at the moment of conception a NEW living organism is formed, what is a living organism....living being the key word.....

round and round we go, what came first the chicken or the egg, does an unborn fetus have a soul, when is a baby a baby, was God a man or a woman, or Bi....wth

thing is, if you terminate something that is living, what have you done........Killed, murdered...hmmm

No, "murder" is not simply "to kill something that is living. We kill animals every day and make hamburgers out of them.

It not "murder" to kill a cat or a dog. People do it all the time. A dog or cat get old and sick and they are "put to sleep." That is not "murder."

If I define "life" to require something to be purple, my definition would be worthy of disregard by everyone else on earth. Your definition, and mine, are irrelevant. In biology, for something to be alive it must grow and be capable of reproducing on its own. Sperm can do neither of the above. They are not alive. They act via chemical reaction, much like EVERYTHING ELSE. This does not mean they are alive. Prions cause disease, but they're nothing but protein ions. Do you consider them to be alive as well?

I see the OPs point of looking at life as one long continuous stream of living thing, instead of individuals giving life to new individuals. And like so many said, most lineage is severed, without it being murder.

You can look at an egg and sperm; they are products of life since three billion years ago; yet could each be called a life? Maybe, but it's not human life, since in order to be human, you need in each cell a complete set of chromosomes, and each egg and each sperm carry only half a set of chromosomes.

So hold; life continues, but when a human manufactures a living egg or a living sperm inside of him or herself -- that cell is not human? It's not dog, that's for sure. Or a fir. Fir sure.

If not all cells in humans are actually part of a human -- maybe all cells are each in its own right SEPARATE from the human which they make up?

What does that do to our human consciousness? Is it a consciousness that is singular to the human, or is it a consciousness that is made up of tiny little consciousnesses, one for each cell in the human, and their conglomerate manifests to the human as one entity, a soul, so to speak? I mean, it's possible maybe that the human soul is not one big honking single entity, but the sum of all the little souls of all the little cells combined?

Hm. This makes human murder a self-contradiction. We cannot murder a human, if it means that the human loses his soul at murder, and his soul is billions of tiny little souls put together. Since murdering one cell, or letting it die, is not murder, such as when you cut a piece of skin off your chin when you shave, then why would it matter how many little souls we kill? It's a little soul that we kill when we kill a cell, and if we kill one little soul, it's not murder; we kill two little souls, it's not murder; at how many little soul's death we caused can we call our action a murder? Surely, we amputate arms and take out parts of humans and throw them away. That's a huge chunk, literally billions of little souls. And the entire human is not an order of magnitude more little souls put together than an arm.

So... discontinuation of life, whether it's natural or caused by man, is not a murder; then what is?

murder: The unlawful killing of one human by another, especially with premeditated malice


I think four words rule out natural death;
UNLAWFUL, HUMAN, PREMEDITATED, and MALICE.

soul thingy>? that is a good topic...when does the soul begin...well right when u funicate dearie, and geta little eggie and spermie doing their doggie dance.

murder???? u talking abortion here?
how many believe in abortion? sometimes it is necessary.

I consider everything to be alive and part of a living universe.

What makes the fetus a morally relevant agent?

Let's see: It doesn't have any long term goals, doesn't feel pain (every medical research shows that, especially in the first 4 months of pregnancy), and isn't self-aware. Until it's proven otherwise, this is still a woman's right to choose issue.

As far as I'm concerned, this will ALWAYS be up to the woman.

any time u funicate, and egg meets sperm, a life begins when one swims upstream to meet the other boys, and girls. otherwise, u don't want life, then use condoms. and that is preventing fertilization. that is not murder.
murder is when there is a fetus in the body, and doctor uses something whether it is medicine or surgical to remove it. call it what u want.

Legally, that is not true. It is not murder to remove a fetus and destroy it. Legally a fetus is not considered "alive" or "a person."

Life involves taking a breath of air. A baby, even after having been born, must take a few breaths of air before it is considered to have lived. If a baby is born, and never takes a breath of air, and dies shortly thereafter, it is considered "still born."

Because of these laws, you cannot call abortion "murder." Murder is illegal. Abortion is not.

well have u ever had an abortion?
if u have had one, then u know what having a fetus taken from your body is about.
it is murder.

This is both an appeal to emotion and an appeal to authority. Both are logical fallacies. You cannot make objective judgments about something you yourself are biased towards.

According to your definition, nothing can die, so murder is not a crime, as it does not exist. Where are you going with this?

the question was "have u ever had an abortion"?????

if u have, you know that it is the taking of a life. end of story.
i am not appealing to anything. i am stating a fact.

True. Everything simply changes form.

But "murder" is a man made law (hence a crime, so says the law.)It is a law against changing and destroying someone's body or form with intent and against their will.

We (humans) believe we have a right to live as humans without someone invading us and killing our body which is our universe.

Where am I going? No place. Everything is here now. The universe is a living thing. (Lets hope some other universe does not disrupt and kill it.)

"Eeeevery sperm is saaaaacred!

Eeeeevery sperm is goood!

Every sperm is neeeeeeded!

In your neighborhood!"

Whomever you are asking this personal question, it is irrelevant. You cannot be "stating a fact." The law and the definition of human life are not going to back you up. You are clearly stating your opinion, and you are certainly within your rights to have an opinion. An embryo is not a person, legally. That is a fact.

It is also not a person biologically or spiritually in my personal opinion because it has no self awareness or identity. I believe in spirit and that life is eternal, and that bodies are animated by spirit entities incarnate into the body sometime directly before or after birth and that it is the spirit that gives life, not the biological processes. Without the spirit, the body dies. A body is not a person, neither is an embryo.

That is like saying a seed is a tree.

Facts are independently verifiable. You are stating an opinion, and using an argument that relies on two logical fallacies. Your position is invalid because of this.

I can use your line of reasoning to say that since you have never seen under the hood of my car, you cannot possibly claim that it is not powered by magical pixies. Therefore, it is a fact that my car is powered by magical pixies.