"If a sperm gets waaaasted,

God gets quite irate!"

I believe my son's sperm should be waaaasted right down the drain during the shower...at this point of their lives.

Yet, many states consider it double homicide to kill a pregnant woman. The laws are not exactly rigid as to what defines life....

IN the end (unfortunately in my opinion) it is up to the mom to determine if it is a life or not,,,so long as the mom lives that is

Somehow, the phrase "my son's sperm" just doesn't seem right to me. Like those words ought not to be assembled in the same phrase.





Are you a monty python fan?

Really? Do you know which states? Can you sight any cases? I have seen this argued on some shows in television but don't know if anyone has ever been successfully prosecuted for a double homicide or murder regarding a pregnant woman. Do you know of any?

Scott Peterson comes to mind,, IM sure there are plenty of others, but his was pretty notorious.

Yes that may have had something to do with the fact that the baby was seven and a half months along. I think that was in California. I'm surprised they even allowed him to be charged with the death of the baby since it had not yet been born. Still, if she had had it at that time it probably would have survived at seven and a half months. I doubt if that would have happened if she had been a week or two weeks pregnant. I can understand it at seven and a half months though.

fetus is alive. i don't care what u say. it starts kicking about 3 months, and moving around.

Like I said, everything is alive. That is my belief.

But what I said is that a fetus is not a person.

My definition of "life" is different from the standard legal or scientific one.

the moment u funkicate, and sperm unites with egg, and the egg attaches itself to the uterine wall, a life begins.
about 3 mos....u feel butterflies...about 4 mos, it starts kicking....it might be little but it can kick.

there is a life in that womb dearie regardless of what science or legal standard says. it is attached to the mother, it takes food, it can be affected by alcohol or smoke, any kinds of meds.

from the moment conception began with my daughter, she was in there, and alive. when she came out, that made her the whole person.she gulped air because she was cut off from me.
but she was alive before she arrived. ask any mother,...
end of story.

Duffy like I said, everything is alive. That is my belief. I am not saying a fetus is "not alive," so I agree with you that it is 'alive' because EVERYTHING is alive in my opinion. (It is just not a "person" any more than a fertilized egg is a chicken.) End of story.

oh well, we agree partly.

So, Duffy, what you have effectively done is cover your ears and eyes to the evidence and sit there shouting "NAH NAH CAN'T HEAR YOU!!!"

You haven't provided a single cogent point. All you have done is say that you don't care what anyone else thinks, that a fetus is alive, and then had the sheer arrogance to call your personal opinions (I might add that I see them as silly and irrelevant) "facts."

Plus, you claimed that the fetus starts kicking at 3 months, then changed your figure to 4 months one post later. Are you using ANY facts to form your arguments?

maybe i said i did not care what other people think...because i do have my own opinions on what constitutes life and death, because i have been pregnant a time or two. have you. fact. nope.

fetus starts moving around like butterflies at about 3 months. then, at about 4 months does start kicking.fact. the fetus in my body did, and it grew to 9 l/2 lbs which grew into a 5'9"/150 lb. woman. fact.

fact is that it( the egg-fertilized) is attached to the mother's body by an umbilical cord where it gets it's oxygen and nurishment. fact. have you ever had anything inside of you attached to you. nope. fact.

fact. once the fetus which you or the rest of you say is not alive, is scraped or sucked from the uterine wall during an abortion process is murder. fact.

I guess. What if the egg starts to kick? "Get away from me, you morons... I don't want any guy to get under my skin. I am lesbian," is the egg then alive? A person? Well, she has free will, that's for sure. Makes her that into a person?


I believe you have all the rights to your beliefs and convictions, and nobody can call you names for that. But I also believe that a single person's belief does not give her the excuse to observe the law of the land. Establishing when a fetus is alive or a person is arbitrary; nobody can say, actually, for sure, and nobody can say, more importantly, that the other person is wrong in his or her belief. But the law must be upheld.

Duffy, I like you and I've enjoyed yours posts. It seems to me that La Muerte is simply trying to elevate the quality of conversation here in a particular way, and for this I am very grateful towards LM.

Thank you, LM.!

This is an emotionally charged topic for many, and for good reason.

I hope, though, that you aren't confusing a critique of your argument with an argument for the opposite position. This happens a lot in these threads; not only is it illogical, it is unfair to the person doing the critiquing.

When life begins is, in my opinion, irrelavant. The real question is should we allow the death of one in exchange for the improvement of life for another?

I am pro-choice. It is my feeling that we already have more than enough unwanted babies.

i will end it by saying i believe the fetus is alive in the mother's body....from the point of conception and i can tell you how that happened..upside down in the back seat of a volkswagon by the light of the full moon.
i was a mother, and that fetus was very much alive. at month one and two, she made me puke if i stuffed anything in there she did not like which was only cottage cheese and crackers. pickles, and ice cream she hated.
she fluttered at 3 months, and she kicked at 4. by month 6, she was turning around, and kicking vigorously. by month 9, she wanted out.

i knew when she was conceived, and for 9 months she was alive in my uterus, and u cannot tell me otherwise. she was a live birth, but she was living before that.

now when all of u get pregnant or have an abortion and r qualified to speak on the subject let me know. we will go at this again.until then i will maintain my stand.

agreed that my points are probably pointed, self centered, not really factual, nor r they tested by the FDA. but i am here to tell ya folks it was me in the back seat of that volkswagon that got pregnant by immaculate conception because the father took off, and denied he did it. there was no petrie dish involved. one poke did it, and from there, the stomach grew as an alien was living in there taking oxygen and food from the mother via an umbilical cord that provided everything this unliving thing needed. she didn't know she was unliving, because she was bent on getting the hell out of that dark place, so she could breathe fresh air. and at month 9, she started to kick and the pain that came with that unliving thing was so bad, that finally she kicked her way out. that unliving thing did....did she know she was not alive. hell no. and the first thing that unliving thing did when she became living is scream and yell, and she looked right at me for i held the reins of life, her milkbags.

You sound very passionate, and I have no interest in arguing the central topic. I will say that you don't seem like you are actually thinking about what LM is actually saying. This happens to me a lot in these forums, when people are attached to their opinions, so I would like to comment on it here, when I see it happening to LM.



You seem to have several stands. A position on life, a position on abortion, a position on LM, a position on logic, etc etc. Are you intent on maintaining all of them, exactly as they are?