Topic: Is Knowledge a Gift from Satan | |
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You are taking this myth MUCH too seriously! Gwendolyn....sorry but that is how I debate ...I do it as if what's written in the bible is true ....and if Mingle2 had a "Little Elves Forum" ....then I would debate the issue as if Little Elves were true but the funny part is that the religious people in this forum claim that I don't take it seriously and you claim I do .....when both sides are ready to nail you to the cross...it means I'm being fair ...thanks for the compliment |
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I am not going off the point and I also notice that you do not address some of my comments and points. Gwendolyn ...the debate is about Satan giving knowledge to Adam and Eve....and you were bringing up Zeus and Loki and rape....were Zeus and Loki in the garden trying to rape Eve...or Adam perhaps? and that's why they ate from the fruit if the answer is no then you were going off the point |
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I found this and thought I would post it for others to read. It breaks down the knowledge which Adam & Eve acquired by eating the forbidden fruit.....
Not saying that this takes place from anything else that others have posted here but found it enlightening myself as to what happen and of what knowledge that Adam & Eve did gain at that time. But Eve was beguiled by the serpent and ate the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge and offered it to Adam, who also ate the fruit. This is when sin entered into the history of people. God cast them out of the garden. (Genesis 3:1-23) Now surely an all-knowing God would have to know that Adam and Eve would eat the forbidden fruit. So why did He tempt them by putting the tree there and telling them they couldn’t eat the fruit of it? Wasn’t it all a big set up? No, it wasn’t. God did not tempt them, Satan tempted. God didn’t set them up for failure He created them with freewill. God didn’t want to create beings that would worship Him mindlessly. He wanted for us to love Him because we choose to love Him. Freewill is His gift to us. If Adam and Eve had no choices in the garden, they would have been mere puppets. God had to set something apart that they could have a choice about. He gave them the choice of being obedient or not. The angels also have this choice. Satan and his demons were angels that chose not to love and obey God. God was merciful, not merciless, in His behavior with Adam and Eve. God walked with them and shared with them. He gave them paradise and asked that they avoid only one thing. If He were merciless, He would have given them a pit to live in rather than a paradise. If He were merciless, He would have surrounded them with forbidden fruits. If He were merciless, He would have given them no choices and would have ruled them from above with an iron fist. The Tree of Knowledge was the chosen tree because God wanted to spare Adam and Eve from corruption and maintain their innocence. Because of His gift of freewill, though, they had to have an opportunity to choose knowledge of all things or choose obedience. God was asking them to have faith that He knew what was best for them. Let’s take a closer look at what happened. Eve is in the center of the garden and observes the serpent. He says to her, “Hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?” She replies, “We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: 3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.” (Genesis 3:1-3) When God told Adam and Eve that they would die if they ate the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge, He was talking about spiritual death. Satan manipulates God’s Word and tells Eve that she won’t die, meaning her physical body will not die right then and there. This is the nature of Satan. He can take the Word of God and manipulate it to his own purpose. This is the very thing that he tried to do with Jesus in the wilderness. Knowing the Word of God helps you to defend yourself against Satan’s attacks. Next, he tells her that if she eats the fruit, she will be like God, having knowledge of all things good and evil. (Genesis 3:5) He tells her this is why God doesn’t want them to eat from the tree, that God doesn’t want them to be their own gods. Eve’s sin was not in trying to be like God. We are called to transform our behavior and our minds to be reflections of God. He made us in His image. Her sins were disobedience and deception. When Eve convinces Adam to eat the fruit, he was not deceived. He was taken with the idea of being his own god. Adam’s sins were pride and disobedience. Now that they have knowledge of good and evil, they know shame. They sew themselves fig leaf coverings in an attempt to hide their shame from God. This is symbolic of the barriers we erect around our sins trying to hide our shame. These barriers are what separate us from God. When God discovers them, they are cast out of the garden and cursed. God did not punish them by casting them out of the garden. (Genesis 3:22-24) This He did in mercy. Within the garden was also the Tree of Life. If Adam and Eve had eaten from the Tree of Life after having eaten from the Tree of Knowledge, they would have been forever condemned in sin. By casting them out of the garden, God was able to spare them eternal condemnation for their sin. The curse that Adam and Eve carried with them out of the garden was not of God’s making either. They brought the curse on by their choice of disobedience. The curse of Adam and Eve is original sin. No parents with minds corrupted by sin could raise children without infecting them with the corruption. Original sin is like a genetic virus, spread though all of us by the choice of these early parents. All sin requires a consequence. Consequences are the natural result of misbehavior. When a child misbehaves, the parent must provide consequences that the child can learn from. Man’s consequence is having to toil for a living. In the garden, he would not have had this burden. The burden is the reminder of the consequences of disobedience. Woman’s consequence has the same reminder; her consequence is the pain of childbirth. It is the reminder of the pain of sin. The way I decipher this is Adam and Eve gained the knowledge of sin, which along came the knowledge of shame, pride, disobedience & deception. But God had gave them freewill to make choices of their own. Satan actually had twisted God's words to make it look like he was lying. For what God meant by death was Spiritual Death not death of the body which is what Satan used. Telling them they would not die but in fact would be a God like themselves or and Angel. Eve did not deceive Adam to partake the fruit for he was overcome with the thought of becoming his own God. Therefore he made the choice as Eve did to partake the fruit. Satan painted a pretty picture and they believed him. But as far as knowledge of the world that is something that one gains as they live it. |
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You are taking this myth MUCH too seriously! Gwendolyn....sorry but that is how I debate ...I do it as if what's written in the bible is true ....and if Mingle2 had a "Little Elves Forum" ....then I would debate the issue as if Little Elves were true but the funny part is that the religious people in this forum claim that I don't take it seriously and you claim I do .....when both sides are ready to nail you to the cross...it means I'm being fair ...thanks for the compliment Hummmmm Funches I must say as long as I have been on this site and read your comments when it comes to the knowledge of the Bible. I will admit your knowledge far exceeds many that I know that consider themselves Christians. But..........then your right for in order for one to debate a subject they must debate it as if it is the truth. For why would one debate a Myth? JMO...... |
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Its called "Devil's Advocate" ... you don't believe it, but you're saying for the sake of argument (or in this case, debate) that it IS real. Logic is then used based on the "factual" presentation of the topic in question.
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The way I decipher this is Adam and Eve gained the knowledge of sin, which along came the knowledge of shame, pride, disobedience & deception. and this is where the controversy begins ...because Adam and Eve clearly had the knowledge of disobedience or how would they be able to disobey God and eat from the fruit this suggest that eating from the Tree gave them the ability to comprehend the knowledge they already had which means if God had given Adam and Eve the knowledge to comprehend sin beforehand would this knowledge have kept them from eating the fruit the story of Adam and Eve suggest that God was not omniscient or were being deceptive and all along intended for Man to fall and this can be shown in the post below God didn’t want to create beings that would worship Him mindlessly. He wanted for us to love Him because we choose to love Him. Freewill is His gift to us an omniscient God would have know that this would not take place and therefore be part of his Divine Plan that it wouldn't "Free Will" was not use as a gift but as a curse because it doesn't exist for that which is less than a God ...if Adam and Eve actually had "Free Will" then they could make the decision to disobey God without consequences agasint them ...since there was consequences for their actions this means that they only had "choice" only God can perform an action without consequences arising against him...he has "Free Will" Man doesn't ..that is why "Free Will" in Man is a deception |
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I dont understand the logic that consequence must be absent for free will to exist. Every action has a reaction,,,,,or consequence
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Hummmmm Funches I must say as long as I have been on this site and read your comments when it comes to the knowledge of the Bible. I will admit your knowledge far exceeds many that I know that consider themselves Christians. But..........then your right for in order for one to debate a subject they must debate it as if it is the truth. For why would one debate a Myth? JMO...... that the Earth is round was once upon a time a myth |
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I dont understand the logic that consequence must be absent for free will to exist. Every action has a reaction,,,,,or consequence if the action is going to personally cost you something ....then how is it Free |
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Its called "Devil's Advocate" ... you don't believe it, but you're saying for the sake of argument (or in this case, debate) that it IS real. Logic is then used based on the "factual" presentation of the topic in question. I couldn't have said it better myself if you treat everything that is said as being actual...then logic can be applied to find the contradictions or untruths |
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All sin requires a consequence. The burden is the reminder of the consequences of disobedience. Woman’s consequence has the same reminder; her consequence is the pain of childbirth. It is the reminder of the pain of sin. because of Satan granting to the human race the desire to obtain and comprehend knowledge.. the knowledge now exist for a drug induced C-Section ...hence no pain ...women now have the power not to have pain or the power not to get pregnant...they in fact do not even have to have the baby themselves and can implant the egg into a surrogate the possibilites are endless the more knowledge obtain...the more one becomes God and need less of God |
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I dont understand the logic that consequence must be absent for free will to exist. Every action has a reaction,,,,,or consequence if the action is going to personally cost you something ....then how is it Free you don't understand what free will is i see here. free will has nothing to do with costing you anything or not. Free will is just the ability to do it regardless of the consequence. Where there is an action there is always a reaction. We have free will in the sence that we can worship and love God or not, that is the action. A life full of God's blessings or Devils works is the reaction. Depending on what action you choose is what chooses the reaction. God doesn't FORCABLY make us worship him, he has given us the choice to worship him or not, but we'll have to take the reaction as well. Not having free will would be like being a puppet or robot controlled litereally by another, which we aren't. We choose what we do or say. |
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you don't understand what free will is i see here. free will has nothing to do with costing you anything or not. Free will is just the ability to do it regardless of the consequence. Where there is an action there is always a reaction. Cowboy...can God perform an action without it causing a reaction...or is he incapable of doing so? |
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You are taking this myth MUCH too seriously! Gwendolyn....sorry but that is how I debate ...I do it as if what's written in the bible is true ....and if Mingle2 had a "Little Elves Forum" ....then I would debate the issue as if Little Elves were true but the funny part is that the religious people in this forum claim that I don't take it seriously and you claim I do .....when both sides are ready to nail you to the cross...it means I'm being fair ...thanks for the compliment Brilliant! |
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Edited by
CowboyGH
on
Fri 04/16/10 11:57 AM
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you don't understand what free will is i see here. free will has nothing to do with costing you anything or not. Free will is just the ability to do it regardless of the consequence. Where there is an action there is always a reaction. Cowboy...can God perform an action without it causing a reaction...or is he incapable of doing so? lol that question isn't even logical funches. But yes to answere the question, God can do anything God wishes to do. Reason being God could do this is cause God created the physical laws we abide by including reaction to action. So therefor God could change or destroy any law at any time and or bend the laws if he wished. |
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Its called "Devil's Advocate" ... you don't believe it, but you're saying for the sake of argument (or in this case, debate) that it IS real. Logic is then used based on the "factual" presentation of the topic in question. great insight! very well said... |
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you don't understand what free will is i see here. free will has nothing to do with costing you anything or not. Free will is just the ability to do it regardless of the consequence. Where there is an action there is always a reaction. Cowboy...can God perform an action without it causing a reaction...or is he incapable of doing so? lol that question isn't even logical funches. the question is quite logical ...according to the Christian belief there is nothing that God's "Will" can not do and according to you it is impossible to use the "Will" to perform an action without a reaction .... so which is true...the bible or you? ... the question will force you to re-think what "Free Will" is and your answer will force you to realize what "Free WIll" isn't so which is it Cowboy.....is God incapable of performing an action without a reaction? ...and why? |
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God can do anything God wishes to do. Reason being God could do this is cause God created the physical laws we abide by including reaction to action. So therefor God could change or destroy any law at any time and or bend the laws if he wished. Cowboy..and with that you have just explain why only Gods have "Free WIll" and why humans don't |
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God can do anything God wishes to do. Reason being God could do this is cause God created the physical laws we abide by including reaction to action. So therefor God could change or destroy any law at any time and or bend the laws if he wished. Cowboy..and with that you have just explain why only Gods have "Free WIll" and why humans don't not really. Never claimed they have CONTROLL over where they will end up after they die. Only claimed they have the ability to do whatever they want to. But again with every action is a reaction so therefor with a bad action will result in a bad reaction. But nevertheless we have the physical ability to do that of which caused the bad reaction. We feel like walkin to the store, we can if and when we want to. We feel like eating, we can if and when we want to. We feel like robbing someone to gain more wealth, we can if and when we want to. But again we will have to also accept the reaction to these actions previousely mentioned. That is free will right there. We have the free ability to do God's will or Satan's will. |
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Cowboy said not really. Never claimed they have CONTROLL over where they will end up after they die. Then Cowboy said Only claimed they have the ability to do whatever they want to Cowboy..if they had the ability to do whatever they wanted to do then than would mean that they would also have control over where they would end up after they die ... your post is "Agnostically Contradictoral" I know that's probably not a word but that's the only way I can describe your post and your post below is the reason why Cowboy said God can do anything God wishes to do. so do humans have the "Free Will" to do anything and everything they wish to do the same as God ...it's a simply yes or no question ..either they can or they can't ....which is it |
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