From http://www.patternliteracy.com/selfreliancemyth.html

'Claiming self sufficiency in almost anything insults and ignores the mountain of shoulders we all stand on. US permaculturists are a pretty politically correct crew, and it became obvious to some of us that “self sufficient” was not just impossible, but was a slap in the face to all those whose sweat provides for us, and was another perpetuation of the cowboy ethic that puts the individual at the center of the universe. So the term morphed into “self reliance,” to show that we know we are interdependent, but are choosing to be less reliant on others. At its best, self reliance means developing skills to provide for basic needs, so we can stop supporting unethical and destructive industries. But I see much less need for self-reliant people who can do everything themselves, and much more need for self-reliant communities, where not everyone knows how to weave or farm, but there is clothing and food for all.'


I always shutter a little on the inside whenever I hear anyone claim they did something 'without ANY help from ANYONE'. I still believe it happens MUCH more rarely than it is claimed and the concept of 'self sufficiency' is most often used to keep some feeling superior and more entitled than others....what about you?

Well there is nothing wrong with relying on others and we all do in various ways. On the other hand there is nothing wrong with doing as many things for yourself as you can. It's fun and very fulfilling and educational. Working on things independently does not need to be pretentious at all!

I agree, we do on some level do things by ourselves. I shower, and brush my teeth and hair and pay for my car by myself.

However, I couldnt shower or brush my teeth and hair or HAVE a car if others hadnt given me the opportunity to WORK to earn the money to pay for the water, the toothbrush, the hairbrush, and the car.

People so easily forget that SOMEONE somewhere(whether they know them or not) had to reach out a hand to them in some way for them to accomplish much of anything.

Well it is not about brushing hair or teeth or bathing is it?



But really - no one has to give you the opportunity to work. There
is always an opportunity to work - somewhere for something.

Don't get me wrong. I think it is great to rely on others and be
part of a community and to recognize how we are all inter-related
in what we do. But having a variety of skills and building that
know-how and developing yourself is also just so important. It allows
everyone to contribute more to the beauty of the whole and amplifies
our collective accomplishment.

Talent and skill, Determination and accomplishment, Individual
achievement and teamwork. All of it together. Progress. Happiness.

Whenever I hear mention of "self sufficiency", I usually assumed that it is being applied to a group (not an individual) anyway.

I mean, SOLO self-sufficiency??? Sounds like someone wearing animal hide sitting by a fire roasting a wild board they caught in a trap. Which is cool if thats what you are into.

I think its great that communities, groups, households, whatever strive for a high degree of relative self-sufficiency as a group.

Oh, and the people I know who are into this kind of thing don't have cars.

Hell, one guy I know welds his own bicycle frames.

The majority of those claiming self-sufficiency are meaning that they are able to grow their own vegetables and are not dependent upond genetically modified and pesticided vegetables. There are some going back to farming, and are able to grow enough food and meat, and milk and cheese, etc. for themselves, again, without all of the chemicals and hormone crap involved. They also trade locally with people they know for what they don't have and need.

Some are getting back to solar panels and wind turbines so they don't have to be screwed over on prices. Well water, septic systems, etc.

I have become partially self-sufficient in my garden, as I grow my own vegetables and am slowly switching everything over to heritage type plants (and animals!) which means I can take the seeds and start next year again, rather then buy one year plants, like is sold at Wal-Mart. Most of the veggies get canned to get through winter. I kept lettuce growing year round, so I didn't have to buy that. I raise chickens and get eggs, so I never have to buy them. And in all honesty, the thought of eating store bought eggs is nauseating.

I buy meat grown locally and organically with someone who butchers them out. I can walk out in the pasture and know which cow and pig I'm getting.

Location helps, but I do have a car and a truck. I'm 20 minutes by vehicle, out of town. It wouldn't be feasible to ride a bike.

I know where my food comes from, how it all happens, and what's in it. Do you?!

Sure!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTzLVIc-O5E

Ick!

I agree with everything except to be paid , SOMEONE has to be willing to pay you,, thus give you the OPPORTUNITY to earn the money needed to survive.

Correct me if I'm wrong but i've looked at all the posts and what I've gathered is that self sufficient must not be put in the category of self reliant . I know self sufficient was not mentioned , but when speaking as "well someone had to make the tooth brush for me so that I could use it" , I feel that that statement is in fact looking more like self sufficient . As for self reliance I look at it as one being able to do things for themselves , by themselves . Not at who made the object needed to perform a task . Sustain life with no physical or emotional help . You could say self help . one who will find a way . That's how I feel about it . If it makes any sense .

Self sufficency is achievable...and isn't standng on other's shoulders...

obviously you are tangibly clueless...and spend a wee bit of time on google.

I have been studying my ancestry and learning about my great and great-great grandparents. I realize from this that I live a very privileged life in this country because of their hard work and sacrifices to make a better life for the future generations in my family.

No man is an island.

I have read the ancestory of my people here in this country....and cringe at the shame and guilt of the predatory massacre of a gentle race of Indigenous peoples....


this once WAS a peaceful island.

Yeah, the shame/guilt of our ancestry is at times palpably just insurmountable...

And, all in the name of the almighty conquest of self sufficiency, read: OWNERSHIP ...

The tribes and elders all sacrificed to massacre all over the world, since the beginning ...

... The echoes of the Klan were all over the South of my childhood ...

Then, what was done to the Native Americans ... Ughhh!

My daughter's Father is FULL Choctaw~Chikasaw ... His family is a direct echo of all that the Natives continue to suffer from the dark ravage ...

And? The Native Americans had already been kikkin' each others' arses, long before Leif arrived!

And, I, as a Norge Laplander ~ Eire Celt?

Have soul memory of what 'we did' ... Vikings ... *shudder*

... And what was done 'to us' Eirish ...

Then, the Eirish came here and did what had so viscously been done to them ...

Now, the 'Western World' has made cattle of the '3rd World' people and its lands.

I deeply feel connect w/ all the 'Trails of Tears' ... War, pure war ... THE Horror!

Oooooo, yea, self sufficiency ... NOT! BAD Game ...

ouch! most who claim self sufficiency are NOT indeed self sufficient

1 : able to maintain oneself or itself without outside aid : capable of providing for one's own needs <a self–sufficient farm>

most of us dont stand on anyones shoulders but instead we DO benefit from someone reaching out their hand in some way,,,

wealth is achievable and yet most are not wealthy,,,self sufficiency is achievable but MOST in america are not self sufficient,

it was originally a post about the claim of self sufficiency vs the reality of it in our culture,,,it wasnt a statement of whether it was at all possible

I imagine, if one isolated themself somewhere, they could still survive if they had knowledge of hunting, planting, cooking,,etc,,,,
but MOST people in the american culture shop for food and travel in cars and have to pay for shelter and heat and water,,,and are therefore not the definition of self sufficient although they often claim they have achieved or acquired things 'with no help'

someone , somewhere, has usually done something that aided us in our accomplishments,,

Ok ... I see this all the time and I just have to say that I feel no shame/guilt for my ancestry. Sorry.

Whatever choices/decisions/atrocities/humanities my great-great-grandfather or my great-great-great-great-great-grandfather performed of his own free will are not the choices I make of mine.



This never was a peaceful island, continent or world, for that matter. Introduce a large number of people to any environment and bad stuff happens. Before people, animals were stalking, chasing and eating other animals. Want peace, destroy all life on Earth.

As far as self-sufficiency goes, it doesn't hurt and can in fact be beneficial to the community. The less resources that any one person consumes from those provided means that there are more for those who cannot provide their own and less are required for distribution. If I have my own generator, then the person next door pays less for their electricity because there's another 15kw/day that's uncontested on the grid. If I grow my own food then there is more to feed those who cannot afford their own. Etc., Etc.

And beyond all of that, its better for the environment as a whole to strive for self-sufficiency. The less that's done centrally (industrial complexes that produce things in bulk for those who cannot themselves), the less pollutant impact on the world. How many things can you think of that are mass produced (like your car) every year that isn't sold and eventually scrapped? That means wasted energy in creation, wasted materials in creation, wasted time in creation, wasted resources that could have been better used elsewhere, wasted space, wasted advertising and on and on and on, only to be destroyed and recycled (which consumes at least 15% of the recycled materials).

Does not self-sufficiency for as many individuals as possible seem a far better direction?

Ok, I misunderstood what you were saying then. I think what should be focused on instead of contesting the idea of complete self-sufficiency, should be a focus on exactly how these people or groups ARE self-sufficient. I don't think it really matters how they're still dependent on one thing or another, but congratulate them on how they're contributing to the whole by not consuming resources that others--who do not care to be self-sufficient in any regard--can make use of.

right, I wasnt criticizing self sufficiency , I was promoting that we aknowledge that self involvement should not blind us to the contributions others make to keep our community and our culture, and even our own individual lives,,,flowing

Good grief this is ridiculously deep!! I AM self sufficient in terms of being independent, however, occasionally I get take out, does that mean I depend solely on someone else to prepare meals for me...?? God puts everyone on this earth to help when help is needed and to me, ultimately, HE is the only one I depend on totally!!

He provides my needs and my occasional wants in life, simple as that!!

Say whatever you want OP, but HE also gives me a brain and self will to do as I please...I just choose to live my life relying on no ONE person and give HIM the praise for it all!

I learned self sufficiency through wise teachings...perhaps others who are also self sufficient...

oh...and as far as "ancestry" goes...I think too many ethnic groups live in the past to blame others for their lack of willingness to achieve greater things...nuff said!