I asked the OP ... although that's a charming tale ...

right, banks are in the business of lending, but they only do it for profit,, pretty cool that there are humans who do it for free,,,

Yes, in this case... a relative. Charity starts at home...agreed...

In a barter society without currency, trade or trade of services would be the ONLY way to get ANYTHING or ANYTHING done. No one would have the leisure to sit around and beg.

Why do we accept this in our society? ....my opinion

because we dont get electric and water and food through bartering, we require money , and unfortunately , to acquire money your 'work' has to be valued enough to be paid for it

and if you have children, you cant take them with you as in a barter society , which brings in extra expense of child care, and if you want to GET to that job which is most likely not merely in walking distance,, you have to pay for gas or cab or a bus ticket


sure, IF we were a barter society,, begging wouldnt be needed, but since money is power in our current society,, sometimes people have to do what they have to do to get it,,,

MS .. I made it clear in my post I DO give .. more than is expected. No matter what I make I always give to others.

And I worked in my home for years raising my children, and homeschooling them (that would be a teacher's salary x's 3 at the time) ..

So I know what it is to say "oh, do you work outside the home" because they did at the time, and I didn't. I earned just as much or more.

Then I did get a corporate job and still ran said children everywhere and attended every school function., so I know both sides of the story.

But when a guy is out there panhandling when the wife IS home with the kids .. ya .. that's not gonna fly with this chica. Both parents do not have to be home to make a home happy

And no one is 'handing' out jobs, they are merely hiring. A guy can usually land a lot of physical labor jobs that a woman may not be able to handle (I see them constantly on Craigslist while searching for my SIL's construction co) .. so I know they exist.

I know my son can go door to door and get a mowing/snow shoveling job. I know there are opportunities to break your back for a dollar. They do exist and people get hired every day.


I'm just saying a cardboard sign is not the way to provide for your family. Heck if he really can't work, that IS what welfare services are for. If he's not on them, they may know something we don't?

Just sayin ..

I understand. I do think it is probably easier for an adult with no other responsibilities to invest time in working whatever job they can get,, however, I dont know the ops circumstances.

I do know that there is currently something like ONE job opening for every six people looking, so even while people are TRYING to help themself and get work they still arent finding any and their bills still need paid and their children need to be clothed and fed.

Even while waiting to be approved for social services, children need to eat TODAY, even while pounding the pavement, or sending out resumes or WAITING for that first check, children need to eat TODAY.


life is a day to day thing that cant be put on hold out of pride of WAITING for 'legitimate'(paid work),,,,

I feel blessed to have the home referred to in 'charity starts at home', I have a family support system that would NEVER allow my children to go without,,,,but there are some people who have no family but the human family and I find it no worse for them to ask for my help than it would be to ask for help from that 'home' so many of us can take for granted,,,,

My business ethics have been pushed recently so I would say no. But if it works, it works, more power to you...I'm well aware of how difficult this online business thing is. Just my personal decision to stay away from things like this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgxzD5UeW4A

I agree with the family .. we are the same way. Just like the military has the saying "no one gets left behind" that's the way we are with our family =)

I do know the job market's a b*tch. I've been searching, as I said, for 20 mos. Always 50 other resumes that compete with mine. But I have a positive outlook, and trust God for the future, so I am not panicked .. well, not yet anyway

Heck .. now that I think about it, maybe Totage's idea is good after all. HAHA

LOL,,,desperate times for alot of of folks,,,makes me think about what we value here,,,,its off topic but why is it ok for us to have all this 'casual sex' for free but if someone is asking for money they are labeled a criminal? shrugs

my dad told me , we are worth(financially) whatver someone else is willing to pay us,,,,,,,,

OldSage, (or anyone else who considers him- or herself to be a normal American with a healthy work ethic and with a considerably normal thinking person in terms of politics and economics) I live on disability pension. The government gives me money for nothing in return, to keep me alive. I depend on no other person or institution for my living allowances. I live a financially responsible but frugal life. I have no debts, and even have a little nest-egg, under $5000, which the disability people allow me to have.

So... I don't beg, but live on handouts, not on my own worth. How do you look at that? It's not an invitation to fight; it's not a c'mon; I am genuinely interested in the viewpoint of those who look down on begging.

Because I look down on begging, too. Not because of a moral stand or of a principle of viewpoint, but because beggars are repulsive people, at most times.

Question two: I had to apply for this disability income some 15 years ago. Do you consider that begging? I was not asking for a job, but I was begging, literally, because I formally requested money for nothing for a lifetime, a steady and secure income, which is not a lot of money, but then again, I have nothing to do to get it, other than keeping to the law of the land.

So... again, I am not picking fights, I am not going to try to change your view or opinion, I am genuinely curious how you would evaluate a person like me.

I have to add, I have a true disability, not a fake one, and I tried for a good 20-25 years to get jobs and work at them. I got fired from each and every one of them, usually within three months or less; I lasted years only with three jobs. I don't look disabled, but I am truly impossible to get along with. I am hard on others, and working is hard on me. I can't do it, and some learned and professional people decided that it's no use trying any longer, the government was asked to keep me alive and in relative wealth and health.

So... I am curious about your opinion, or about the opinion of those on this site who are similar to you in their views, and it's not for trying to become difficult again, about this, but to glean some insight how my kind is evaluated by the normal American person who has a healthy work ethic and an average moral philosophy of expectations of his countrimen.

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Some variations:

No, I don't steal from the rich, but I don't give to the poor.

No, I steal from the rich, but I do give to the poor.

No, I steal from the rich, but I don't give to the poor.

Some other variations:

Self-help organizations

Senate lobby groups

Giving the Roman Catholic Church a charitable organization status

Televangelism

Scientific research

Coca Cola

Military Industrial Pharmaceutical Wedding Dress Industry

Clockwatchers Anonymous

"Just say No"

"I do"

"Go ahead, make my day"

"Where's the beef???"

"Cheezy, the foul-minded dwarf"

Sex

Drigs

Rock'n'Roll

Jimi Hendrix Experience

Debbie Does the Vacationing Seniors and all Cruise Ship Captains

Big Brother

Big Brothers

Small Brothers

Really Small Brothers

Extremely tiny, tincy-weency brothers

"I am a mean and jealous God"

--------

In the end, humans are a trading species, and some come out on top, some lose everything, and some stay more-or-less the same. Since the industrial revolution in England, wealth and girth of individuals increased worldwide, there is an absolute and a relative increase in wealth per individual, and per global total. This means that giving money freely away has become a fad, and supporting hordes of non-supporting members of societies became very reasonably possible. In fact, if you work or you don't, you have an equal chance at happiness, like it is said in the preamble to the US constitution.

Please don't make the mistake by deciding that only productive members of society should survive. In the United States of America only 5.77 percent of all employed men and women are involved in production, so it is highly likely that you would need to leave the country, with at least 240 million other people. If you think it's still a good idea, then I further argue that the economy of the USA, as it's set up presently, could not survive with productive members only in it, because ten million would produce way more than their earning power could sustain. In other words, the USA and the world would collapse economically if all the no-good free-loading layabouts like bankers, lawyers and insurance employees suddenly ceased to exist. In other words, money circulated is the one thing that sustains our economies, and the more people circulating the money, the stronger the economy.

I had a summer job once when I was in college, in which my job description required me to keep my entire head immersed in a bucket of cow pies for eight hours a day, with two fifteen minute breaks and a lunch hour. Some days we needed to work overtime. Technically you could say "no" to that, but then you got fired on the spot, and had to spend the rest of the summer unemployed, on the beach, drinking beer and screwing different girls every night.

Beg to differ with the poster quoted, but that job learnded me that begging is sometimes preferrable to some jobs.

Take the job I had in kindergarten. We were paid five cents a day for standing in a room, facing a blank wall from 2 inches away from it, the whole day that we were in daycare. Washroom breaks cost $23 per minute. This is in 1958 dollars. This was a good training for all toilet-trainingers everywhere.

I needed to think about it before replying.

I'm not a "Normal American" with healthy work ethics... But I am a "half normal Canadian" who busted his arse for 25 years so he and his employees could maintain a certain quality of life for their families.

Please take this post with a grain of salt... I mean no disrespect


YOUR Facts:
-disability pension(to keep you alive)
-$5000 saved in a mattress
-Impossible to get along with, Hard on others, work is hard on you
Just can't do it


My Reality as a small business owner
-No safety net
-Assets are limited to retail store and home equity
-Customers are increasingly difficult and rude
-Employees want better wages to deal with it
-Big Box stores increasing competition and lower margins (import 3rd world countries child labor goods)


I think you're right... who needs it... I give up!
Now that we're both here.... who's watching the QUIK-E-MART?

You said, "There is an absolute and relative increase in wealth per individual... globally. So? Better for all of us No?

I don't subscribe to your selfserving argument that the nation needs unproductive members in society. HORSEHOCKEY! Trust me we can do without them.

I disagree strongly on the 6% "production population" theory

The BIGWHEEL needs are:

-"Research Population"
-"Raw Material Population" Those who risk life & limb to extract minerals and fossil fuels etc.
-"production Population"
-"Transportation & Distribution Population"
-"Sales Population"
-"Administration Population"
-"Maintenance Population"

They all deserve equal importance

So what you are saying is... You don't fit into any of these potential categories? Interresting

What if we all rowed in the same direction with equal effort... Perhaps "WE" could "ALL" live happier lives with full bellies?

Your penmanship is superb... In fact, I'd hire you to proof read all those secret war documents... or better yet... Write them!
Your imagination is borderline "crazy" which makes you a genius in some way. and still you do nothing????

You could train to drive long haul deliveries... there's a slew of careers to choose from.... Just do something GAWDDAMMIT!


Shame really....

Have a nice day