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Topic: Arizona Education Loses The Accent Of America
LouLou2's photo
Thu 05/13/10 02:45 PM
Something to think about for those who wish to do so...

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=126480169

I would suggest listening to the commentary, rather than simply reading it.

msharmony's photo
Thu 05/13/10 02:51 PM
Edited by msharmony on Thu 05/13/10 02:53 PM
my son has 'borrowed' my speakers again,,but I certainly empathize and relate with the author of the piece





in regards to communication, its purpose is to convey ideas so there does need to be the ability for others to 'understand' the person speaking. I wouldnt expect to go to another country and be put in positions of customer service or direct personal relations where it was important for people to understand me either. It is a terrible thing to be paying for a college course, and then get into the class and not be able to understand a word the professor says even though the words are 'english'.
I think people have a grasp of whether others understand them and have the ability to try harder to be understood...if they choose to, and if they cant than they can choose fields in which such an 'understanding' isnt quite so vital.

InvictusV's photo
Thu 05/13/10 02:58 PM

my son has 'borrowed' my speakers again,,but I certainly empathize and relate with the author of the piece





in regards to communication, its purpose is to convey ideas so there does need to be the ability for others to 'understand' the person speaking. I wouldnt expect to go to another country and be put in positions of customer service or direct personal relations where it was important for people to understand me either. It is a terrible thing to be paying for a college course, and then get into the class and not be able to understand a word the professor says even though the words are 'english'.
I think people have a grasp of whether others understand them and have the ability to try harder to be understood...if they choose to, and if they cant than they can choose fields in which such an 'understanding' isnt quite so vital.


I read the first sentence and that was enough..

msharmony's photo
Thu 05/13/10 03:01 PM
first sentence of what? the article?

InvictusV's photo
Thu 05/13/10 03:04 PM
yes the article

no photo
Thu 05/13/10 03:05 PM
Arizona's new immigration law is outrageous to anyone who's had the bad luck of living in a country where fear of the police was a constant source of suppressed rage. A huge weight lifted off my psyche when I came to the U.S. from Communist Romania and was told that the police couldn't stop me just because I still wore my commie trench coat and spoke with an accent.

That was in 1966, and now in Arizona in 2010, the police can target both my trench coat and my accent. The Arizona Department of Education has told schools that teachers with "heavy" or "ungrammatical" accents are no longer allowed to teach English to kids just learning to speak the language.

Oh boy! Did I land back behind the Iron Curtain half a century ago? My last 40 years of teaching would have never happened if the Arizona law had been the law of the land in 1966. Forty years of accented instruction gone by the wayside! Gone also the 40 years when American education, lower and higher, finally recognized the diversity of America.

LouLou2's photo
Thu 05/13/10 03:06 PM
Mr. Codrescu speaks English as fluently as is his written English...probably far more proper than most of us. He does speak, however, with a delightful accent that may have at one time seemed attractive to many women in the U.S.

Accents were once considered exotic or attractive. Times change I suppose. Now it seems they are considered a threat. Very sad...I love recalling my great-uncle's voice with his English accent. He'd lived as a U.S. citizen for 3/4 of his life, but still had that accent when he passed.

no photo
Thu 05/13/10 03:07 PM
I can sympathize with this point of view. Even our current law ("probable cause"!) is abused by police officers on a regular basis. I agree we have a problem with our 'illegal immigrant' situation, but sacrificing personal liberties is not a solution that attracts me.

InvictusV's photo
Thu 05/13/10 03:07 PM

Mr. Codrescu speaks English as fluently as is his written English...probably far more proper than most of us. He does speak, however, with a delightful accent that may have at one time seemed attractive to many women in the U.S.

Accents were once considered exotic or attractive. Times change I suppose. Now it seems they are considered a threat. Very sad...I love recalling my great-uncle's voice with his English accent. He'd lived as a U.S. citizen for 3/4 of his life, but still had that accent when he passed.


where does it say that they can put you in jail for speaking english with an accent?

LouLou2's photo
Thu 05/13/10 03:08 PM

Arizona's new immigration law is outrageous to anyone who's had the bad luck of living in a country where fear of the police was a constant source of suppressed rage. A huge weight lifted off my psyche when I came to the U.S. from Communist Romania and was told that the police couldn't stop me just because I still wore my commie trench coat and spoke with an accent.

That was in 1966, and now in Arizona in 2010, the police can target both my trench coat and my accent. The Arizona Department of Education has told schools that teachers with "heavy" or "ungrammatical" accents are no longer allowed to teach English to kids just learning to speak the language.

Oh boy! Did I land back behind the Iron Curtain half a century ago? My last 40 years of teaching would have never happened if the Arizona law had been the law of the land in 1966. Forty years of accented instruction gone by the wayside! Gone also the 40 years when American education, lower and higher, finally recognized the diversity of America.



"Come to think of it, the Arizona law doesn't go far enough: People with accents should be banned from any profession that involves communication. Politics, for instance. Henry Kissinger's accent would surely qualify for the ban. And let's not stop with the foreign-born: Ban all accents. Southern accents, for instance, or Yankee ones. Actually, there isn't anyone who speaks without an accent, so let's just ban communicating altogether. This would be a much better country if everyone just kept quiet and handed his proof of citizenship to the police.

Arizona's immigration law should be rewritten to make every person who sees a policeman just go over to that policeman and hand over voluntarily, and quietly, proof of residency in the respective police district."

InvictusV's photo
Thu 05/13/10 03:10 PM


Arizona's new immigration law is outrageous to anyone who's had the bad luck of living in a country where fear of the police was a constant source of suppressed rage. A huge weight lifted off my psyche when I came to the U.S. from Communist Romania and was told that the police couldn't stop me just because I still wore my commie trench coat and spoke with an accent.

That was in 1966, and now in Arizona in 2010, the police can target both my trench coat and my accent. The Arizona Department of Education has told schools that teachers with "heavy" or "ungrammatical" accents are no longer allowed to teach English to kids just learning to speak the language.

Oh boy! Did I land back behind the Iron Curtain half a century ago? My last 40 years of teaching would have never happened if the Arizona law had been the law of the land in 1966. Forty years of accented instruction gone by the wayside! Gone also the 40 years when American education, lower and higher, finally recognized the diversity of America.



"Come to think of it, the Arizona law doesn't go far enough: People with accents should be banned from any profession that involves communication. Politics, for instance. Henry Kissinger's accent would surely qualify for the ban. And let's not stop with the foreign-born: Ban all accents. Southern accents, for instance, or Yankee ones. Actually, there isn't anyone who speaks without an accent, so let's just ban communicating altogether. This would be a much better country if everyone just kept quiet and handed his proof of citizenship to the police.

Arizona's immigration law should be rewritten to make every person who sees a policeman just go over to that policeman and hand over voluntarily, and quietly, proof of residency in the respective police district."


I don't care to read the article, you said accents were now considered a threat... who considers them a threat?

Aries151's photo
Thu 05/13/10 03:10 PM
I've said it before and I'll say it again. The only people who have anything to worry about are the ones who are doing something wrong.

LouLou2's photo
Thu 05/13/10 03:14 PM


Mr. Codrescu speaks English as fluently as is his written English...probably far more proper than most of us. He does speak, however, with a delightful accent that may have at one time seemed attractive to many women in the U.S.

Accents were once considered exotic or attractive. Times change I suppose. Now it seems they are considered a threat. Very sad...I love recalling my great-uncle's voice with his English accent. He'd lived as a U.S. citizen for 3/4 of his life, but still had that accent when he passed.


where does it say that they can put you in jail for speaking english with an accent?



I don't recall mentioning jail. I did, however, talk of how times had changed...and I imagine times will continue changing. I would mention, though, that under Arizona law, Mr. Codrescu would not have been able to teach here for 40 years...because of his accent.

no photo
Thu 05/13/10 03:16 PM

I've said it before and I'll say it again. The only people who have anything to worry about are the ones who are doing something wrong.


Are you talking specifically about the arizona law, or the overall issue of sacrificing liberties for the illusion of security?

LouLou2's photo
Thu 05/13/10 03:17 PM

I've said it before and I'll say it again. The only people who have anything to worry about are the ones who are doing something wrong.


"From your lips...", as they say. I hope you are right.

LouLou2's photo
Thu 05/13/10 03:21 PM



Arizona's new immigration law is outrageous to anyone who's had the bad luck of living in a country where fear of the police was a constant source of suppressed rage. A huge weight lifted off my psyche when I came to the U.S. from Communist Romania and was told that the police couldn't stop me just because I still wore my commie trench coat and spoke with an accent.

That was in 1966, and now in Arizona in 2010, the police can target both my trench coat and my accent. The Arizona Department of Education has told schools that teachers with "heavy" or "ungrammatical" accents are no longer allowed to teach English to kids just learning to speak the language.

Oh boy! Did I land back behind the Iron Curtain half a century ago? My last 40 years of teaching would have never happened if the Arizona law had been the law of the land in 1966. Forty years of accented instruction gone by the wayside! Gone also the 40 years when American education, lower and higher, finally recognized the diversity of America.



"Come to think of it, the Arizona law doesn't go far enough: People with accents should be banned from any profession that involves communication. Politics, for instance. Henry Kissinger's accent would surely qualify for the ban. And let's not stop with the foreign-born: Ban all accents. Southern accents, for instance, or Yankee ones. Actually, there isn't anyone who speaks without an accent, so let's just ban communicating altogether. This would be a much better country if everyone just kept quiet and handed his proof of citizenship to the police.

Arizona's immigration law should be rewritten to make every person who sees a policeman just go over to that policeman and hand over voluntarily, and quietly, proof of residency in the respective police district."


I don't care to read the article, you said accents were now considered a threat... who considers them a threat?


Then, please, don't trouble yourself to read it. Sad, though, that is what is wrong. No one is talking with each other. No one is willing to listen to another's view of things. To even read an article seems to threaten some.

InvictusV's photo
Thu 05/13/10 03:23 PM



Mr. Codrescu speaks English as fluently as is his written English...probably far more proper than most of us. He does speak, however, with a delightful accent that may have at one time seemed attractive to many women in the U.S.

Accents were once considered exotic or attractive. Times change I suppose. Now it seems they are considered a threat. Very sad...I love recalling my great-uncle's voice with his English accent. He'd lived as a U.S. citizen for 3/4 of his life, but still had that accent when he passed.


where does it say that they can put you in jail for speaking english with an accent?



I don't recall mentioning jail. I did, however, talk of how times had changed...and I imagine times will continue changing. I would mention, though, that under Arizona law, Mr. Codrescu would not have been able to teach here for 40 years...because of his accent.


really... the law doesn't allow citizens with accents to teach?


LouLou2's photo
Thu 05/13/10 03:28 PM




Mr. Codrescu speaks English as fluently as is his written English...probably far more proper than most of us. He does speak, however, with a delightful accent that may have at one time seemed attractive to many women in the U.S.

Accents were once considered exotic or attractive. Times change I suppose. Now it seems they are considered a threat. Very sad...I love recalling my great-uncle's voice with his English accent. He'd lived as a U.S. citizen for 3/4 of his life, but still had that accent when he passed.


where does it say that they can put you in jail for speaking english with an accent?



I don't recall mentioning jail. I did, however, talk of how times had changed...and I imagine times will continue changing. I would mention, though, that under Arizona law, Mr. Codrescu would not have been able to teach here for 40 years...because of his accent.


really... the law doesn't allow citizens with accents to teach?




"School districts in Arizona are under orders from the state's Department of Education to remove from classrooms teachers who speak English with a very heavy accent or whose speech is ungrammatical."

This is from a different article.

InvictusV's photo
Thu 05/13/10 03:29 PM
Edited by InvictusV on Thu 05/13/10 03:29 PM




Arizona's new immigration law is outrageous to anyone who's had the bad luck of living in a country where fear of the police was a constant source of suppressed rage. A huge weight lifted off my psyche when I came to the U.S. from Communist Romania and was told that the police couldn't stop me just because I still wore my commie trench coat and spoke with an accent.

That was in 1966, and now in Arizona in 2010, the police can target both my trench coat and my accent. The Arizona Department of Education has told schools that teachers with "heavy" or "ungrammatical" accents are no longer allowed to teach English to kids just learning to speak the language.

Oh boy! Did I land back behind the Iron Curtain half a century ago? My last 40 years of teaching would have never happened if the Arizona law had been the law of the land in 1966. Forty years of accented instruction gone by the wayside! Gone also the 40 years when American education, lower and higher, finally recognized the diversity of America.



"Come to think of it, the Arizona law doesn't go far enough: People with accents should be banned from any profession that involves communication. Politics, for instance. Henry Kissinger's accent would surely qualify for the ban. And let's not stop with the foreign-born: Ban all accents. Southern accents, for instance, or Yankee ones. Actually, there isn't anyone who speaks without an accent, so let's just ban communicating altogether. This would be a much better country if everyone just kept quiet and handed his proof of citizenship to the police.

Arizona's immigration law should be rewritten to make every person who sees a policeman just go over to that policeman and hand over voluntarily, and quietly, proof of residency in the respective police district."


I don't care to read the article, you said accents were now considered a threat... who considers them a threat?


Then, please, don't trouble yourself to read it. Sad, though, that is what is wrong. No one is talking with each other. No one is willing to listen to another's view of things. To even read an article seems to threaten some.


It isn't threatening at all. Comparing Arizona with Nicolae Ceauşescu's Romania is so ridiculous that I don't need to read anymore. It would be like me writing an article in which I compare Mexicans with Mayan Priests that sacrificed thousands of people so the crops would grow.. It's stupid and not at all relevant..


yellowrose10's photo
Thu 05/13/10 03:32 PM
"Come to think of it, the Arizona law doesn't go far enough: People with accents should be banned from any profession that involves communication. Politics, for instance.

That suggests to me that the AZ doesn't ban people because of an accent. Maybe I misread, but it seems he is saying the AZ law needs to be this way which means it isn't right now

Now I can understand a very thick accent when teaching in schools. My son had a college teacher with a VERY thick Korean accent. None of the students could understand anything he was saying. Part of being a teacher is communication. A slight accent or an accent where you can still understand the teacher is one thing, but when you can't understand because of the accent, then that isn't good communication IMO. I have a Texas accent and I would get frustrated myself if I was teaching or something up North and the students couldn't understand me due to my accent.

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