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Topic: All We Are Saying, Is Give Peace A Chance
Ladylid2012's photo
Fri 12/18/09 06:00 PM


The violent nature and controversial social effects of war raise troubling moral questions for a thoughtful person. Is war always wrong? Might there be situations when it can be a justified? Is war an outcome of unchangeable human nature or of changeable social practice?

War is a phenomenon which occurs between political communities and it seems that all warfare is precisely, and ultimately, about governance. Carl Von Clausewitz the (so-called) philosopher of war famously suggested that war is “the continuation of policy by other means”. Governance by bludgeon might be a better way of putting it.
We all had high hopes going into the new millennium in 2000. In many communities the midnight bells were followed by John Lennon’s call to peace -“Imagine”. Within a year Afghanistan was invaded. Within 2 years the US and UK went with the utmost belligerency into a war on Iraq. The Lancet estimated that 601,000 people were killed in Iraq between 2003 and 2006. The rule of non-combatant immunity has been replaced by the heartless term ‘collateral damage’.

Can there be such a thing as a just war when aggression is defined as the use of armed force in violation of someone else's basic rights? Aggression attacks the very spine of human civilization. Is it not absurd to punish someone for an offense they have yet to commit? International law forbids preemptive strikes unless they are clearly authorized in advance by the UN Security Council.

The just causes most frequently mentioned include self-defense from external attack and the protection of innocents from brutal regimes. Terrorism is the use of random violence against civilians with the specific intent of spreading fear throughout a population and advancing a political objective. Terrorism is not overcome by killing the same innocents which the notion of a just war is professed to protect.

The nature of humans is formed by their experiences and education. This is changeable. Unless practical and effective alternatives to violence are offered, policy-makers without imagination will always tend to favor the default method (violence), borne from historical teaching rather than future planning.

Military approaches to conflict have limited use and often make the underlying problem worse. They are also very expensive. For every dollar spent globally on conflict prevention and conflict resolution by non-military means, nearly 2,000 times as much is spent on defense and the military. The average direct cost of one violent conflict is $64 billion. With just a fraction of that sum, violence could be nipped in the bud, thousands of lives saved and many millions in post-conflict reconstruction costs avoided.

Since the early 1990s more wars have ended by negotiated settlement than by military victory, and yet the chances of violent conflicts restarting are still almost 50%. Ignition or re-ignition of violent conflict is much more likely where local peace builders are insufficiently mobilized or resourced to engage in the peace process. Non violent resolution to conflict is entirely possible. The only thing lacking is funding.

One organization which encourages dialogue on the practical means to prevent, transform and resolve violent conflict is the APPGCI. Read more here - http://www.conflictissues.org.uk

MirrorMirror's photo
Fri 12/18/09 06:03 PM
glasses The Draconians do not want this because they feed upon the negative spiritual energy that we humans release through our conflicts.glasses

no photo
Fri 12/18/09 06:11 PM
:cry: Peace flowerforyou

fastlinnie's photo
Fri 12/18/09 06:26 PM
Edited by fastlinnie on Fri 12/18/09 06:31 PM

glasses The Draconians do not want this because they feed upon the negative spiritual energy that we humans release through our conflicts.glasses
The monkey knows.: laugh

lilott's photo
Fri 12/18/09 06:51 PM
If someone is threatening my life and family then you can bet I'll go to war.

Ladylid2012's photo
Fri 12/18/09 09:16 PM

:cry: Peace flowerforyou


flowerforyou

no photo
Fri 12/18/09 11:40 PM
Edited by JaneStar1 on Fri 12/18/09 11:56 PM
War, actually, is the outcome of failed diplomacy -- when negotiating parties fail in reaching the agreement.

_________________On the other hand_________________
war is the best vehical for stimulating a stagnating economy -- that's why most of the wars have started during the economic crizis... -- increased production reduces the unemployment, selling arms to either of the warring parties also brings huge profits that further stimulate the economy...

............ WAR IS THE INSTANT GRATIFICATION!

(*** not that I agree with such policy! *** But, so far, nothing has been devised instead of that horrible economic stimulator!!! ***)
And, sometimes (like in case of Livia, Khadafi) the pre-emptive strike was necessary for protection of the allies -- before the conflict escalates into something much more serious...

Certainly, preemptive strikes ought to be authorized in advance by the UN Security Council. But then the pre-emptiveness of the strike -- which relies on the effect of the unexpectedness -- would be worthless and not as effective!

For over 65 years the world has avoided the WWW -- World Wide War! The population explosion, fueled by the advances of the medical research, would have brought the world to the brink of Hunger & Overpopulation some 15-20 years ago, if it wasn't for all of those "little" local wars that, mostly, occure in the underdeveloped countries -- so that there won't be any risc of employing the nuclear weapons.

**** It may be a startling news to some, but I'm sure the UN Security Commitee itself -- which consists of the major super powers that comprise a Marshal Commitee -- may be involved in estimating what countries are the "safest" to engage in a "little local war" -- the most losses at the least expenses! (you might've heard of the elite "secret societies", i.e. local representatives of the Marshal Commitee...)

Terrorism might be the unexpected, yet helpful, side-effect in that regard -- although such a random element is highly unpredictable and, therefore, undesireable!

I suspect the unpredictability the world might be under a much greater control than seems at the surface... * * *
Yet, the general public shouldn't concern itself with such issues... Pursuit of happinness is a much more worthy endaevor!!! (while such organizations as APPGCI, and the like, give people a sense of hope -- thus giving the renegades a false sense of security...)

Ladylid2012's photo
Sat 12/19/09 08:43 AM

If someone is threatening my life and family then you can bet I'll go to war.


a war is necessary for you to protect you and your family? hummm

newarkjw's photo
Sat 12/19/09 08:46 AM

vass3rd's photo
Sat 12/19/09 08:56 AM
war/violence is caused by 3 things :
instinct
'intellectual' differences *any excuse you can name EG religion,hatred*
greed/desire

the complete destruction of the human species is the only way to end all war and violence


i would love for all my brothers and sisters to come home,to let the rest of the world continue to destroy itself as it always has and always will

Quietman_2009's photo
Sat 12/19/09 09:36 AM
Edited by Quietman_2009 on Sat 12/19/09 09:36 AM
there has never been a period in all the history of mankind when there wasn't some sort of war or conflict going on

I think its just the nature of man to be violent towards one another

even when we in the european and american cultures are talking about evolving past violence there was still Ruwanda and Somalia and Dharfur going on

Iraq is really a continuation of the first Gulf War (Iraq and Iran) and Saddam's aggression towards most every one. His invasion of Kuwait was a continuation of it and our eventual invasion of Iraq. all that was tied together and a kind of linear progression of events

Atlantis75's photo
Sat 12/19/09 03:11 PM

war/violence is caused by 3 things :
instinct
'intellectual' differences *any excuse you can name EG religion,hatred*
greed/desire



I beg to differ. No. one cause of war: Fear and the use of fear to drum up support.




Biohazard's photo
Sat 12/19/09 05:41 PM
war the final means to the end. i hate to say it but war is neccessary beacuse. there is always a force that has to come on top. with out the flex of a strong arm then there would to many bands of crimals to contend with. the averge person would have no way to surrive with out being in one of these bands. however its mans fault that the death toll has reached new hights. well i do belive that if some must die so be it to save millions.

ever sense mans raise from the muck and screamed I AM GOD we have been trying out best to be on top of all things. war is just another way to show this.

climber83's photo
Mon 12/21/09 10:56 PM
Edited by climber83 on Mon 12/21/09 10:58 PM
I believe that a world without "war" is possible and maybe probable.
I think there will always be greed, fear, and inequality. These are facts of life like sickness and death.

Every man is flawed with these things and other damaging traits to some extent, but I believe that we are capable of (eventually)creating an international system of government by the people and for the people that can end war. As long as free education, free speech, and true democracy is held.

Not to say that there will be no revolution along the way but growth of any kind is a violent process.

I think some people are on the right track, and I think that the collective conscience, social evolution, God's plan, nature's path, whatever you want to call it, is leaning in that direction.

Technology is giving a big part to that cause by bridging the communication gap around the world.

I know that mass media, big governments, and control over education brings to mind big brother and 1984 with a greedy wizard behind the curtain but I believe that the human spirit is stronger than the greed of men.

maybe this sappy Christmas spirit is just getting to my headrofl
IDK thoughts?



no photo
Tue 12/22/09 12:54 AM
Edited by JaneStar1 on Tue 12/22/09 12:57 AM
You may be right, happy climber83. I like your positive outlook!

In another 10-15 years -- when space exploration will take off -- humanity will become busy with conquering new frontiers!!!

War will become a thing of the past -- a sure sign of backwardness -- frowned upon by everybody!!!

P.S. ... and you'll be capable of stopping "climbing the wals" in frustration!!!... ................................................LOL

no photo
Tue 12/22/09 05:24 PM


I think its just the nature of man to be violent towards one another


I agree, but I think its also the nature of man to rape, to seize food by force when hungry, to pee and defecate a soon as discomfort is experienced (if not in danger). Its the nature of man to form groups, and to fear and hate outsiders.

And yet we have billions of people who, through culture, have overcome most or all of the above tendencies. We still have people doing all the above in our communities, but these are the exceptions and not the cultural norm (in many places).

We have created continent spanning civilizations that are nearly free of internal warfare (gang violence being an exception).

Our current worldwide culture encourages nationalistic wars. It is no stretch to imagine a worldwide culture that discourages, instead of encourages, such war. Which is not to say that it would be stamped out, just greatly reduced.

I absolutely think its possible to eventually eliminate war from out planet, through the evolution of our culture, without greatly changing our genetics.


no photo
Tue 12/22/09 08:21 PM
Edited by JaneStar1 on Tue 12/22/09 08:22 PM
Maybe my estimations are a bit optimistic, i.e. not 10-15 years, but 15-20... Though it is enavitable! And once it started, nobody would want to stay behind... (even the terrorists!!!) Then,

In another 15-20 years -- when space exploration will take off -- humanity will become busy with conquering the immeasurable new frontiers!!!

War will become a thing of the past -- a sure sign of backwardness -- frowned upon by everybody!!!

Though, the redistribution of wealth will become a popular measure of combatting the terrorism -- as the most effective way of bringing those bustards to the table for negotiations.


no photo
Tue 12/22/09 08:57 PM
... The 'Ever has it been' Comments remind me of the scene in Space Odyssey 2000 film when the Neanderthal is beating the bone and seems lost in a battle cry dance!

Will we ever know how much is nature and how much is nurture???

We are so protected on this land, no wars here in any living generation's lives...

When I lived in Europe, war was spoken of in reverent, hushed tones DAILY, constantly! The memories are recent and alive and it better determines the population to be against it ...

The Governments are another entity all together, it is just business as usual in their terms!

I actually miss the gruesome film footage outlawed for this war, that we were exposed to on the nightly news in the Vietnam era! It was replete w/ the real time scenes of the war itself, coffins coming home and the ravaged land and people of Vietnam!

It helped us as a society have connected to the war feelings then, and so make a BIG difference towards it ending. We do have the power to have our lives be a stand against it, and be counted. Albeit it ever so difficult to effect governments to seek ceasefire and to vacate, it can be done!

One really is either part of the problem or the solution. No real neutral. Stand and be counted, again and again ...

I agree, visualize whirled peas ... I mean World Peace!

NB ... 'Charlie Wilson's War' is a very informing as to how we escalated into the current conflicts. Esp. the extras clips of the real behind the scenes build up ... See it!

no photo
Tue 12/22/09 10:31 PM
Edited by JaneStar1 on Tue 12/22/09 10:52 PM
Dancere: We are so protected on this land, no wars here in any living generation's lives...

Sorry, but your so naive!
Have you already forgotten 9/11 -- just 8 years ago???

* * * * * * * * * * * * *And there's no 100% garantee it won't happen again -- the greatest mass murder in the US history! ! ! ! ! ! ! ******************************

We are so protected? WHO ARE YOU KIDDING??? laugh laugh laugh (yourself?!!)

no photo
Tue 12/22/09 11:01 PM

Dancere: We are so protected on this land, no wars here in any living generation's lives...

Sorry, but your so naive!
Have you already forgotten 9/11 -- just 8 years ago???

* * * * * * * * * * * * *And there's no 100% garantee it won't happen again -- the greatest mass murder in the US history! ! ! ! ! ! ! ******************************

We are so protected? WHO ARE YOU KIDDING??? laugh laugh laugh (yourself?!!)


Yes, a tragic DAY in US history, indeed!

You are trying to compare a tragic mass murder, and single day's event, to a protracted war of years on a society's homeland turf? Are you???

Please reach for the smelling salts ... You are far past kidding yourself!

The attitude you're airing makes me truly wonder ...

Perhaps more history lessons, and TIME actually spent in war torn countries would well serve here.

Then, we can compare notes ...

We can agree to disagree, I'm beyound confuddled and lost on your take ...

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