Duffy, thank you for sharing your experience. That is very intense.

Great Story!

And that's your privilege, but having a uterus and having been pregnant doesn't necessarily make one an authority who can declare that biochemists, doctors and scientists wrong only on the basis of their subjective experience and the gender of those who present scientifically verifiable evidence contradicting those impressions.

Just because one can pregnant doesn't mean they'd know if their pregnancy was ectopic and/or what to do about it before it became fatal. It doesn't mean they'd know what eclampsia was or how to treat it.

In short, it doesn't mean that anyone who can't get pregnant can be logically excluded from considering the moral aspects of a biological function based on scientific inquiry and verifiable knowledge.

-Kerry O.

KO...ur n engineer who mentions ectopic,fatal, and eclampsia conditons. those r variations on the theme.

then, u say things that most engineers would say. u mention turkeys, know what 2 kiss and when, and that it is an accident we r here. and make peace w/your god whoever that is...maybe a cosmic muffin? oh well.

i am not engineer. i was a mother, and i went through pregnancy. i am authorized to speak on the subject. until you get pregnant, u r not authorized to know what u r talking about.

Don't give yourself so much credit. You have an opinion, we all know that. Half of the population has the ability to get pregnant and most of them have or will at some time. That does not make you the expert.

as i said before, i was pregnant for 9/10 (really).. months, and during that time the unliving thing in my body attached to MY ,,,,unliving... uterine wall, taught me much about life. and it was not about the unliving. it was about life the moment it gets the sperm all fired up to travel up that unliving canal to find that unliving egg to create that unliving human being.

it does not make me the expert, this experience called pregnancy.
it makes me ONE of the experts...having been there done that... with sufficient knowledge, having gone through the process, to state the facts in a generalized fashion that even most people would not quibble with except for those that like to argue.

Oh, I don't know, my being a member who follows the rules of the forum DOES authorize me to advance arguments based on scientific principles. As a far-to-often sufferer of cerebral hemmorhages, I think I can empathize with someone who has to have emergency surgical intervention to survive internal bleeding as is the case with ectopic pregnancies. In the case of those types of pregnancies, the fetus almost has to be sacrificed to save the life of the woman.

As someone who often rubs elbows with people who have Ph.D's in biochemistry doing genetic research, I'm betting I can trump your knowledge of the mystery of life. I'm involved in the building and improving of the machines they use to gather this data, the machines that allow them to see what people before the 1900's never saw or knew before. I also have done a lot of research as to why I ended up with a congenital anaomoly that only .001% of the population experiences.

I gather you have a low opinion of people who don't believe in your god, as THAT has been an almost constant component of your rebuttals. It's also one of your weakest arguments, as, probably much to your chagrin, religious arguments and those whose agendas they support have been steadily losing grounds for their agenda in courts of laws. They just lost a huge one a short time ago in Dover, Pa-- right on my back doorstep, so to speak.

Lastly, there is a HUGE gulf between experiencing something and _understanding_ something that those humble seekers of knowledge well understand.

Believe me, I won't be deterred by your attempts to shout me down or flame me. I'll keep making my points based on science. I'll also just report your posts that do so as rulebreaking and you'll be removed if you keep it up.

-Kerry O.

Well said KerryO!!!

this is a public forum, and i want to state that i am not flaming or shouting anyone down.
we r what our bio states. those of us that put up garbage, also spew forth garbage.

i stated that if you have not gone through pregnancy, then u r not really certifed to speak on the subject of it, and i will maintain my stand.

That is illogical thinking.

As Kerry O so concisely stated...

There is a huge gap in between having an experience and _understanding_ that experience. That gap is filled by knowledge, which does not necessarily require having the experience.

Life starts at intercourse

After deleting several post and editing others as well this thread is being unlocked.

Please when posting take consideration not to attack others for what is said make your responses pertain to the subject not another.

We do understand that these type of threads tend to bring forth many emotions. But........we must all remember that others have opinions just as much as the next person does. In reality no one is 100% right there is always room within any subject for debate.

Please always be considerate of others and if it comes a time you can not post your thoughts with the respect not to offend others at times it is best to step back and think how your response will be taken by others. It only takes a few minutes before you hit that REPLY button to re-read what you wrote to double check that your post are not said out of anger.


Thank You
Site Mod
Kristi

LOL! It's _humor_. That's got to be about your weakest argument yet. And not without a touch of irony, either.



And exactly what intellectual credentials are required for a woman to become pregnant? At a minimum, they certainly can't achieve that feat without a little help from members of the male population, so I could make a case that just showing up is half the battle. Last time I checked, human parthenogenesis only worked for generating stem cell lines. As fast as the science is changing, though, that may soon not be true, despite all the political interference being brought to bear.

You hinted at having morning sickness. Are you prepared to state exactly which biochemical transactions happen under a woman's conscious control to ramp down and change their immune system responses so it won't attack the embryo? Because that's what is behind it, not some quaint notion that the unborn don't like the menu.

And it's not only pregnant women experience nausea. If you'll excuse the expression, when I was in the neuro ICU the last two times for cerebral bleeding, I had, for about two weeks, the Mother of All nausea attacks and had to have Reglan in my IV drip the whole time. Which, BTW, didn't always work-- one time I yorked all over the CAT scanner. Oh, I'm sure the morphine didn't help that, but it made the pain bearable.

But that said, just having had those experiences did NOT make me a neurosurgeon.


-Kerry O.

well KO become a neurosurgeon and give up the engineering.

i have been forbidden to speak more on the subject.:):):):):):):)(.)

Well Duffy, if I do, you'll be the first to know. :) Besides, there are easier ways to work on someone's nerves and get in their heads.


-Kerry O.

phitttttt(.)(.)