Alex....gentle Alex.

My heart goes out to you. Of all of us here you are probably the one who
has lived closest to and under this horrible conflict. I can understand
why it angers you to read the callous and ignorant and self-righteous
postings of people who comment on the conflict. It is like being
twice-victimized, first by the reality of what happened, and then again
by the attitude of people about it. My heart breaks with the pain that
I sense in your postings....

I wish I had a magic wand to heal...

Now I will say a couple of things that I know you don't want to hear,
and you know what they are, and my guess is that there is apart of you
that does want to hear them.

I beg you, please do not give in to the hatred of a people. Yes, it is
so understandable. But we are seeing in this veryt thread the
consequences.

We see unadulterated hatred of Arabs and Muslims, nominally for the acts
of a few.

We see unadulterated hatred of Germans, nominally for the acts of some
of their parents.

We see hatred of Jews, nominally for the acts of some of them.

And we were building up to an expression of hatred for Christians,
though I hope I've headed that off, nominally for the acts and beliefs
of a few.

It is easy to understand how cognitively and as you point out
psychologically we get into these traps, and it is also clear how
harmful these traps are, not just to the 'victim' group, but also to
those who hold these hatreds in their hearts.

We have seen on this thread and on several others how we have been able
to bring people back from that hatred and the rage it produces. (Lee's
intervention some weeks ago with a guy whose name I forget stands out in
my mind as an abiding masterpiece of gentle and powerful influence.)

I'll not yak on here interminably, sweet Alex, you already know all this
and much more, and many things that I am still only now starting to
learn....



Oceans

Have a great day, Fanta, and bike ride. Me, I've become partial to
roller-blading!

Ireland!!!

What a gathering we have here!

More coffee, and a croissant for me? Anybody else? A bit of plum jam
with that, maybe?



Oceans

Oh, one thought re. Xootbx's post:

The Israeli-Palestinian conflict doesn't have 'two sides' -- it has
multiple sides of course, and each has to be understood before we can
truly understand the conflict itself.

Oh, the tyranny of bipolar thinking!

Oceans

I'll definately have a croissant...much better than noodles!

Hot croissant coming up, JJ. I like mine with the ends crisp. You?

Yummy!

Oh yes Oceans! Perfect!!!

What are cafes like in China, JJ?

Here, I think of th sprawl of newspapers, sleepy-eyed, bright-eyed
people rambling in. Smiles, hugs. Laughter. The murmur of serious
conversations. Plans being made to meet later. Pigeons strutting about
on the piazza. The murmur of traffic in the background. The splashing of
a fountain with children laughing around it. The clink of crockery, the
steam fro the espresso machine. Waiters with their aprons and greetings.
The scrape of chairs as they are put out on the terrace....

I love it!

Ive seen two new sides to you today Oceans.
Sarcasam, LMAO
and a bit of a suck up to the ladies!!!

Rock on man............

Well there are no Cafes per say. They have little places...and they are
not very danitary. There is a huge problem with that here in China.
There are dogs and cats running around, on tables, in the kitchens. And
it makes you feel very incomfortable to order anything. Although I am
sure it is different on Beijing or Shang hai. But even with the 3.5
million people here, it is considered a small city....
I cook and eat at home to be safe

Ugh! Better come to Paris, JJ!

Who else is up for Paris? Near the Sorbonne, maybe? Then some strolls
around Paris, bistro lunch, and an evening at the Ste Chappelle, for a
chamber music or chorale concert?

Ummmmm....I'm getting hungry! Time for breakfast....

Oh goodness...how tempting that is...unfortunately ...I don't think
they'll let me leave the country just yet

Thanks Oceans... nice table you have set!


so may i ask you ...and i am honestly asking....

if it is inappropriate to answer i understand.

knowing what you know, how reliable do you believe the reports
to be even within said gov.'s.....huge plots were devised and
orchestrated and pawns used ,and you do know what i am talking about.
deceptions and promises and infiltration and all the intrigues of each
players secret services ....ghvbhjgdgkvyhdjhgshkjhsdgvcgh!!

so anyone here can google what they want and they will still never have
anything close to how devious the network is manufacturing all this
violence.

what can you tell me about Hariri and Hobeika?? and how this is all made
to look exactly as intended .?

and what can you tell about MOSSAD and CIA's involvement with the cover
up of war crimes committed by arial sharon. Sabra and Shatilla ,

why are they keeping him alive ? will he be bionically re-engineered ,
cryogenically preserved until technology can reawaken a monster?

how long before the info and motives underneath files [ fabricated to be
released]...on why the US allowed israel to bomb beirut over 2
soldiers....

what do you think about the HUGE gap between in authenticity and
transparency of facts and what is filtered into the mainstream of
accepted reality.

HOW IS IT POSSIBLE THAT SEAT AS IMPORTANT AS THE PRESIDENCY OF THE
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA... can be stolen and the public duped into into
keeping him there!!!

if they will do that then what will they 'not' believe??

America has been hypnotised and drugged , by the
"specialists" that define american lifestyle, that sell you a model ,
any number of models and feed them to you so you can fantasize that you
are them ..they create personalities you can relate to like rosanne and
father knows best and dennis the menace and married with children and
idols and RAMBO and gi joe and barbi and ken and seinfeld and cheers
and friends OH YEAH AND FOOTBALL and even romeo and juliet has been
rewritten and sold to you as west side story and this is what they want
you to believe...stay drugged in your little boxes while they create
collateral damage all over the planet to provide you with the gas to
keep your country manufacturing their industry...they are the
terrorists!! WAKE UP!!!

now we have all these forensic shows... so why can't we catch the bad
guys???


sheesh....it's 3:30 here ....

have 1 more patient at 5 so i can kick it witcha ...was i raving
again?????

Maybe we should set a date soemtime in the future, name a cafe, invite
everyone who has been posting here (or at least the people who like each
other!) and a few others, and do it!

I would be completely able and willing to do this...

Off to work, folks!

Later, with dreams of a gathering dancing in my head....



Oceans

Good afternoon Alex!

Whew! Alex....!

I am literally walking out the door, but will come back later and talk
with you, ok?

Quickly: what do you mean by "HOW IS IT POSSIBLE THAT SEAT AS IMPORTANT
AS THE PRESIDENCY OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA... can be stolen and
the public duped into into keeping him there!!!"

Who is 'him'? Bush, Sharon, or.... ?

I wish I could talk now.

Later!

Later, friends!


Oceans

well as for tagging them all as a race i hate.... that is not in reality
is not actual . i have many many maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaany deep and
wonderful relationships with Jews...israeli's is a different
cookie....my experience with them is that they are like the
fundamentalist christians and see reality thru the context of their
fundamental religious beliefs.

so.. thank you for your kind thoughts and understanding, i do not need
to justify my indignation , but it is there and always will be in the
face of such crimes against humanity.

i am sorry it is the people that i grew up next to, i am sorry they
turned into such butchers if they had another name i would call them
that...what name shall i identify them with ...i have seen it myself

i have my own personal footage of israeli soldiers targeting children as
they walked to school... i have/own too many stories Lawrence....tooo
many stories

hows that for a home grown pumpkin Alex and im stuffed if i know watt
that has to do with this topic

Oceans ya got one or two things wrong.

I am not nor have I ever been a Christian.

As far as water supplies. I was born and raised on a desert. I
understand water fights very well. Which is why I am curious that you
would condemn someone one for taking water from one river when someone
else planned to divert an entire river that it might not flow past a
certian point.

There is no biligerence on my part. I have some questions about what I
so far have seen as onesided comments please show me all of it not just
what has so far appeared to be a slam against only one party involved in
something that seems to be a multi Government party.

What I read on this subject has not been onesided. I have read Israelie
propaganda, Palestinian progaganda, Syrian propaganda, Jewish
propaganda, Muslim propaganda, Histories slanted to the left, histories
slanted to the right, Christian propaganda, American propaganda, I have
read university papers and British Commission findings.

AB, until you can see an insult for what it is, and apologize, I have no
interest in spending time chatting with you or trying to help you
understand the Israeli-Palestinian conflict or the 1967 occupation.