That is the point I was trying to make...no one is willing to listen to anyone. Is it just possible that some of what everyone is saying is truth, is valid, is relevant? Is it just possible that if we try to get past the first sentence, or the one differing opinion (no matter how major it may be) that we might find some common ground? Something? If we could just stop belittling each other's opinions with adjectives like 'stupid', and using the terms 'liberal' and 'conservative' as if they were slurs, couldn't the we come up with better ways of dealing with the problems we face? Oh, geez...I am so out of step with these times...I still look around me and say, "people are just people...same as me..." - *sigh* - "Those were the days, my friend..."

Ifn' the fller is legal, great, welcome, dude.

It gets very tiring hearing Illegals demanding rights.

Americans visiting foreign countries have no rights.

I say, give the Illegal 10 days to report for deportation and be given a free ride back. After that, prison with hard labor until they repay citizens and the Legal Immigrants.

well, although it would involve a slight amnesty period,, I can agree with that,,,

I'm not listening to anyone that says Arizona is like Nazi Germany or some other fascist state. You want to talk about it then make a case based on facts. I'll be more than happy to debate the issue on it's merits, but the fascist stuff is a non starter.. PERIOD

ohhh the double standard ...you people can compare obama and the democrat party to the SS and Mein Feuer yet when someone on the opposite side points out the fascist right you throw a hissy fit.

you people.. you people..

Actually the OP was referring to Nicolae Ceauşescu and comparing his totalitarian COMMUNIST regime to Arizona.. So which is it fascist right or Commie left? Make up your mind.. Email daily kos or Huffington post and get their answer.. hurry hurry ...

you said it sister.....

everyone wants freedom of speech, we're all talking at the same time,
everyone wants to tell their neighbors how to live, no one wants to listen how they feel....

http://michellemalkin.com/2008/08/03/san-francisco-values-650000-for-illegal-alien-teen-felons/

As San Francisco’s juvenile justice system shielded young illegal immigrant felons from possible deportation, Mayor Gavin Newsom’s office gave grants totaling more than $650,000 to nonprofit agencies to provide the underage offenders with free services – everything from immigration attorneys to housing assistance to “arts and cultural affirmation activities,” city records show.

Newsom has said the city began its policy of not referring young immigrant offenders to federal authorities for deportation under previous mayors, and that he reversed the practice after he became aware of it this year. However, in 2006, the Mayor’s Office of Criminal Justice – a community outreach arm of Newsom’s office – created a grant program specifically designed to assist, rather than deport, “undocumented, unaccompanied and monolingual” immigrants who were in the custody of the city’s Juvenile Probation Department or on juvenile probation, according to city documents.

The city provided $467,000 to three nonprofit agencies under the grant program from mid-2006 and mid-2008, records show, and another $200,000 was approved for two of the agencies for this budget year.

Newsom’s office created the program, in part, to deal with an influx of Central American youths being housed on drug charges at San Francisco’s juvenile hall, according to those familiar with the grant. Crowding at juvenile hall had led to protests among youth advocate groups.
“A key goal of this project is to assist these individuals to successfully navigate the juvenile justice system and achieve stability within the community setting,” according to a 2006 invitation issued by Newsom’s office for agencies to bid for grant money.

The grant language said the youths “require extensive support” to overcome “multiple complex barriers” in the justice system.

Money for the effort came from the pot of discretionary funding that the mayor’s office receives each year as part of the city budget.

The goal of the grant program, according to the request for bids, was to further the city’s “proud tradition as a haven for immigrants.”

In addition to immigration attorneys, Newsom’s office envisioned the program helping young felons obtain housing, food, clothing, educational and vocational training, English-language instruction, medical care and mental health assessments.

The program would also provide “spiritual, cultural enrichment and recreation activities.”

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/05/12/hoop-dreams-shattered-arizona-safety-fears/


Parents in Illinois are outraged over a move by a local high school to scrap its girls basketball team's trip to Arizona over the Grand Canyon State’s new immigration law.

The Highland Park High School varsity basketball team has been selling cookies for months to raise money for a tournament in Arizona..

Now, after winning their first conference title in 26 years, the girls are being denied the opportunity to play in the tournament over safety concerns and because the trip “would not be aligned” with the school's “beliefs and values,” Assistant Superintendent Suzan Hebson told the Chicago Tribune.

Hebson said Arizona is off-limits, at least until it’s more clear how the state’s new law, which makes it a crime to be in the country illegally, will be enforced.

"We would want to ensure that all of our students had the opportunity to be included and be safe and be able to enjoy the experience," Hebson told the Tribune about the tournament. "We wouldn't necessarily be able to guarantee that."

Parents said there was no vote or consultation regarding the decision, which they called confusing, especially since they say no players on the team are illegal immigrants.

“I’m not sure whose values and what values and what beliefs they’re talking about, we were just going to Arizona to play basketball and our daughters were very disappointed to find out the trip had been canceled,” Michael Evans, a father of one of the players told Fox News.

Evans said if for some reason a player was worried about her safety, she could always opt to stay home from the December tournament without forcing the entire team to do the same.

“This tournament was voluntary, so students could decide not to go if they thought they were at some sort of risk of some sort of harm to themselves, but to penalize all the other girls because of some potential risk? I don’t understand it,” he said.

Evans said he also failed to understand why the school allowed so many other trips, but not this one.

“The school has sent children to China, they’ve sent children to South America, they’ve sent children to the Czech Republic, but somehow Arizona is more unsafe for them than those places,” he said.

“The beliefs and values of China are apparently aligned, since they approved that trip,” he added.

One player, who said she is against the Arizona law, told Fox News she didn’t see how the tournament was related.

“It’s ultimately the state’s decision, no matter what I think. Not playing basketball in Arizona is not going to change anything,” she told Fox News.

The district said in a statement Wednesday that is legally required to provide an education to all children within its borders regardless of immigration status and is responsible for their "safety, security and liberty" when they travel.

"The selection of a varsity basketball team for the 2010-2011 winter athletic season will take place in November, 2010. The team has yet to be selected," the statement read. "We cannot commit at this time to playing at a venue where some of our students’ safety or liberty might be placed at risk because of state immigration law."

SOOO much of all of this, the fractiousness between AMERICANS, the hostility to foreigners, and the fight over people's accents sprang up in response to the OVERALL ECONOMIC DECLINE in America. This decline did NOT start when the sub-prime scam fell apart, it's been going on since about 1970 or so.
People who have plenty are relaxed and open to suggestions and to variety. People in fear of losing what they have or worse, are like all fearful animals, hostile, unheeding, incurious, impatient, prejudiced.
The Arizona laws are an attempt by by their politicians to tap into the fear of the populace, in order to get more votes, and stay in charge. Whether they actually fix anything is unimportant to them.
Why do people who can't speak English well taking so many jobs where they really don't belong? Because the people PAYING them, want the cheapest labor they can find. Why do we have so many illegal aliens here? Because the employers want the CHEAPEST LABOR THEY CAN FIND.
SO where did the wealth go that the US had before? You used to be able to get a job that would put you squarely in the middle class, with just a high school education. College grads went into the next level. Now, a High School diploma gets you NOTHING, and a college degree gets you an entry position in a low-paying field with limited prospects.
What happened? Three things: the rest of the world's industrial powers recovered from WW2 and started competing head to head with us; container ships were invented, dragging the cost of importing things down so low that the concept of Dollar Stores became practical; and since the competing countries (China, India,South Korea, etc) have either lower cost of living by far, OR a much lower EXPECTATION of life quality than us, all the jobs went over there. One of two things will have to happen before things get much better: either the OTHER countries people have to demand a better quality of life, and drive up their own wages, thus making us competitive again, OR our own cost of living has to plummet...and that means the real estate market has to TOTALLY bottom out.
Until then, expect lots more blind hostility.

NPR ... National Parasitic Radio ... "If not us, who?; If not now, when?" ... what an obsequious, self-serving bunch. Their 'ideas' [sic] would never make it in the FREE MARKET, so they have to rely on PUBLIC FUNDING to keep their Liberal / Progressive / Collectivist 'message' coming into our house over the PUBLIC airwaves. What a failed business model. If they were in the FREE MARKET, they'd be following 'Air Amerika' into the dustbin of history. As for Mr. Codrescu, I had the dubious 'pleasure' of seeing his column appear in a free weekly 'newspaper' published under the name 'Gambit' for the 'see and be seen' crowd. His 'writings' were equally as self-serving and idea-free as anything aired on NPR - which, I suspect, is why he's on their staff. NPR is just one more failed business model being funded with PUBLIC DOLLARS because it could never compete in the marketplace of ideas.

I don't agree with everything you said, but I made the case on another thread that the only way to fix the housing mess is for prices to fall.. Atleast 30% and the banks have to stick to the 20% down policy.. No more zero down loans..

Cheap labor is just that.Unskilled cheap labor.The most successful companies do not spend money on cheap labor because how useful is a guy who can't speak english with a 9th grade education?A company is far better by paying more for a well educated and well skilled person that can help the company grow and succeed.A good example would be the building of the 8 mile long Great northern railroad tunnel in the 1920's.They needed thousands of people to dig that tunnel.Do you think they hired the cheapest illegal's or do you think that they paid good money for people who knew how how to drill and mine rock?They paid good money for men who they knew would make the most progress in one day.Why pay a hundred stupid men to swing hammers all day when you can pay one guy 10% of that wage to drill holes and blow the rock apart with more progress?

I have worked jobs where companies thought they could make a good profit by hiring cheap labor.The results were hardly impressive.Cheap labor brought lazy,late,undependable,unreliable,and unsatisfactory work that nearly always had to be re done by another team member.There is a reason places like Boeing,Microsoft,General motors and others don't employ cheap labor and pay very good wages.They want good results.That is why illegal's are nearly always doing some kind of brain dead work like landscaping or washing cars.American does not need illegal's or cheap labor.That is what teenagers are for.

You probably need to open a history book on America and compare our annual GDP every year with the rest of the world.We have been dominating the market for a very long time.I do not know why you think America is losing progress.The importing goods from China was never a bad thing as hundreds of thousands of business could buy these items cheaply from China and make a good profit.If it wasn't for China everything in America would likely cost 10 times what it does now.I am all for buying from America but I am not willing to pay 120 dollars for a jacket and 800 dollars for a DVD player.


I think it's time Mexico gets is act together and starts doing something to help it's own people.How hard can it be to build a Walmart,Kmart,and Starbucks?If the Mexicans are such hard workers why don't they start building highways,airports,and rail lines?Mexico has the worlds richest person now.

There is a silver lining with SB 1070 that I never thought of, it will keep liberals out of my state. If your not a criminal you have nothing to worry about, there is an overabundance of hate and fear mongering coming the pro-criminal crowd and the filthy media is all over it and helping spread it. If you don't live in southern Arizona and think SB 1070 is wrong, I suggest you mind your own business or come live down here for a few weeks then talk to me about it.

Its real easy for people who live in MA, CO, IL or OR to have an opinion about this. It would be like me telling you how to run your house, I don't live there so I don't know and you don't live here so you don't know.

A few states have boycotted Arizona.Sounds like a good start to me.Since the majority of the people who live there are illegals from Mexico maybe if nobody does business with them they will all go back to Mexico.People also seem to forget a lot of the legal immigrants want the borders secured.Jobs are hard to find and even harder for a non speaking immigrant.You really think he wants thousands of more illegal's coming across the border taking his job?No way.

Ya'll got it!!