are, as you say, dope heads, don't do really bad things. Even in Oklahoma.

it always seems futile to me to get into the debate about which 'sins' are better or worse,,,,truthfully what matters is that no 'sin' is good and all have some which is why we cant really try to judge the sins of others in terms of whether those people are heaven bound or bound elsewhere. None of us are truly DESERVING of a heaven, and those who reach it will be those who understand that enough to appreciate their blessings and/or salvation.

What exactly have you got against teens getting f'ed up anyway? I did most of my drinking as a teen. Got it out of the way early in life. One is supposed to do stupid shi-et when one is a kid. I didn't go driving, I never got anyone pregnant, as far as I know, I was the only one who ever got "hurt" by my drinking. So what's the big deal?
I'm in my 40's now and I haven't been falling down drunk in a decade or 2, more or less. I'm thinking if kids learn all about alcohol early in life, they'll get over it, so to speak, by the time they reach adulthood.
Here's a real world solution. Let 'em drink. But make the penalty for endangering others' life while intoxicated DEATH.

This is indeed true.

That's the thing tho~, you see the younger a person starts using this drug the more likely they will never be able to stop using it. A 15 year old who starts drinking is 5 times more likely to become addicted, may drop out of school and just be another junkie.

And as far as learning about alcohol...lol...most schools in the US do not teach that alcohol is yet another addictive drug...so teens (for that matter at age 8) "learn" about alcohol through ADs and peer pressures. It's presented to them as the socially acceptable drink.

There are two ways of becoming addicted, one is a pre-disposition to alcoholism from their genetics, the other is by acquiring it. And it's really more of a mental defect/brain damage type of condition
than a disease...it's a pretty heavy duty drug man. Would you object to a kid doing heroin at least...geez.

Alcohol is a NARCOTIC type of drug.

You need to attend a few open AA meetings and just listen. Meanwhile thumpers ignore their allowing alcohol to be pushed onto children? How moral IS that? When is Big God going to bitchslap Big Alcohol? Hummmm.

Their book says it's pretty low....so what's the matter with Christians and teen drinking epidemic issue? MIA? WTF? More selective reading in the bible again folks?

Evidence of the correlation between alcohol and Christians???

MIA? WTF? Why no proof? Is it because those stats represent atheists?
Yeah, that's what I'll do, I'll claim all of those statistics represent bible-thumpin Atheist dope-heads! Coming from a bible-thumpin Atheist, it must be true.


I still see only one thumper here and he's on the balot now...

No idea what your talking about I already stated I dont drink... I also dont use drugs, speak publicly at institutions, treatment centers, and rehabs, and other places to help others with their alcahol/drug problems, and sponsor individuals on my own watch who need help.

Your barking up the wrong tree my friend.. I havent drank any alcahol in over 5 years.. i dont know.. can you say the same?

Well I guess I was lucky I discovered alcohol at age 16. I drank like a fish, as they say, between 17 and 21. By the time I was 22, I was pretty much done w/ being drunk. I think the most I've had at any one time since then was 3 drinks per hour for 2 hours in a row. Twice. A single bottle of whiskey now lasts me about a year.
However, if one looked at how much I drank between 19-21, one would think *I* was addicted. And yet, I just gave it up, being falling down drunk. You know why? I'll tell you. I had better things to do. I had adult responsibilities. I'm thinking if kids don't get that, screw 'em. I hate how our society coddles dumbasses.

Well, I just think they should have a chance and a choice to grow up drug free...unfortunately peer pressures and social acceptances of this drug, and advertising using pets...all are ruining them in huge numbers...so much for the "moral majority" doing something about it eh?

Hmmmm, better but still no facts to back up your bigoted claims...


Let's see, a quick search of Yahoo came up with this:

"atheist alcohol counseling" brought 572,004 results.

"christian alcohol counseling" yielded 6,420,038 results.

"jewish alcohol counseling" produced 2,350,015 results.

"muslim alcohol counseling" gathered 1,790,013 results.

"buddhist alcohol counseling" had 738,002 results.




So what exactly are you trying to accomplish here? Trying to bring to light how little Atheists care???

LOL, yeah they're most all rehab businesses (probably expensive)...take a look, they even say "alcohol OR drugs"...most of them have no clue about PREVENTION. Alcohol IS a GD drug already...lol.

Even the medical communitiy is divided on alcoholism as being a "disease". They now think it's an acquired neroulogical disorder. Rehab is big business...gee, you'd expect that since we graduate so many addicts (customers) in this country.

~~~

In Oklahoma they cut the budget for alcohol abuse treatment and recovery...much less is available for prevention. We had an Oklahoma "Gov's 2006 Task Force against Teen Drinking" assigned...oh man...this is funny. I cornered the governeor at a fund raiser last year. I asked him about his plan and told him who I was...his face went long as I dressed him down about it..politely as possible. I like Brad Henry but when it comes to teen drinking he had the same lame BS non-plan in print that most politicians do.

After I spoke with him, about a week later there was a story in the Oklahoman that his "task force" busted 13 out of 20 stores (note the ratio) in sales of alcohol to minors. Other than THAT little bust the only thing he endorsed was an already in-place plan for OKC social hosting laws. So far I think one woman was arrested.

ZIP NANA, nothing is being done. The phucking Alcohol Industry is just another poison dealer like Big Pharma and Big Oil... and just as greedy, they own these politicians...hell while I am at it, the guy who ran against Inhofe here in '08 I met with a few times....he said he agreed with me but he went on to try to pass high-point beer and wine in grocery stores....WHO does Sen. Andrew Rice work for anyway? He's a recovering alcoholic himself so what part of "alcohol IS an addictive drug" does he not get? Really?

Then there's Todd Lamb who just won the nomination to run for Lt. Governor. He's the author of many restrictive woman's reproductive rights bills...yes, anti-choice bills. Three so far that Gov Henry vetoed but that the (R) led state legislature overrode. Now they are in the courts without a Constitutional chance of being inacted. A waste of time. Completely.

I also met with Lamb, had him listening. I even wrote the rough draft of legislation to curb the AI's advertising and force them to label their product for what it is...a drug. He seemed interested but dropped off after a week....you see, he does not care to help prevent unwanted (teen) pregnancies...no he just want's to use his religious ways to outlaw abortion. BTW about half of all unwanted teen pregnancies happened when at least one of the participants was high on this drug....alcohol...again..the drug...alcohol.

We could do a lot better...that's all I am saying...lol...yeah, saying it in as many ways that I can.

I do NOT understand why adults object to being responsible and helping demand that this drug product be regulated as any OTHER drug product already is...Chit, look at your mouthwash.."DRUG FACTS" Label..Aspirin, even your TOOTHEPASTE has a DFL.

~~~

Either people get it or not. Not sure why they object...even to the extent of ignoring their own moral responsibilities...

So..what...are you saying that peers are holding down people and forcing them to drink? I'm thinking pretty much everyone has a chance and a choice. If someone can't figure out that there's a time to party and a time to be responsible, at least by adulthood, screw 'em. Get 'em spade or neutered so they don't pass on those defective genes and then let 'em at it, so to speak.
Sorry, morons pissith me off mightily. I want them out of my species.
And I'm so damn tired of my rights being truncated and my taxes going up with the excuse being "FOR THE CHILDREN".

Damn soapboxes...

The social hosting law is stupid beyond belief. Are you really naive enough to think it'll stop kids from drinking? The only thing it'll accomplish is remove a safe place for kids to party. So, instead of being in a nice safe house, they'll just drive around. Yeah, that's so much better. Or hey, maybe they'll just find some old railroad tracks out in the boonies. Getting drunk and passing out on railroad tracks is just so much safer than a house.
It's a fact. Kids like to get f'ed up. The more you clamp down on it, the worse the consequences will be. Always. If you managed to get rid of all alcohol everywhere, they'd smoke more pot. Get rid of that, they'll do pills. Get rid of that, they'll huff gas, glue, and paint fumes.

About selling high point beer and wine in the grocery stores. First off, the fundies were against it. In fact, I'd say the fundies were resposible for killing it, more than anything else. Big alcohol was all for it. So I'm thinking they haven't bought all the politicians.
Second, once again, my rights or abilties are truncated "FOR THE CHILDREN". Grocery stores should be allowed to sell whatever the hey they want to. And I should be allowed to buy a wine for the dinner I'm buying without having to go to another store.

Just because you have a problem with alcohol, doesn't mean everyone else does too. And do you really think a label will do anything at all? Seriously. Stupid people don't read labels. Duh. Seen a pack of cigs lately? Do you think anyone who smokes gives a damn about the labels?

Also, the sex drive is quite high, especially in teen males. Look it up. Alcohol may play a small part in some teen pregnancies, however, I'm pretty sure kids would still be having sex w/o it. If you wanna fix the teen pregnancy problem, try education. As in, this is a birthcontrol pill. This is a condom. This is how they're used.

I'll tell you why adults object to more regulations. THERE ARE ALREADY TOO MANY REGULATIONS GOVERNING OUR LIVES.

This statistics won't work. So there may be more christians as a whole then the other beliefs. Find me some ratio's and then we'll talk. Ratios as in like 1 out of 5 muslims have the problem, 3 out of 7 buddhist, 3 out of 7 christians, and so on. That's like saying if there was 5,000 white people and 2,000 indians, and 2,000 whites drank but only 1,000 indians did the indians would obviousely drink less. Wrong, half of the idians would then drink. And so on. See how your statisics don't hold any tangible evidence of anything?

I don't have a problem with alcohol, I have a problem with adults dealing this drug to children and an out-of-control industry that markets to children. I also have a problem with politicians who take hush money from drug dealers...

I never claimed that we can "stop kids from drinking" but we can do more to reduce it. Reducing it's use in kids WILL reduce almost all our social ills.

Why do you have a problem with product safety and disclosure. Doesn't that fit as part of educating? Why don't schools teach about alcohol as they would crack? What's the difference in the long run? Nothing.


~~~

It's all just societal denial of the problem...another disease of our culture...especially when you cannot even get the thumper patrol on it.

They remain narrow minded and ignorant. Like I expected more...lol.

~~~

"MIA? WTF? Why no proof? Is it because those stats represent atheists?
Yeah, that's what I'll do, I'll claim all of those statistics represent bible-thumpin Atheist dope-heads! Coming from a bible-thumpin Atheist, it must be true. "

The "stats" are from an AA org..a relgious based system for recovery, the sad part is they could not agree to appear with me at a THM because they're not supposed to engage in controversy.

No, the sad part is you continue to use derogatory terms and fail (still) to provide a connection between those stats, your bigoted views and Christians.

From Wikipedia:
"Bible thumper is a pejorative term used to describe Christians in general, especially someone perceived as aggressively pushing their Christian beliefs upon those who do not share them. Its target domain is broad and can often extend to anyone engaged in a public show of religion, fundamentalist or not. It is commonly heard in most Western countries; the particular term Bible basher, along with Jesus freak is used in Australian slang to pertain to a person or group who knock on doors to convert non-Christians. It is also often used to refer to social conservatives in the Bible belt of the Southern United States. The term alludes to a preacher thumping his hand hard down on the Bible to emphasize a point during a sermon."

Futher clarification for someone less inteligent than a normal Christian. U???:

pe·jo·ra·tive (pi jôr′ə tiv, -jär′-; occas. pē′jə rāt′iv, pej′ə-)

adjective

1. declining; making or becoming worse: applied to words whose basic meaning has changed for the worse (Ex.: knave, cretin)
2. disparaging or derogatory


Yeah, I understand why no one in government or religious orginizations want to listen to you. You blame it on religion without an once of proof, and it surprises you that your cries go unheard???

"a rose is a rose..."

Off topic! This thread is about religious hypocrites, about those who pick and choose from their religious writs to justify their ignorance, their fears of the unknown, or in this case maybe to defend their reasons for remaining a drinker of this drug that god forbids. I've clearly stated in their OWN words from their little bible book that clearly forbids the use of alcohol and not one half-arsed argument against the thread's subject and intent has been presented… lol...pathetic but overall interesting when looking at the sociological and psychological aspects.

Christians don’t care? Really? Why don’t Christians care about their heading to hell for drinking this evil liquid? I wonder if they think there’s Crown Royal in heaven? Ya’s gotta quit sooner or later…LOL

The intent? I really wish the Christians would DO something about their kids drug (alcohol too!) use. Not happening? Why?

What's to lose? The $20 BILLION the A.I. make off of selling to kids?...and so what's supposed to PAY for the $60 BILLION it costs taxpayers from the results of teen drinking? (per year)

I need a logical person to post here sometime...don't rational people use dating sites?...er, well, maybe not.

Of course, you are included in your own bigoted views. The self-hating, bible-thumpin Atheist that you are.

The best part is that us rational, logical people here don't share your distorted views....

holy crap. That's pretty smart, Cowboy. Way to go.